Author Topic: For All Those Who Were Indian In A Former Life  (Read 22679 times)

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: For All Those Who Were Indian In A Former Life
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2006, 12:13:23 am »
I think part of the problem is that the non native system mostly values and protects economic development , mass production , and the bosses that organize this . It is all about domination , and personal entitlement to get a big pile of stuff . Human and land based values important to indiginous cultures , that insist on responibility and consideration for others ,  and create practical , social and spiritual harmony , often get pushed aside as impractical and frivolous .  Because so much of indiginous cultures are organized around human values , the concerns and values of indiginous cultures tend to get disregarded more frequently .

Feminists do have a tendancy to buy into the strong value non native cultures place on dominance and that everyone has a right to put themselves first and have 2 of everything if they want it . So I guess it would make sense those types of feminist values could make some feminists self serving and deaf to the impact their actions have on the human values that need to be respected to maintain Native cultures .

That being said , most of the feminists I know are well informed and outspoken in defence of indiginous rights . So there are different types of feminism I guess .

I really admired what that feminist bookstore owner did . Part of this article was laminated and attached to the bookshelf in the indiginous peoples section , and she had written in felt pen that the books were for educational purposes only,  and using any information in them to make up ceremonies was WRONG. ( I did not see any twink books there either )
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline AlaskaGrl

  • Posts: 195
Re: For All Those Who Were Indian In A Former Life
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2006, 02:41:19 am »
Quote
for educational purposes only, ? and using any information in them to make up ceremonies was WRONG. ( I did not see any twink books there either )
 


It is wrong for many reasons. ? The one that stands out to me from my perspective, is the abuse of a ceremony (broad general use of word) ? can take ? many forms and can be in the long run down right dangerous to the, um, ok, ignorant folk who fancies him or herself this or that through their attempts to perform ceremony as laid out in a fluff book or fluff flier or as shown in a movie or as a sit-com on tv. ?  ?  ?

The person drawn in, as one un-instructed/prepared in whatever form the ceremony takes, does said ceremony, and then at some point opens the door to really messing themselves up through their ignorance and dis-respect or botching of whatever it is they are trying to do. ? They may think its all ok but they will get slapped sooner or later for having done it. ? Many things should not be written down or kept intact like that for good reason as it may in the long run somewhere down the line be abused in the wrong hands by what I will call the un-initiated. ? Yes things should be left to their respective peoples and not disturbed or monkeyed (including some antiquities) with but try to tell that to someone in the New Age section where you can buy books of quickie spells or kits to Voodoo your boss.... ?  I am amazed at how flippant some people approach the spiritual. ?

Conversely I've heard that drugs can make you feel good too but look what they do to you in the long run. ? That's a good analogy. ? But again, it can be difficult to reason with people when they really want to do something and are are all hyped up about doing it and the mere thought of doing it makes them feel entitled to do it its like some weird endorphin kicks in to tease them into finally actually doing it. ? So they have to find out for themselves the hard way, hopefully not to hard a way or they may at some point have to get someone to fix them.  

Some get sucked into that "let's make money doing this" and then fall into the pit of corruption - perhaps one of the many ways I see that spirit slaps them for being stupid. ? I think all these terrible things I see some of these faux shamans and wannabees embroiled in - threatening people, the violence the sexual abuse, all that stuff ends up being a direct result of them monekying with the universe, with ceremony. ? They think they are getting one thing but something else gets them instead and they are too caught up in it all to see where they are heading... ? I often wonder, if they had not gone that route with the abuse of the sacred, perhaps they would not have fallen into that vile mess they ended up in. Maybe if they had instead taken up astronomy or fishing things would have been better. ?

That is a wonderful article and I agree with its many points. ? Thanks for posting it.

Lindaa
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by AstronomyGal »

Offline kiyoshi

  • Posts: 9
Re: For All Those Who Were Indian In A Former Life
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2009, 03:51:19 am »
Hi.  Not Native, Euro/Asian bi-racial.  Confronting my own racism and past cultural stealing practices. 

I don't know if anyone's interested, but I just posted some things about one of the "women's sun dances" in the "needs research" section.  I wasn't sure about if the woman I'm worried about is still head dancer there, so I didn't want to post it as "Yes, this is for sure, everything about this post."

Anyway, a possibility for abusive practices going on there, as well as IMO a certain amount of just plain disrespect.  Just wanted to put in a warning. 

PS: I really needed to read all your posts.  They were helpful.