NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 12, 2009, 04:56:36 am
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I see in the news paper today, this:
Local event honors Native American heritage, culture
The Rivers, Rails and Crossroads Discovery Center will hold the second annual Native American Heritage Day on Saturday from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. to celebrate Native American Heritage Month. This event is free and open to the public.
The event includes a mini pow-wow hosted by Two Hawks Trading, a Native American group featured earlier this year on the History Channel who will perform its cultural songs, dances and storytelling. Winter Hawk Medicine Drum, a women's group of Native American musicians, will also be on-hand to perform. All performers are open for question-and-answer sessions throughout the day.
Handmade Native American crafts, such as beadwork jewelry and drums, will also be for sale. Vendor spots are still open and free of charge.
The Discovery Center plans to hosts Native American Heritage Day each year in order to highlight one of the unique local resources through art, food, history and culture of Aiken, Bamberg, Barnwell and Orangeburg counties.
Through interpretive exhibits, historical information, a gift shop of local artists and a rotating exhibit space, the Rivers, Rails and Crossroads Discovery Center of the South Carolina National Heritage Corridor shares the heritage of Aiken, Bamberg, Barnwell and Orangeburg counties.
For more information on this event or the center or to sign up as a vendor, call (803) 284-3976 or e-mail blackvilledc@scprt.com.
For more information on Winter Hawk Medicine Drum, visit www.winterhawkdrum.com.
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I found this site trying to find something on the Two Hawks Trading.. http://www.greatdreams.com/nalinks.htm It's not about Two Hawks Trading, but I thought you'd find it interesting.
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So was this posted because you want us to take a look at this drum group?
The first thing you notice is that only one of them mentions who their people are, and then it's "Cherokee but never knew it until recently." Their page explictly states that they are not related by blood "but of heart." So I suppose this group is all non-Natives except for possibly one.
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Sorry, I posted it because I am confused, to be honest. I don't know what I'm doing. I read this, and I don't know.... I thought the drum group looked twinki-ish.. I don't know about the other group.. but if they are not legit, then what history are they telling, and is something done about this?
Also, it says selling arts and crafts, I never knew there was an arts & crafts law.. if the groups putting the show on are not legit, then are the arts and crafts legit?
Does your group here do anything in regards to such events if they are not legit, or do you just research and post information on the forum here?
Thanks..
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If they are selling art and craftwork as Indian made that is not Indian made They can be in deep meadow muffins. If they ar advertising it as "Native Style". then nothing can be done.
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:'( I am sorry that anyone would think me a fraud? I am always who I say that I am , if you take the time to talk with me.
The Drum Group does not make any claim except that through our drumming and singing we want to help others to make a spiritual connecton through singing and drumming. We do not make a statement that our products we sell are native american made, although they are things that are made in native american style.
Although I do retain the right to claim my Heritage, I am not Federally or Stated Carded. But I do have 4 Cherokee Lines in my Ancestry and I am very proud of them.
I feel I have the write to answer any questions you may have about me or the Drum Group Winter Hawk Drummers. I will assure you my heart and intents are pure.
Thanks
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I have to say My heart saddens at this. I am one of the drummers and did the website for the group. Our intent is spreading the sister hood that sits on the drum and our connection with creator. If I have mis spoken on something on the site I never meant to offend anyone. I have tried to do the research for the correct wording to not offend anyone.
All I can say is this.
I am the youngest women of the ladies and I am very proud to learn and have them share with me and my children. Does not matter if it is learning to drum or to do beadwork or hear the story times. I am honored to be there to learn and to listen. Some have danced in sun dances, some have been involved for a long time. I am the newbie in this and have had a wonderful time learning, laughing and most of all sharing this wonderful time with others.
So on these humble words i state this.
Do not make judgement on us for trying to share what we love. We are not trying to step on anyone or offend anyone Honestly, what we are trying to do is show that we have love for one another and most of all respect for our hertiage.
Blessings
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I am also a member of this drum. I am Native blood line of both my parents. I am not a full blood, nor am I carded. I am just what I am. No more and no less. Because I am not carded I do not claim to sell my crafts as Native American made crafts, I sell them as Native American style crafts, my husband is carded. I have been walking the Red Road for more than 20 years and I will always continue to walk the Red Road. We as a drum do not claim to be a Native American Woman's drum, we are a woman's drum group who the people are most all if not all part Native. Our purpose is to share with others the joy of the music of the drum, the healing of the heart that the drum can give and to share with others what we have learned from the elders that have come into our lives from time to time. If anyone has any questions about me or who I am, I also will be glad to answer them.
May the sun always shine on you and keep you warm.
