Billy Rainwater Barnes?

[BlackWolf]

This person was recently brought to my attention.  His name is Billy Rainwater Barnes and he claims to be some kind of a Medicine Man in Florida. He sells  herbal teas that are suppose to cure things like cancer and high blood pressure, and claims to have been born on a reservation in Illinois.  He doesn'nt seem to mention any particular tribe on his website. He also had a documentary made about his life that presents him as some kind of Native American healer.  Can anyone tell me if he is enrolled in any legitimite tribe or comes from any legitimite Indian community?



http://www.medicinemanteas.com/home.html

http://www.fentonproductionsllc.com/Frame-2-secretsofamedicinemanpage2.html?refresh=1195306902669

[frederica]

We have a couple of threads on him. http://www.ewebtribe.com/Rainwater/                                                                                                           http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1242msg14028#msg14028                                                                                                         He had ties to the SECCI Warrior Society in Georgia at one time. (SouthEast Cherokee Council, Inc.}

[educatedindian]

From his website medicinemanteas.

--------------

I make absolutely no money from the sale of any Medicineman Teas.  All money goes toward paying for hand gathered herbs and ingredients from around the country.

I am a true medicine man.

A lot of people are putting out different kinds of teas and they'll tell you these are Indian Teas and they'll have like 30 or 40 different ingredients in them... Once you go past what's supposed to be in it then you change the chemical structure of what we make and it no longer will work.   You may be making an Arsenic and it's killing people off and they say it's an Indian Tea, we got it from the Indians.  No....

His Indian birth name "Iamyellie" means "He who walks among the clouds".  Billy Rainwater was born on a reservation in Illinois on August 3rd, 1942 in a place called "Indian Town", Bureau County, named in honor of Pierre DeBureau, a half breed trader of French and Native American Ancestry who established a trading post with the Indians on the Illinois River in the 1700s.

---------

That's quite a feat. There are no rezzes in Illinois. There haven't been since Removal, which came for the state about the same time as the Trail of Tears.

I found references to a tiny village of a few hundred in Illinois called Indian Town, back in the 1830s and 40s. And there is today an Indian Town Township.
http://www.usa-local-search.com/il/details.aspx?id=14090890

The ewebtribe link Frederica found is a Bear Tribe link.

If a tribe is ever named, for him or the alleged rez, I didn't see it.

Found a pretty bizarre link accusing someone named Billy Rainwater, but it's hard to tell if they even mean the same person. Or to make sense of what the accusation even is.
http://www.lookingthruwolfeyes.com/TheRumor.html

[VHawkins]

The Rainwater surname has its origins in England, I believe. There is no "reservation" in Illinois, especially Cherokee as htey never lived there. "Iamyellie" would NOT mean anything in Cherokee -- all Cherokee syllables end in a vowel sound, so at least the "am" syllable would be nonsense, meaning the entire name is nonsense.

[BlackWolf]

Billy Rainwater Barnes also goes by the name "He who walks among the Clouds"  This obvious Exploiter and Fraud seems to be trying to cover his tracks lately.

http://www.disabledartistsnetwork.net/Medicine%20Man%20Herbal%20Cancer%20Cure.htm

This healer, this Medicine Man, this Tribal Council do not wish to be named at this time.  I have been sworn to secrecy and I will not share that information until or unless I am permitted and allowed.

He also seems to be given a number of different addresses including  Vero Beach, Fl, and Seattle, Wa

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2v-Y-B6NZwYJ:www.disabledartistsnetwork.net/Cure%2520for%2520Cancer.htm+%22He+who+walks+among+the+Clouds%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[DisabledArtistsNetwork]

