Author Topic: Native Spirituality  (Read 12710 times)

Offline debbieredbear

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Native Spirituality
« on: April 13, 2007, 05:41:30 pm »
Sent by a friend (no, he didn't write it):

"Spirituality is not religion to Indians. Religion is not an Indian concept, it is a non Indian word, with implications of things that end badly, like wars in the name of individuals God's and so on. Indians do not ask what religion another Indian is, because they already know the answer. To an Indian, spirituality is about the Creator and it is personal."

Seeking knowledge is a good thing - if it is done for the right reasons and in the right way. For those seeking knowledge of Native American Spirituality, it is not something you can do casually or occasionaly. That is the white man's way - to go to church on Sunday and forget about it the rest of the week. Native American spirituality is not a religion. It is a way of life. You live this way 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

Native American Spirituality comes from within. The white man has many ways of justifying the things he does against his religion. He can even quote out of his holy book reasons for doing it - but he does so selectively and creatively when it is for his own ends. Native Americans can not do such. Our spirituality comes from within and we can not forget it or pretend it is anything other than what it is.

If a white man tells you he is a Christian, chances are pretty good he isn't. I have known a few white people who didn't have to tell me they were Christians. Thier life spoke for them. There are not many, but there are a few. There are a great many who will tell us their life speaks for them but it doesn't.

If someone wants to charge money for "teaching" you Native American Spirituality, they are not true teachers, they are not of our people. Like the land, the knowledge of the people can not be owned, can not be bought and sold. It is the way of the White Man to own what is not his to own, to sell what is not his to sell, to corupt it. It is not the way of the people.

It is customary to offer a gift of the earth or the hands to a teacher.

If someone tells you "Native Americans believe this . . ." they are not of the People. The Chahta believe one thing, the Lakota another and the Dine another. There are many common threads woven into the fabric of our spirituality, but each is different just as our cultures are different. Our spirituality is based upon the Earth, the world in which we live. The Chahta, the Lakota and Dine each live in a place very different than the other.

I have nothing against people who practice shamanism, paganism, wicca or new age things. If it is what they sincerely believe and it works for them and they can live their beliefs, then good for them. But do not identify it in anyway as being Native American Spirituality. It isn't. You can not be just a little Native American or New Age-Native American. It is false. Native American Spirituality is a way of life. It can not be redefined at the whim of some wannabe whose spirit can not touch the Earth, can not hear the ancestors. Like so many Christians, you will find yourself having to tell people what you are because they will not recognize it.

One can not become "Native American". You are what you are. You can become spiritual in the way of Native Americans. It requires some guidance, much introspection and much observation. It is hard work to get there but the way is open to all who have the will to travel it. For me, I would have it no other way. I was taught by my grandfather and uncles to respect the ancestors and to listen to them, to touch the earth and listen to her, to respect my elders and their knowledge.

You will have some of your cultural mores challenged. You can not just walk in and say "Here I am. Teach me to be Native American." For one thing, when I say I am Native American, that is like someone saying they are European. It is a very broad, general term. That is why I always say that I am of the Chahta Nation. Beliefs and practices will vary from tribe to tribe. Even within a tribe, there may be some differences between clans, villages or groups. For instance, the Chahta have six distinct groups. The Oklahoma Chahta, the Mississippi Chahta, 2 different groups in Alabama, another in Florida and yet another that went into Mexico via Texas.

If you are one of those who have the romanticized, anglicized vision of the Native American, then you must either be able to let go of it or walk away. That is not what we are. I see the "art" of what is supposed to be a Native American woman by those who have this romanticized view of us. It would be appropriate for the cover of what my wife calls "horny romance novels". It may or not be good art. I do not know. I am not an art critic. Such pictures are not representative of the way of the Native Americans.

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Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 07:17:32 pm »
Tansi;

When I was a child, I asked my father about the difference between white religion and Native religion.

He told me that in the white ways of religion, there was a book with 10 rules in it and breaking any of these was called Sin and would result in going to Hell.  He said that you had to go to another human being, to find out what could be done, since the same book had thousands of pages on either side of these 10 rules, that told how each and every one of these rules could be broken, in God's name.  He said that white man religion was invented by man and interpreted and controlled by man.  He told me that he had gone to a school, which was run by people who claimed to be religious, but was abused by these same people, presumably in the name of their God.

