Author Topic: Exploitation and Abuse of Sweat Lodge Ceremonies. Inspired by previous posts.  (Read 13181 times)

Offline Jamie Hume

  • Posts: 18
Greetings from Alberta.

I was just given the address of this site by a dear friend this morning.

I want to make a comment regarding sweatlodge issues.

If you are asked to pay a fee don't go in. That does not pertain to things like brining tobacco and traditional items that may be honourably presented.

I understand that in Europe, wood has to be purchased. Donations of wood or money to go towards something like wood, spontainously handing an elder a twenty dollar bill for gas money or groceries...all this is alright and from the heart. Sometimes people do not realize the amount of time and effort that goes into preparing and following through on a sweat lodge cereominy. Help is appreciated and often needed! A fee though, is exploitation.

All forms of spirituality and 'religion' are vulnerable to human weakness! All of them! It is up to everyone who carries these ways regardless of lineage, to do their utmost to do so with a good heart, good spirit, integrity and appreciation...with genuine not fained humility.

It is up to all individuals seeking, to be dicerning. Use common sense! Don't just jump at the the chance to go to a seat because you have not had the chance in the past. If you pray hard, and are true, the right moment will come.

When I was younger, I had wanted very badly to be allowed to go to a sweat. I did not push or insist! I looked and listened, asked questions...learned how to ask the questions, asked the Divine, the Creator, the ones that serve the Creator.

Eventually, at a gathering I was attending, it was announced that sweats would be held. A special sweat for those with no Native ancestry was announced and I was urged strongly to go in.

I knew by instinct, by teachings, by my own values that a sweat lodge ceremoniy was about being a human being. I knew because i had listened, becaause I had waited. I respectfully declined. i am grateful to this day that i did not go in.

I waited again a long time before I had another invitation. I entered the sweat this time. I was told to go in; I was not charged money, I was not asked to do anything that was bed for me, I was safe, I was home and I knew it. I knew it was real and I was grateful and I was humbled.

I know there are things going on that are wrong. I pray for everyone. we are not perfect human beings. One daythings will be better than they are now. the Creator is watching. the grandfathers are watching.

I pray for peace, awareness, well being, healing and the awakening of humanity.

I don't know what all these threats are about. this is sad. This way is a great gift to be cherished. I don't know where all of you stand or all the issues that you have been discussing. It was one particular
individual and their actions that I was directed to look at that brought me to this site today.

This is someone I know personally. This person will have to come to terms with his actions. the Creator will deal with him. Some things seem to take a long time in our terms. It is hard to go through this. There is his side of the story as well. This is very sad and very hard!

I am so sorry for those who have been exploited or harmed! YOu are in my prayers.

The place where this individual has recieved his authority is suffering with you. I am suffering with you. Please disassociate persoans working in this manner abusing sacred ceremonies...from their teachers and their communities. this will pass. There is hope for everyone. This is a transitional period of great grief.

Have faith that things will get better. Pray hard.

Peace.

Jamie

Offline sapa

  • Posts: 35
 A'ho Jamie Your comments sounds like you are very cautious and easily ready and able to pick up on exploitive ceremonies and people.   My Name is Wamble and I pray in the
wiwanyang wacipi(sundance) every year on my reservation  most of the people on the "Rez" know, what, who, where and why and there are some that participate also. My point is that yes, there are variations of how the sweats are run by different tribal people   there are are also blatanly abuse of these ceremonies . unfortunatly are caused by our own people in large  ready to make a substantial amount of $----
 It is because the non-Indians seek out so called Shamans off the "Rez" I mean they give them the "Red Carpet" treatment travel expensee (exsorbant), Food ,Hotel, material gifts Blankets etc, and a large donation, so they can have a so called real Indian endorse their sweat. After a few times the Non-Indians stop calling the rez and already start to run it themselves  very often by a self proclaimed Shaman (Indians don't use the word shaman) in the group over the years they so called become their own authority also maintaining that position of power and money. Please don't get wrong I am not directly attacking our people just a statment of fact.
 So again  my Kola Thank you for you thoughts on the Inipi
Wamble57@Gmail.com












aslong as the non- Indians keep fianacial

Offline Jamie Hume

  • Posts: 18
Hello Wamble.