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I don't remember women sitting at the drum until I saw a young woman singing at the drum back in the 1980's sometime. A lot of people grumbled about this. It looked strange. I still can't get used to it but that's just me. :-\
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My take on this is there seems to be a lot of commercialism on the site. I'm not coming down on you ladies, however if you step back and take a look at things you might notice how individuals who admittedly (for the most part) are just learning about their heritage suddenly make the jump to performing for others and also making money off of the whole venture (selling crafts and services). When you put yourselves out there in that way you're gonna get judged harshly. The site is inundated with products for sale and unfortunately contains a lot of gross generalizations and Tonto speak.
I've been around people my entire life who didn't speak English first, (my generation is the first in that regard) but I've never heard anyone talk the way you all type online. From my point of view...it's kinda insulting, my community is full of great thinkers and intelligent individuals..and when they speak English...they sound that way.
A little reflection about where everyone is in life (regardless of age) and being a little more true to self might go a long way. Nobody would discourage you from being proud of your heritage, but being proud doesn't mean you gotta sell crafts and be part of a travelling show. Once the price tag gets put on things you go down a very dangerous road....it's one that's easy to get lost on...unfortunately it IS the way frauds become frauds. I'm not calling you that, but I've seen it before...I wish nothing but good things for you and I hope you're reading these words with an open mind.
I've said it many times before on here....learn about the communities your ancestors come from...how they were when your ancestors were connected and how they are now...and if you REALLY wanna learn something. Learn the language. You'll never learn how your ancestors thought of things if you don't learn the language they spoke. You'll never get the humor they had, the REAL meaning of the music and dances and everything else until you go down that road. Once you've begun THAT journey...you may look at yourselves, at this place now, and understand you really had a lot to learn first.
Superdog
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If you look at the comments no one called anything even slightly close to frauds. You were placed under Research Needed. And I originally questioned why you were even placed on here. I thought initially this subject might even be placed under Etcetera.
The people we place under Frauds are sometimes the worst of the worst. Not you. You are people still learning who maybe have not yet learned as much as you think you know. For example your talk of "spreading the sisterhood." NDNs generally aren't evangelical unless they're Christian, and even then not always. And the way all of you but one keep referring to yourselves as generically "Native." Usually NDNs ID by their specific people.
Plus all of SD's points. I certainly don't want to discourage you from connecting and learning about your heritage either, just think you should rethink a few things.
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Osiyo, and Wado
for all of your comments,To the administrators of this group I know that you did not say we were a fraud. Boy I never knew that my labor of Love and Support would ever end up here. I have been walking this path for a long, long time. During that time I have heard the words twinkie, wanna be, and it rings and hurts in my heart more than in my ears. First I learned to walk in right relationship with my Creator. Then I learned to walk the very best I could with my family and friends.
If I learned correctly Cherokee are of the Matrilineal kinship and that while the men were away the women were left behind to take care of the encampment,they sang,worked and had a very close relationship. Well that was long ago and now we live in a hard modern world.One of which a lot of our values and family closeness is gone. I did not have the opporunity to be raised in my Cherokee Heritage that I can remember. I do love to sit at the feet of those who have and learn and hear all that they have to share. For those that do they are most blessed. All of your words are helpfull and beleive me they are taken to heart. In truth I can not say where the Drum Group will end up. Maybe after these words it will disband for It is not my intent to place any of these women,my sisters in any shadows, for their walk is their and it is honorable. To the administrators of this forum I say Wado, for allowing us to have a place and time to have our say. Wado for all others who gave us words of encouragment and words of Wisdom.
again
Wado
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Super dog & outlaw
Thank you for the words they do make sense in many ways. One of the reasons is for the products is several of the elder ladies have no spouse and very limited income so the products help pay for gas... But I do see your point. We do not charge any fee to go to events. Times are hard and believe me if we did not have to do this and if I had the money we would not! We have gone to areas up 250 miles away that we were asked to come to. And when you have as many in the group and spread out as far as we do it is hard. It was my idea to post the items to help pay for the gas…… Now I am re- thinking this (thank you)
I do know many and have met many that jump into something they do not understand or respect. Our intentions are not to disrespect but to show respect to all. We understand people do not agree with women on the drum and know it was not traditional. We try to explain this but many do understand and see our view. Once those see us on the drum.. they see the love and laughter and the connection we have, then come and say it is good to see smiles and love between you. We do have several men that do sit behind us supporting our time as we do sit on the drum. It is an honor to have those support us. They do this to help show balance and support us for the journey we have chosen. As I stated many in the group have been on this journey for a long time. Most of these women are 60+ only three of us are 50 and 40's (and lil bit our youngest)
I know my personal experience has been very hard till meeting up with these women. It is hard to find someone with true intentions and not greed or ego to share with me. All these women have is love and laughter and share their knowledge in many lessons. Along with the fact that I have a fair skin daughter and most would say wannabe. I understand you have to prove your place of learning and respect, I have no problem with this but many places that I have went to, to try to learn my heritage would never give the time of day. My husband and I both have native blood his aunt is a full blood Cherokee and is not carded but she walks a humble path; she lives on other side of states so it is hard to learn from her. (Believe me; even thought I am not a city person I would move if I could to learn from her) As a child I was honored to learn up to the age of 10 but never knew the lessons were of the Cherokee it was just grandma showing me those herbs and talking to the trees. I have three lines of Cherokee and Chickasaw. So yes I am much honored that these ladies take time out of their schedule and share.