This is in regard to Billy Rainwater Barnes.  He does not live in Vero Beach nor does he live in Seattle.  He is genuine. He is documented.  Fenton Productions did an award winning documentary on him.  He Who Walks on Clouds is one of his Native American Names.  If you know anything about tribes and Medicine Men then you know that as a rule the Medicine Man does not usually associate with or treat people outside the tribe.  No one has ever documented a legitimate Medicine Man and people do not understand the difference between a typical medicine man and a legitimate Medicine Man.  A typical medicine man knows a few things at most and you can probably go to the library and find a book that will tell you what general knowledge is available as far as herbs go. 
I was trying to help him get documentation for his cancer treatments.  At his own expense and my own I sent samples out to be tested to validate that it is safe and it works. Neither of us knew how difficult this process would be.  After multiple attempts to contact Cancer Research and other Research organizations I was finally told that to prove that an alternative treatment such as this would cost at least 3 million dollars to research and document.  We certainly didn't have that kind of money and the people who have been asking for help for there cancer for all these years certainly don't and could little afford to pay for anything at all.
So before you go calling Billy Rainwater Barnes a Fraud then please explain what is fraudulent about helping people with there cancer for free?  Billy has been paying for the processing of the herbs out of his own pocket for years treating people without payment to the point he is in serious debt.  Medicine Men are not allowed to ask for money for there work or there treatments.  However it is okay to make a gift.  People being the way they are just take advantage of him and I thought that was  wrong.  I thought they should at least pay for the processing of the herbs and plant material and postage which Billy had been paying for out of his own pocket. 
The only fraud going on here is people who make accusations about someone who helps people and people who take advantage of people willing to help others without recompense.
In the matter of proving tribal affiliations, there are some things that tribal members do not wish to discuss and it is not because they are not legitimate. This is new ground and the tribe has a right to ask there privacy be respected.  Thank you.  I hope this clears up any misinformation.

[Cetan]

What tribe is he enrolled with? You say that "as a rule the Medicine Man does not associate with or treat people outside the tribe" but it is OK for them the make a DVD for sale to anyone?

[Superdog]

te with or treat people outside the tribe.  No one has ever documented a legitimate Medicine Man and people do not understand the difference between a typical medicine man and a legitimate Medicine Man.  A typical medicine man knows a few things at most and you can probably go to the library and find a book that will tell you what general knowledge is available as far as herbs go. 
I was trying to help him get documentation for his cancer treatments.  ............

....So before you go calling Billy Rainwater Barnes a Fraud then please explain what is fraudulent about helping people with there cancer for free?  Billy has been paying for the processing of the herbs out of his own pocket for years treating people without payment to the point he is in serious debt. 

While there's definitely some issues you have when attempting to talk about (generalize really) medicine men to a board forum full of Native Americans from tribes all over the US and Canada I really want to focus on the part where you say that he does this all for free and processing herbs without payment.

According to the site run by Fenton Productions and Medicine Man Teas there is a minimum charge for any order.  To be fair it's stated on the site that the fees go towards "gathering" all the ingredients, but does not give any specifics.  It also says that exact prices must go with specific orders, the minimum amount listed on the order form seems to contradict your statement.

http://www.medicinemanteas.com/order_form_.pdf
"Tea Preparation (60 Day Supply $150 & up)
Herbal Pills (50 Day Supply $125 & up)
Please call or E-mail me for prices."


According to the website you send the order form with a check or money order and it seems he won't do business for less that $125 an order.

I make no comment on the effectiveness of his herbal remedies and don't wish to take the discussion there.  The question about him has simply been raised.  To be objective all I know about him is posted on the medicinemanteas.com website and that's info that he puts out about himself.  The claim of a reservation in Illinois is definitely a little out there, as is claiming to be a medicine man taught by elders, but doesn't name what tribe or community he learned these things.  There's one other issue and that is that he's working out of Florida now (correct?)....how do local remedies from Illinois translate to a Florida environment?  Then there's also the main point of my post...the claim that what he does is for free, yet there is a price tag and advertisements for his services.....

So unfortunately for me your post did not clear up anything...it just raised more questions.

Superdog

[Superdog]

I also found this fairly recent link..where he says some questionable things as well.  Don't get me wrong, he really does seem to be a helpful person, but he appears to also use his claim as Native American and a "certified medicine man" to sell his services.  Not saying I have the whole picture, but there is more contradictions here.

In the article(gonna use bold to distinguish the interviewer and Billy):
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/hernando-neighbors-billy-rainwater-barnes-67/1086492

"How long have you lived in Hernando County, and where do you live? Where did you live previously?

I was born in Indiantown Township, the last Indian reservation in Illinois. My wife and I lived in Oklahoma and Texas before moving to Brooksville just over 12 years ago."
......
"Who are the members of your family?

First, all American Indians are my family. I am an American Indian with DNA proof, but I make no claim to any tribe."
............
"Tell us something about yourself most people don't know.

I'm a certified goldsmith, whitesmith, diamond cutter, art teacher, potter and, best of all, a certified medicine man, and not one of those powwow snake oil kind of people. I'm still learning. A great friend once told me "never stop learning," and I hope I never do."
............


