http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamingandMedicineWheel/

[Tsisqua]

New address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TraditionalDreaming/

[shoshone1]

 this might be old but i clicked on the yahoo groups .com link and it doesnt show up .But I would like to knw whats going on ,is this still an issure

[Sapphire Dragonfly]

Just the other day I found this article on the web about fake shamans.  I wanted to say I know this girl.  I went to a dreaming workshop that she had advertised at a local shop a few years ago.  It sounded very interesting and it was.  Problem was that she was terribly unorganized and couldn't keep the interest of the other 2 people in the group.  All I wanted to do was learn more about interpreting dreams.  I was being taught were the different parts of the dreams would fit on the medicine wheel.  It was a log of fun, but then she invited me to be involved in her on line MSN.com group.  It was a group for people with eating disorders.  Called thebridgeforanorecticsandbulimics.  Everything just got weirder and wierder after that.  She wanted me to help teach and council these poor sick people.  I totally wasn't qualified to do this.  If you didn't help though you were councled and critizied for not giving back to the collective.   I never was sure if she was a fake or not because so much of what she would teach seemed good and right, but I always had a feeling she was stealing her teachings from somewhere.  She really seemed to have a split personality.   
She says she learned to be Shaman from her Grandmother who was Haudenosaunee Seneca tradition.  She would talk about her 90 year old grandfather all the time too.  Her stories were very conflicting.   She says her grandmother was teaching her from the dreaming, and also her grandfather had given her her grandmothers notes.
 
She finally found more local people to start meetings at her home.  She was very nice and first, but then she started getting mean and rude to her students.  She was trying to weed out people who had too large of an ego I guess.  She would push normal seeming people away and then take in really odd people and treated them like they were perfectly normal.  One day I was at her house (she invited me to come over special this day)  She had a girl there that was so so strange and the girl was claiming to have made a stove blow up by just thinking mad thoughts, and this girl was also saying she had a demon living in her back, but the girls was clearly not right in the head, she kept picking her toes and was in la la land the whole time.  But Uuwa and her Sorcerer partner Charles Farewelling who was in town for a visit from Alberta Canada, were acting like this girl was absolutely normal.   I starting thinking I must be crazy for sticking around at all.  I guess it was like a soap opera, I couldn't wait to find out what would happen next, what big strange stories would she tell me?  So I would keep coming back for more.  I also did enjoy spending time with her even though I thought she was nuts (crazy people can be fun you know).  When she is nice you just can't help wanting to be around her.  When she gets strange and mean you just are confused and think you must have been disrespectful to teacher.

She started complaining all the time that ALL of her students are disrespectful and they take and take from her and never give back.  She kept complaining that Westerners are all rude and horrible because they refuse to pay her.  But that wasn't true.  First she didn't want any money.  She just wanted to share and teach what she knew and start a dream sharing group.  Then she wanted money, but wouldn't take it if you tried to give it to her.  She also started rumors that students were stealing from her.  She is quite delusional. 

I finally had to leave her after she came back from a trip visiting her newly found great aunt and she told us about these ant people who live underground in the dessert and they will save us when something bad happens to the earth.

She is very friendly with a woman from Ohio (at least I think she's from Ohio).  Her name is Ally.  She goes by Crowtalker.  Ally I guess has Sorcerer energy and not Shaman energy. 

Uuwaya (U'uwa') lives in Rochester NY (unless she moved).  I think her name used to be Stephanie because that was on her screen saver on her computer.  I asked her once why it said Stephanie and she said her step father had hooked up her computer for her.

[educatedindian]

The MSN anorexia group is now empty, though they may have moved to Multiply.

Seems like she has "franchised out" to two people who are now selling ceremony. Plus Flewilling also.

-------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.religion.paganism
From: BloominOn...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:13:50 -0500
Local: Fri, Jun 16 2006 1:13 pm
Subject: Seneca Tradition Shamanism
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShamanismandDreaming/

Are you interested in studying Seneca Tradition Shamanism?  The board
linked above is a place for potential students to discuss their
motivations and ambitions for studying a traditional native shamanic
path.