My husband said something "this post was done 4 days before the event in Blackville" if Critter lived in the area; I wish she would have come and met us. I know she would have been greeted with a warm smile and a thank you for coming to share with us. So I ask please critter come and join us next time. You will be greeted as the same along with a thank you for we all are students in life, and we never can learn enough.
Superdog you said” I've been around people my entire life who didn't speak English first, (my generation is the first in that regard) but I've never heard anyone talk the way you all type online. From my point of view...it's kinda insulting, my community is full of great thinkers and intelligent individuals..and when they speak English...they sound that way.”
I apologize if I was insulting I never meant for this. I guess my excitement over runs my mouth. I was so heart stricken when I found us on here that my fingers did the typing and should have reread. I was shown this site before by a lady,,, well lets say after my own research on the site I also see your intentions of helping the public. Not what she had shown me or said….
And a happy note that these ladies are sharing the Cherokee language, we have two that know the language but have lost a lot of it for not being around others that speak Cherokee. They share what they can. But I am happy to learn what I can and have met others through them that are also sharing.
I may sound aggressive…sorry… I do not mean so. I am not good with words… but I can say thank you, you have given us much to think of. And will be discussed at our next meeting. I also am sorry for the rambling if it has came across as such but I felt to disclose my personal journey to show, that I have been trying to learn and understand.
Thank you for your time and your words.
And no we do not take them lightly, we take them to hear what all have to say.
As my grandmother would say
“Listen and be quiet even the smallest sounds have message to hear.”
So thank you and blessings,
Note as I was writing this I see my adopted mother “rena” Has posted a comment. And say THIS TO HER!
MOM WE ARE A FAMILY! We will always have things said for we knew this starting the group. We are an Intertribal group learning lessons from all that we come in contact with. And sharing what we do know with others. Our hearts are pure!
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Critter thanks for the post.
Critter said
I see in the news paper today, this:
Local event honors Native American heritage, culture
The Rivers, Rails and Crossroads Discovery Center will hold the second annual Native American Heritage Day on Saturday from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. to celebrate Native American Heritage Month. This event is free and open to the public.
The event includes a mini pow-wow hosted by Two Hawks Trading, a Native American group featured earlier this year on the History Channel who will perform its cultural songs, dances and storytelling. Winter Hawk Medicine Drum, a women's group of Native American musicians, will also be on-hand to perform. All performers are open for question-and-answer sessions throughout the day.
Handmade Native American crafts, such as beadwork jewelry and drums, will also be for sale. Vendor spots are still open and free of charge.
The Discovery Center plans to hosts Native American Heritage Day each year in order to highlight one of the unique local resources through art, food, history and culture of Aiken, Bamberg, Barnwell and Orangeburg counties.
Through interpretive exhibits, historical information, a gift shop of local artists and a rotating exhibit space, the Rivers, Rails and Crossroads Discovery Center of the South Carolina National Heritage Corridor shares the heritage of Aiken, Bamberg, Barnwell and Orangeburg counties.
Well, I looked at their site, and there is not much mentioned about their people belonging to a particular tribe. I couple of them mention they have Cherokee heritage. Now, if they are out in the public doing teachings about “Cherokee Culture, History, or Tradiaions,” then they have no right to do so.
Critter, if you come across groups that you suspect are doing teachings on Cherokee culture to the public claiming to be cherokee, and your not sure if they are legit or not, you can email <tribalrecognition@cherokee.org>, and ask someone to look into it.
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Handmade Native American crafts, such as beadwork jewelry and drums, will also be for sale. Vendor spots are still open and free of charge.
Also, it says selling arts and crafts, I never knew there was an arts & crafts law.. if the groups putting the show on are not legit, then are the arts and crafts legit?
http://www.doi.gov/iacb/file.html (http://www.doi.gov/iacb/file.html)
You can report violations here. Just because the group is not legt, doesn't mean nesasarily that they are selling fake Native Arts and Crafts. They may sell the work of enrolled members of Federally Recognized Tribes. But after looking over their site, I really doubt this is the case.
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Rena said
Osiyo, and Wado
for all of your comments,To the administrators of this group I know that you did not say we were a fraud. Boy I never knew that my labor of Love and Support would ever end up here. I have been walking this path for a long, long time. During that time I have heard the words twinkie, wanna be, and it rings and hurts in my heart more than in my ears. First I learned to walk in right relationship with my Creator. Then I learned to walk the very best I could with my family and friends.