He then spoke of Native ways and told me that these were Spiritual, not religious.  He said that Spirituality is in everything, the land, skies, waters, plants, animals, fish, insects and even people.  He said that everything is alive and that is why we must learn about Respect.  He said that, if I Respect all Life, that I would not offend anyone and would likely learn more about Spirituality.  Spirituality, to him, was a very personal thing which could be shared with others, even when they had different ideas of Spirituality.  He spoke of being able to learn from other Spiritually minded people, simply by showing them Respect and not expecting them to adopt our own Spiritual path.  He said that I would be able to learn from Nature, especially if I Respected all Life. 

Most importantly, to me, was when he told me that my entire Life was a Spiritual path and anytime I remembered this, I could call it Prayer, which he explained was a conciousness of a Higher Power.

Ekosi
Ric


Offline plz

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2007, 08:43:18 pm »
As a recovering Catholic, recovering drunk and recovered nuager I just wanted to thank you both, Deb and Ric, for taking the time to post these two wonderful entries.

AA was my first introduction to the idea of spirituality as opposed to religion... it took time to 'get it' for me.

I don't know where it came from, but my belief for the past 25 yrs has been: the problem with the world in general is the lack of respect.  For all things.

I always appreciate your individual postings, but these were particularly poignant to me personally.  Thanks again.

pattyz

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 11:04:12 pm »
That is the nuage way: no respect for anything. That is my opinion, anyway. And Patty, you will understand this, I think: 12-20-73. That's when my new life began.

Laurel

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 10:06:20 am »
 :)  Nice round number for me:  January 1, 1994.  The only New Year's resolution I ever made, and it stuck.


Offline plz

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 03:45:21 pm »
I've thought of putting this in post of it's own a few weeks ago, but it seemed fairly trivial:

A big part of the reason I attended that first 'seminar on Native American Spirituality' by Ed McGaa was to "honor" it. 

I'd been carrying lots of free roaming guilt about everything that happened here on US soil since Columbus landed.  And personally, about the fact that a GGG-grampa had stolen gold from the black hills in SD.  Well, no one in my fam put it that way...  but trying to confirm all that he'd written, I did an enormous amount of research.  And I learned and it made me sick in my soul.

Over the years I have also become uncomfortably aware that I'm not as unique as I would like to believe... so I am wondering if this 'guilt' can be a driving force for many others who enter into 'honoring',  that in reality is just more rape and pillage?

Depending on who is doing the 'teaching', one can be told that it was prophecy to 'pass on' Native ways to others.  As I was told.  So, it seemed right and 'ok'.  What follows is a feeling of propriety and thus the defensiveness when confronted that it's wrong!

I experienced this myself, as I've written before.  It was a real eye opener seeing/hearing these 'spiritual' people screaming at my Rosebud friend to 'get out' of their ceremony shortly after their huge welcome to a 'REAL Indian'!   Ridiculous and laughable and pathetic.  And scary, too, to think of what they were spreading...

So, I don't know if this has been discussed before and wanted to ask if line of thought might be explanitory in more cases than just my own experience?  Guilt=urge to relieve by 'honoring'+teaching=propriety=defensiveness=relief of the original guilt!

One more thought:   all of us come from a long ago line of others who did revere all of nature, before man invented religion.  I think much of the nuage stuff comes from this inner yearning/forgotton yet there desire to 're-connect'.  Unfortunately, we also follow the easiest course... if someone offers an unbroken line of this knowledge in a package we can buy, well hell!  How easy is that?  <<enter big sigh here>>>

With much appreciation for this site, the people,  and the hard work it ALL involves,

pattyz
(2-26-80 when I became a friend of Bill W.)

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 10:56:48 pm »
I will have to ponder your questions for a bit myself. But this, was not a surprise to me:
Quote
I experienced this myself, as I've written before.  It was a real eye opener seeing/hearing these 'spiritual' people screaming at my Rosebud friend to 'get out' of their ceremony shortly after their huge welcome to a 'REAL Indian'!   Ridiculous and laughable and pathetic.  And scary, too, to think of what they were spreading...

I had a Dakota friend who went to a group near Seattle where the "spiritual leader" who claimed to be Lakota (but probably wasn't) came unglued when she showed up. Changed the evenings "teachings" to storytelling. Followed her outsideand demanded to now "who sent her" before telling her not to come back. She wasn't out to make trouble. She had been invited by a friend. Same thing happened to her when "Dawn Songfeather Davies" had a "sacred pipe workshop and ceremony." She was kicked out again. She thought it was funny that they were so threatened by her when she had made no judgements against them.