Then in the comment section:

Precious2Love Oct 4, 2010 6:51 PM Last year

William E. "Rainwater" Barnes lived in Tampa, Florida in South Tampa on 5802 3rd street from 1981 to 1997. His daughter Dawnwea attended Robinson High School and his son, William Charles Barnes attended Madison Jr. High and Robinson High School. The children pretty much cut their ties to Tampa, which is a bit strange since they grew up here. I lived with Bill, Carol, Dawn and Billy for a few months in 1994. Just curious why they didn't mention living in Tampa for over 16 years before moving to Hernando...


Badduck1 Dec 9, 2010 11:00 AM Last year

Billy "Two Feathers" Is what he used to go by. I am his oldeest son. I used to live with my dad in Tampa at the blue house on 5802 3rd st. It sat on a corner across the street from a lawn care facility. True green or something. I used to go to Robinson High school as well, When Billy and Dawnwea were in elementary.
If you want to know more just ask me. I will tell you maore about this man.

-------------------------

So from the comments it seems he's left out a big part of his life and especially his connection to Florida.  I'm not saying he's a liar, but he does seem to leave out information when it seems convenient and it's noticeable enough that even an old friend of his would question it.  The place where you raised your children, is to me, relevant information when telling your life story.  I wonder why he wouldn't mention that either.  The claim by Precious2Love that his children have cut all ties to Tampa is interesting as well as the name change from Two Feathers to Rainwater.  I'm also interested what language translates "Iamyellie" as "He who walks among the clouds" and his wife's name "Tully" as "Little Chestnut"

Hoping you can help clear these things up.

Superdog

[Smart Mule]

I need a nap.  I was reading his site as medicineMANATEES.com which left me a little confused.

As did this "It's so fragile that sunlight and your home/office lighting can destroy it yet if you tried to duplicate it in a lab like some scientists did you would run the risk of blowing yourself up.", which was taken from here - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2v-Y-B6NZwYJ:www.disabledartistsnetwork.net/Cure%20for%20Cancer.htm%20%22He%20who%20walks%20among%20the%20Clouds%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I know a little about working with herbs.  In his instructions he says to use a stainless steel cook pot.  I don't know what his seven magical herbs are but I do know that when preparing herbs you should always use glass or ceramic, the metal (stainless or not) can do some weird stuff to the volatile properties of the herbs.

Also, I am wondering if he is in violation of The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services laws.  Even if the teas he sells are prepackaged, according to the law in Florida he still needs to meet their consumable products guidelines.  I'll be calling them.

Finally, it is DANGEROUS for him to be unwilling to state what herbs he uses.  While he personally may state that all of his ingredients do not cause allergic reaction, how does he know? 

I don't believe a word of his claims.  Shame on him for preying on the sick and vulnerable.

[educatedindian]

This is in regard to Billy Rainwater Barnes.  He does not live in Vero Beach nor does he live in Seattle.  He is genuine. He is documented.  Fenton Productions did an award winning documentary on him.  He Who Walks on Clouds is one of his Native American Names.  If you know anything about tribes and Medicine Men then you know that as a rule the Medicine Man does not usually associate with or treat people outside the tribe.  No one has ever documented a legitimate Medicine Man and people do not understand the difference between a typical medicine man and a legitimate Medicine Man.  A typical medicine man knows a few things at most and you can probably go to the library and find a book that will tell you what general knowledge is available as far as herbs go. 
I was trying to help him get documentation for his cancer treatments.  At his own expense and my own I sent samples out to be tested to validate that it is safe and it works. Neither of us knew how difficult this process would be.  After multiple attempts to contact Cancer Research and other Research organizations I was finally told that to prove that an alternative treatment such as this would cost at least 3 million dollars to research and document.  We certainly didn't have that kind of money and the people who have been asking for help for there cancer for all these years certainly don't and could little afford to pay for anything at all.
So before you go calling Billy Rainwater Barnes a Fraud then please explain what is fraudulent about helping people with there cancer for free?  Billy has been paying for the processing of the herbs out of his own pocket for years treating people without payment to the point he is in serious debt.  Medicine Men are not allowed to ask for money for there work or there treatments.  However it is okay to make a gift.  People being the way they are just take advantage of him and I thought that was  wrong.  I thought they should at least pay for the processing of the herbs and plant material and postage which Billy had been paying for out of his own pocket. 
The only fraud going on here is people who make accusations about someone who helps people and people who take advantage of people willing to help others without recompense.
In the matter of proving tribal affiliations, there are some things that tribal members do not wish to discuss and it is not because they are not legitimate. This is new ground and the tribe has a right to ask there privacy be respected.  Thank you.  I hope this clears up any misinformation.