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate that information. Thank you for sharing. Please keep in touch.

Footnote. I am non-native just in case anyone was not sure.

I am personally taking this all one person at a time. I have known of people of different lineages 'both' Native and Non-native, that have abused these ways....I also can say exactly the same of those who 'have' carried them and continued on carrying them with love, devotion, respect and humility. So I personally am speaking to ethical behavior verses abuse not lineage. I actually know one German, a dear friend and fellow Sundancer, who is hard core old school. Believe me, she is a defender with a blazing heart that honours us all.

I first Sundanced and became a pipe carrier when I was in between having my children in the early 1990's. I have never gone out to 'cash in' on what I have learned. It is my persoanl spiritual path.

If people want to become lecturers or give workshops on general philosophy to bring awareness to First Nations Cultures, issues and history that is fine. But I personally hate the other stuff. People like me who are sincere and dedicated to this way that are not First Nations lineage take a lot of crap because of these people that exploit it.

I am not the type of person to just sit around and complain, I really strive to do my best and " be the change (I) you want to see in the world" Gahndi quote.

Be the real thing or just foreget it and move on!!!! Oh, I am not a wanna be. Not unless it is a wanna be me wanna be! I love my ancestors and am very interested in their spiritual beliefs. Sadly, the inquisition really took a toll on us. A very ugly genocide, all genocide is evil. Much information is still hidden by churches and misunderstood by academics. So, I returned to earth based religion through the kindness of First Nations teachers and I will always honour both my lineage and my teachers and their lineages. al of them. besides, I have my dreams, messages and visions to pay attention to as well.

I am a fusion cook, an eclectic visual artist, I write a  bit...no books exploiting this journey...Buddhist, Pagan, Pantheist, sometimes I think like a critical Athiest...but I do not mix ceremonies! The mix is 'within' as part of my personal experience and evolution. Perhaps it is part of the process of filling in the gaps of what was lost from my own linegae teachings I am not sure. But I do know that I am a better person for it! I am more me now than I was yesterday...smile.There is a humourous side.

Anyway. I just wanted to add...Wamble knows this obviously, this is for those who do not know. You recieve authority for these ceremonies through being part of the real thing, not in workshops or how to shops or through wierd second hand or adapted faux teachings! If, you ever recieve it at all. If 'everyone' went by this and honoured its importance, there would be few abuses.

Who are these people in Australia with the massive number of sweats..I need to read all this...it's just I get so upset I have to get up from the computor and take a break.

Peace people!


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Hi Jamie Welcome  !

The protection of ceremonies gets talked about a lot here , as I am sure you have noticed ...

I'm sorry to hear that someone you have been close to is abusing Ceremonies . I've also had to deal with finding out someone I had been close to was exploiting the Sacred , and it really hurt . It' is such a betrayal .
 
I really appreciate that you aren't just going into denial and defending the person who has become an exploiter .
So often when people learn someone they care for is exploiting ceremonies , rather than defending the integrity of these traditions , they defend the exploiter and their relationship with the exploiter .

Personally , from what I have seen , I have come to think that sharing traditional ceremonies outside of the balance provided by a traditional community usually creates a lot more problems than good .

I am glad to hear you know of non native people who have the courage to stand up for what's right .  If these people were not such a minority , maybe there wouldn't be so many problems , and the many Native communities which have decided to exclude non native people would never have been forced into this position .

One of the problems I see come up over and over  , is ,  in every instance I have seen when this abuse of ceremonies happens outside a Native community , it is the exploiter and not the integrity of the traditions
which gets defended . I have yet to see the non native followers of a so called Native medicine person who gets off track , have the confidence , integrity and commitment to confront the person and say what they are doing is wrong . The problem seems to be that non native people think maintaining a good relationship with the so called medicine person is more important than maintaining the culture in a good way .