Offline plz

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 02:22:57 pm »
In an attempt to be brief, as I think I'm highjacking this thread, I skipped a few things:

In a previous gathering, the comment was "if we only had a real Indian come talk to us"...  And this was from the first 'rainbow tribe' people being 'taught' by McGaa!  And yes, I was one of them early on.

My new Rosebud friend had explained the travesty of using the pipe, doing 'ceremony'; he 're-taught' me actually.

So, we decided to attend one of their 'ceremonies' so he could share this side of the issue.

On our entry, he was very warmly recieved and the whole group begged him to drum and sing for them, which he did.  Resulting in more accolades...

In the following 'circle of prayer' when it was my turn, I spoke my piece.  Very emotionally said I would no longer be part of all this theft and handed over a pipe I'd bought at Pipestone to my friend. 

Then he spoke, in no uncertain terms.  I think the phrase: 'You're wrong' is the one that pushed them over the edge.  It was like a detonation!

I spent the better part of yesterday thinking someone should take me out back and shoot me for the inept, possibly insulting way I expressed myself in the previous post.  I do sincerely apologize if this happened.

patty

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 05:22:08 pm »
There was another person in this group that was part of McGaa's group. She posted some stuff and he is not a very nice person from the things she has said.

As for the experiencre you and your friend had, I find it typical of nuage people. They really really do NOT want to hear the truth. Only validation that they are doing right. I think that, deep inside, some of them know they are wrong. But so many fight tooth and nail to keep their version of things. One of my friends has lost friendships that she had for years, when trying to tell them that their "guru" is full of bs.

I didn't consider your posting inept.

Offline plz

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 03:11:52 pm »
There was another person in this group that was part of McGaa's group. She posted some stuff and he is not a very nice person from the things she has said.

I haven't seen any other personal reference's.  I've been onboard here for a few yrs now.  What I refer to happened in 1989-90.  Ed is 71 yrs old now, with a newest book "Crazy Horse & Chief Red Cloud..."  Looked to me like he's perhaps distancing himself from the 'guru' image.  Which he always denied being in his talks!

Deb:"... I find it typical of nuage people. They really really do NOT want to hear the truth. Only validation that they are doing right. I think that, deep inside, some of them know they are wrong. ..."


You know, this makes some kind of weird sense to me when put into the motiviating guilt/guilt relief scenario.  When confronted and told they're WRONG the initial guilt is resurrected and they can't deal with that.  Like they've found 'salvation' and now someone wants to take that away...  So sad that long time friends are lost because of it all.

Thank you, Debbie.

patty

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 04:02:06 pm »
I am glad to hear that McGaa may be distancing himself from the guru image. He was out here about 2 years ago. Spomsored by the followers of Roy Wilson (Barf). A friend was invited so she went. She said that Roy's group drummed for McGaa and that she could see that McGaa was "biting his cheeks to keep from laughing." It was pretty pathetic. I guess. He said he would come back the following november, but never did. Maybe experiences like that made him see what he had created.

The sad thing is most of Roy's followers are nice people who have been taken in by a real charlatan. AND the local church sponsors that crap in an attempt to "bring the Native and Christian together." This is on a reservation and there are plenty of NDN Christians here. But does the church reach out to them? Heck no, they go with the "shaman", who is really an ex-minister who may have fraudulently enrolled in a real tribe. sigh. And the minister wants toi hear NONE of this because he wants the fantasy.

Offline plz

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2007, 02:24:17 pm »
Humans are the only ones in creation that try to be something that they are not.  We'd all laugh at a cat trying to fly like a bird, wouldn't we? 

There are many times I hope that I will live long enough to SEE the justice when 'what goes around, comes around' in a situation... because I believe that is true.  But, even if I don't see it, I have faith that it will happen anyway.  Sometimes, that's the only way I can 'deal' with the travesties of humankind.  What you've said about RW and the good people who have been duped is a prime example...


frederica

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Re: Native Spirituality
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2007, 08:06:59 pm »
Humans are the only ones in creation that try to be something that they are not.  We'd all laugh at a cat trying to fly like a bird, wouldn't we? 


Here is an old legend: Men and animals ganged up on the grandfather of all monsters; they scattered his brains and each took some. The monster's brains contained all qualities, and the men and animals scrambled carelessly for their share; thus the animals came up with some strange attributes, and men having gotten a mixture of all, are changeable.     frederica