DAN, as I hope you've seen, this just raises more questions than it answers. For starters, your website is itself promoting Barnes and his alleged cures. I'd like to ask if your site receives any compensation for doing that. Or if not, have you personally seen some of these alleged cures?

The film also is not very helpful, and certainly not very impressive. The clip for it at Fenton Productions seems to be mostly an informercial, along with quite a bit of dancing at a very small attempt at a powwow by the same 4 or 5 descendants in various tribes regalia. It also has what seems to me a big red flag, people of obviously low BQ or descent who choose to wear regalia while being interviewed or even going about their daily lives. It's like they know no one would see them as NDN if they just wore a t shirt and jeans or suit and tie.

The awards, well, that same award show, the Crystal Reels, also gave out an award for voiceover work on "UFOs- God's Celestial Air Force." Though I suppose have an ex member of the Backstreet Boys presenting them does say something...

I don't think I've ever heard of someone claiming what tribe they are is some kind of big heavily guarded secret. Not that it does much good. We already know the groups he's associated with, the SECCI and the Bear Tribe. And neither one are remotely legit.

There might be legit reasons for keeping some secrets from drug companies. Many of us know they've often tried to steal herbal cures away from traditional people and get legal control over them. But what you're claiming may just be the most ineffectual alleged conspiracy ever, that you went to drug companies and they weren't even interested, but that somehow keeping the alleged tribe's name would protect a cure for cancer, etc.

[earthw7]

Any Native person would tell what nation they are from and what family they come from and who speak for them in the tribe.
We don't need DNA to tell us that, from what i see this man has to be a fraud

[BlackWolf]

Quote from Billy Rainwater Barnes Website, medicinemanteas

Billy Rainwater was born on a reservation in Illinois on August 3rd, 1942 in a place called "Indian Town", Bureau County, named in honor of Pierre DeBureau, a half breed trader of French and Native American Ancestry who established a trading post with the Indians on the Illinois River in the 1700s.

DAN, WHAT RESERVATION ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE??


educatedindian already pointed out that there are NO RESERVATIONS in Illinois.  What American Indian Tribe has now, or had a Reservation in Illinois when Billy Rainwater Barnes was born???

[Don]

Hi,

    My name is Don E. Barnes my given name at one time Is Don Running Wolf Barnes. I was a part of an association of the American Indian Association. I personally do not remember the council or what organazation it was. Now I say this because "Bill Two feathers Barnes" , or "Bill RainWater Barnes" is my father. I will say a lot of his story is fraudulant.
    One He was not married fo rmore than fifty years to any one woman, and he may have went through some of these places he claims he was from, but he never did anything there. If you look into the Indian council located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania or at least close to that area. You will mention his name as "Billy Two Feathers Barnes" They do know him. I would start there for your information. My fathers, father my grandfather was a Cherokee, and his mother my grandmother if I am not mistaken is full blooded Indian, but with out knowing what tribe I do not remember.
    My father was not studying then, nor did he supposedly know anything about teas. Unless of course you count the pot that he used to dry out in the dehydrator in the kitchen. Oh wait we used to make florida brewed tea yeah it came from "Lipton" we would put water in a gallon masosn jar filled with water and a few"Lipton Tea Bags" man that was good. Oh and we made pemician yeah you know in the same dehydrator he dried his "Weed" we would get stakes from the store and marinate them and make well jerky. You know motternday Indian stuff. Matter of fact we were supposed to be in business with a group where we built disco tech dance floors in a adult club called "ZAPPs". He did make a few pieces of jewlery but he never made enough or was licensed by anyone. The shield he has on his web page is supposed to be our Indian family crest.
    My father never helped my mother who he left with two children my sister Jeannie, and I with out nothing. While he cheated on my mother with this so called Carrol, and he never paid child support.  Ask this man how much he loved his kids that he took my social security number and bought a vehicle in his name when I lived with him in Tampa, Florida. Helping people for nothing that is a laugh and a half You can contact me at any time. I will be more than glad to talk about the truth if anyone wants to know it. I am not upset at all , but he did my mother, sister, and I wrong. 

Don Barnes