I think willingness to accept abuse and accomadate exploiters ,  is something that happens because people don't have deep enough roots , support and commitments within a Native community , to keep what is important in perspective . 

Over the years , I have heard of a few good Elders who decided to open their ceremonies to people from all Nations . I think some of them sincerly meant well , but having seen the results of this over several decades , and having seen things go off the rails in so many ways, I have come to believe these traditions only work properly when kept in the context of the deeply rooted knowledgeable community where they originated .

When the traditions get removed from this context , as they do when people start "sharing" ceremonies with people in Europe , I see the same problems over and over.

Like you say , people are human. Even if they say "don't put me up on a pedastle " if they go over to Europe to lead Ceremonies that is exactly where they are going to end up .  Like Sapa says , these people get the "red carpet treatment" . With no community that knows enough to get skeptical an give culturally appropriate feed back , even the best intentioned Elders tend to get warped over time . 

And often the people who seek out non native followers don't have the best intentions . From what I've seen , at least 1/2 of the Native people that seek out a non native following, do so because no one in their own tribe wants anything to do with them , and it is only in a non native community that doesn't know any better that they can get attention and pass themselves off as "medicine people". Many of these people are so unhealthy ,they are actually dangerous . I have heard many first hand accounts of  both physical violence and sexual abuse .

How I see it is many indigenous people recognized and respected the connection between the ordinary and the Sacred, but people can't find that core of Sacredness by imitating traditions based on the ordinary experiences of another culture . It doesn't work . The Lakota trying to practice the Ceremonies of the Hopi , or the Makah whalers ,  would be just pointless as European's practicing Lakota ceremonies .   

I can see learning about basic traditional values and morals , is something that people living in other cultures might find inspiring , but , from what I have seen , the Ceremonies need to be maintained within the communities where they originated, to stay healthy .

I know there is different opinions on this and controversies , and even if we have a different understanding of this  I really appreciate that you seem willing to put the general long term health of the culture first . I generally agree with and support anyone who is able to recognize that !   
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 03:41:35 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline earthw7

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Thank you Moma_porcupine for your words here:

I can see learning about basic traditional values and morals , is something that people living in other cultures might find inspiring , but , from what I have seen , the Ceremonies need to be maintained within the communities where they originated, to stay healthy .

It is what I believe too living on the reservation. We have been closing our ceremonies to non-Native now. In fact will be closing them off to men who marry non-Native or women who marry non-native.
If the man or woman died then these people tend to become to experts in our ways.
In Spirit

Offline Jamie Hume

  • Posts: 18
Well that was interesting. "Experts in our ways"...hmmm. Did I say I was an expert? No. Earth, that is the easy answer and if you have to do that you have to do that. I always took the approach that if the door was half open, the place didn't meet my spiritual standards of being human and being one. So for that reason, I don't belong in situations like that and I don't want to be involved in anything that is like that. No offence. I respectfully step away from that entirely!

You do realize what hurtful remarks those are don't you Earth?I take the time to deal with people as individuals It's the long hard road I know, but that is who I am.
My belief and how I walk is that when you love someone and you have done what you can to be together and grown together, yah, you protect what you have grown and you share it. I thought that was about being family. When someone entrusts something like love and ceremony to you especially after historical betrayels like we are dealing with, you protect it.You have your sense of family and commitment and I have mine. Peace!

As for protecting First Nations spirituality specifaclly, ultimatly it is First Nations spiritual leaders and elders that make those decisions. I respect that. But I go by what my husband wanted in that arena, he worked very hard to do this right. He had his vision and he honoured it despite all odds!

Moma? There is a fine line here. I personally feel that being destructive is not a good way to go. Unconditional love is sometimes tough love but love non-the less. There is a point in all this where people need to be accepted as natural human beings.
I agree with a lot of what you have said here. However, not everything. I know how personal these ways have been for me and several other non-natives. How we have connected to this branch of the tree. I have tryed to speak to that on one of my comments here. Spirituality and politics, you know how that goes!