If I learned correctly Cherokee are of the Matrilineal kinship and that while the men were away the women were left behind to take care of the encampment,they sang,worked and had a very close relationship. Well that was long ago and now we live in a hard modern world.One of which a lot of our values and family closeness is gone. I did not have the opporunity to be raised in my Cherokee Heritage that I can remember.
Rena, You say you have not had the opprutunity to be raised in your Cherokee Heritage? Thats very obvious after seeing the site. With this said, and after looking over your website, I'm a bit confused??? There's absolutely NOTHING that I see on you website that would lead me to beleive that you and your group know much if anything about Cherokee Culture and Traditions. So besides the few people that claim Cherokee? what Tribes is everyone else representing? Also, there is no generic American Indian Culture. If your claiming Cherokee, then at least try to act like one.
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Also, I've never seen Cherkoee women in my life sit at a Drum like that? And from what I know most of the Plains Tribes don't allow women to sit at a drum. I could be wrong about this, but I always thought with powwow style drumming, women usually sit behind the drum such as for singing.
And if your women are representing a Tribe that does have women who tradionally play the drum on powwow style drums, then what tribe might that be?
If your claiming to be American Indian, then I see a problem with the misrepresentation here. You might not fall under the catagory of exploiter, but it probalby falls under the catagory of " typical wannabee mispreresentation of American Indians". However, if your just claiming to be white women who are drumming, then I don't see it as a problem. So, who are the Winter Hawk Drummers claiming to be?
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Taken from Indain Country News....
Drum is healing for Women Society Singers
User Rating: / 3
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Pow Wow Circuit Directory for Indian Country - Pow Wow News
By Susanne Nadeau
Grand Forks, North Dakota (AP) 4-08
The drum, says Jermaine Tremmel, is our nation’s heartbeat.
And it becomes a health line for women who have lost their way because of alcohol or drug abuse, said Tremmel, a Lakota from Standing Rock reservation.
Tremmel said she and sister, Sharon Big Bird Mountain – two members of an all female American Indian drum group called Red Drum Women Society Singers – got into the traditionally male-dominated role of drumming after four years of prayer at Bear Butte near Sturgis, S.D., a place of spiritual import for American Indian tribes. Dreams led the sisters to believe drumming would help them heal women.
“If our women fall, if our women don’t make it, our nations won’t survive,” Tremmel said.
Tremmel and Big Bird Mountain performed a welcoming song at the University of North Dakota Memorial Ballroom April 22.
The original Red Drum Women Society Singers began with forlorn female children, left by their parents at the home Tremmel and Mountain shared. Drumming became a way to reach the children and help them become successful, Tremmel said.
Tremmel said there are more than 280 members in their drum society – which means a large group of men or women with a common goal. Some of those women have stayed, but many have moved on after finding spiritual or physical healing, Tremmel said.
Amber Annis, president of UND’s Indian Studies Association, said she hadn’t heard of a woman seated at the drum before planning for the Time-Out week, held each year at UND. This year’s theme was “Honoring Women.”
“Culture always changes. It’s controversial, and it’s something I think is pretty interesting,” Annis said.
The sisters recognize the twist of tradition among American Indian roles and contemporary female roles creates controversy.
“We’ve been ostracized, banished at (some) powwows,” Tremmel said. “And now they have this thing that says ‘invited drums only.’ “
Basically, the women drummers are not wanted at powwows because they break tradition, but they are making headway – some female groups are invited and do drum at some powwows.
Greg Gagnon, an associate professor of Indian Studies at UND, said female drum groups are comparable to women seeking positions as priests in the Roman Catholic religion. It’s a break from long-held tradition and values.
Drumming is not the “role traditionally prescribed for women,” he said, in particular, the kind of drum Mountain and Tremmel use, which is about 2 1/2 feet around and placed on wooden platforms between them. In some tribes, women have used hand drums.
Men usually are seated in a circle around that drum, while women stand around the outside of the circle and sing, Gagnon said.
Women who are moving into traditionally male roles are facing resistance to that change, Gagnon said. “It’s kind of like heresy,” he said.
A tobacco offering was laid out along the smooth buffalo hide surface of the drum at center stage, and the tangy scent of burning sweet grass filled the air before the women sang at UND last Tuesday afternoon. Their voices melded together, each taking turns to lift above the other.
Women have filled that space around the drum before, Tremmel said. But it’s always been in a private setting.
“Our men’s roles have diminished; our women’s roles have diminished. Both have adapted, they are resilient. Our ways have changed,” she said. “We need to find our place again.”
The goal of the drum group is not to usurp men from that role, Tremmel said.
“We don’t compete against our men; we are equals with our men,” she said. “This drum is about women healing.”