Joanna Conrad-Pacelli and Rachel Lynn, initiates of U'uwa' Griffin and
Charles Flewelling, Shaman and Sorcerer of the Seneca Tradition, offer
study and healing in Seneca tradition Shamanism beginning 07/01/06.
Application and registration requirements, rules and expectations for
participation, will also be discussed there.  If you are interested in
registering for the course and have any questions, sign up, and please
feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Joanna and Rachel
-------------------------------


And this search

http://www.google.co.id/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22charles+flewelling%22+sorceror&btnG=Search&meta=

leads to this.

Seneca Tradition ShamanismCharles Flewelling, Shaman and Sorcerer of the Seneca Tradition, offer study and healing in Seneca tradition Shamanism beginning 07/01/06. ...
newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.religion.paganism/2006-06/msg00017.html - 6k

Pacelli apparently lives in the South Wedge neighborhood of Rochester NY. Listed under Economic Development.
http://www.southwedge.com/friends.htm

But from what our new member describes, these may all be deluded people conned by an eccentric or even possibly unstable person.

[educatedindian]

I've been in contact with one of Griffin's former followers. That person describes an atmosphere even more abusive and controlling than Sapphire does. It reminds me of the cult techniques used by the likes of Synanon and the Moonies.

They've asked me to pass along the information sent , but to paraphrase it so that none of the cult (which is what I believe best describes this group) can recognize them and cause any harassment.

Again, keep in mind this is my paraphrasing of this person's account.

----------------------------

I left the group and am now embarassed I ever was part of them. Much of what's on the NAFPS thread is out of date. Sapphire is very accurate in describing Griffin's mood swings. I won't go to the forum, I'm worried they could harass me.

The group doesn't sell ceremony and Griffin and her inner circle rarely even mention it. They sells an outlandish group therapy that they pretend is part of Seneca tradition when  it's really more like a cult. They talk about what they claim are Seneca traditions about moons and the medicine wheel.

The two others you saw who are now selling ceremony were students of hers. There are probably a couple other what you call ceremony sellers. Any you find using her name are very closely monitored by her. They're all spread out, none nearby her.

The anorexia/bulimia group they ended, saying the students were too lazy and arrogant. There were many other groups. The Yahoo one was to see the potential for those they could turn into students, or as you'd call them, followers. There was a group called Dragonflies for seeing their "willingness to work on their shit" in other words how much time they'd give to the group and how much the group could control them. Some sites were set up for those they had more trouble controlling.

They wanted everyone to pay a fee of $100 per month. Many would not pay it. Some paid a couple times more each month for quite awhile. They told us we were paying for her time and energy. She was online for 12 hours a day or more.

Members were expected to keep many detailed posts chronicling their lives, some for all they did while awake, others for their dreams, and others about their emotions. The group had what they called "gatekeepers" who would tear apart, criticize and analyze all the members had written about themselves. Other members would criticize each other too about their "shit." The member had to agree with all the criticism or they'd get emotionally abused by several people.

U'uwa Griffin is very perceptive or at least believable when she zeros in on the shortcomings of others. She is said to be a shaman, and we were taught to believe that all shamans are infallible. Anyone questioning her was "dealt with".

Her supposed psychic abilities aren't so good. She calls herself a medical intuitive, and makes diagnoses and predictions about people's health. Always she's wrong. She worked with people with chronic health problems, claiming that emotional issues brought on their illness. The only people who testified about her being a good healer were family members, but none of us even knew if they existed. These family members would always appear to say they had been told her prediction after it'd already supposedly come true. But never before.

The group always talks about what they call "shit" or emotional baggage. They claim the shaman will become ill if members are lazy and refuse to "work on their shit." Griffin claims to have many illnesses caused by her students' refusal to do what she says. The group has mentioned sometimes she doesn't take her meds.

Members are constantly trying to figure out if it's your fault she has a health problems, putting yourself down before someone does it for you, and ripping other people to shreds whilr you hope you will make a good dreamer. If you disagree or even don't agree fast enough you are abused or kicked out. Many of the people who come to her have serious emotional problems. Making them seek her approval and put each other down is stressful and abusive. Most don't stay more than a month, but some become very meek and obedient.

Former students are declared to be lost souls who didn't want to heal or too lazy or scared to work on their "shit".

But the good thing is they didn't seem to be making much money off of people.