I agree it is not for everyone, not even for the majority who encounter it and there are a lot of people that have just gotten caught up in the flavour of the month. For them, general phylosophy, teachings of that sort and current issue based information is really important. This is a global community. No matter how isolated people are or how they or we, try to isolate ourselves...the pollution , threat of nuclear holocaust...all these things and many many more, prevent anyone from being in a static staight culturally, health wise or in any way really whether we are conscious of it or not, we are all effected, nothing is isolated in truth. Everything is truley connected. So better to be aware. Are not most of these problems sprung out of a general ignorance and steriotypical Hollywood type ideas in the first place?Honestly, it is really embarressing sometimes. I know how it looks.

I could tell you my personal story of how I was guided into this. From what I have seen here though I don't think you guys would believe me. So why would I share that with people who do not believe in me or care about me? My personal dreams and visions, experiences, these are mine. Does this sound familier? I good analogy for this situation. There are no shortage of traitiors to this way. I respect the wounds I feel here. I respect where you are. Each of you. I have to be honest about where I am though too. Because I have self-respect.

It is out of hand I agree. That frightens me. Elder Art Soloman once said to me, actually he said it to a lot of people many times over..." every person has power"...."this battle is won one person at a time". There is no quick easy solution.

So I pray, I pray really hard for all of us. I will always be learning. I thank you for opening a door for me to see through your eyes a little better than I did before you shared with me.

Peace!


Offline earthw7

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Why is it the white people get hurt when we speak our feelings
In Spirit

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Quote
Why is it the white people get hurt when we speak our feelings

I think it is because most non native people tend to see everything as being all about them . They often don't
have a deeply rooted sense of the greater context that Native traditions exist within . Non native people rarely seem to really understand how important the integrity of the Culture is , and that when the general health and integrity of the culture is being defended , this is MUCH MUCH BIGGER AND MORE IMPORTANT than individuals personal wishes .

I think Non Native people who get attracted to ndn ways often feel trapped and isolated in their individuality , and they sense something that transcends this , within Native traditions , but when they try and use these traditions to escape from their unsatisfying constricted sense of self, they do so by reducing these traditions into something to serve them, rather than the other way around . Which wreaks everything .   

So all non native people usually hear when people talk about protecting ceremonies , is something about them not being important , which hurts their feelings .

Offline earthw7

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Thank moma,
I have been watch the event trandspire since 1978.
I went ceremonies and there was no non native there.
Slowly they started coming around the 80s.
At frist we were taught to welcome all people then
things started to happen.
1. Our elder's song were being stolen
2. People making claim to do ceremony that did not have the right.
3. People talking about ceremonies everywhere like it was game.
4. People assuming they had rights when they did not.

We ceremonies we attend are closed ceremonies because we have watched
what has happen in other part of Indian country.
It is true we are going to forbid non-native wives and husband of native to
not be allowed to attend.
We find that they do not listen.
1. They think everything is about them
2. They make up their own ways.
In Spirit

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Quote
Why is it the white people get hurt when we speak our feelings

I think it is because most non native people tend to see everything as being all about them . They often don't
have a deeply rooted sense of the greater context that Native traditions exist within . Non native people rarely seem to really understand how important the integrity of the Culture is , and that when the general health and integrity of the culture is being defended , this is MUCH MUCH BIGGER AND MORE IMPORTANT than individuals personal wishes .

I think Non Native people who get attracted to ndn ways often feel trapped and isolated in their individuality , and they sense something that transcends this , within Native traditions , but when they try and use these traditions to escape from their unsatisfying constricted sense of self, they do so by reducing these traditions into something to serve them, rather than the other way around . Which wreaks everything .   

So all non native people usually hear when people talk about protecting ceremonies , is something about them not being important , which hurts their feelings .

I strongly agree with this.