Re: Elder's Meditation of the Day August 1,2005

[Moonshadow]

Strangely-deaf-and-dumb-woman, why have you lost your words? Oh, I see, they got lost in the other thread....guess those were the only words you had?

Oh well, they won´t be missed....  :-/

[educatedindian]

But all you've done is act childish, name call, argue, etc. By your own standards you're a hypocrite. Most of the advice in that meditation you fail to follow yourself.

We've been amazingly patient with you, partly because you're so danged funny, whether you realize it or not.

But trying to see how many threads you can start filled with vague advice that you somehow delude yourself into thinking is being "helpful"...that's not help, that's SPAM, even if the words themselves are good.

White Bison does good work with alcoholics and others, but their advice seldom applies to us. It might seem extremely wise to you, perhaps because you are only of distant Indian ancestry by your own admission.

Come on, you seriously think none of us have heard of Peltier? ? To many of the people in here, this stuff is pretty basic. It's like going to a Catholic church and saying, "Did you know Mary gave birth as a virgin?" They'd think, "Gee, we already knew that."

If you want a thread with only White Bison meditations, OK. But keep it confined to just this one thread. Any new threads with the same topic will be moved or deleted.

Oh, and what's up with the goofy animal rights group you linked to? Very Nuagey, "Save the iguanas!" Are they your "power animal"? LOL! That link was deleted.

[debbieredbear]

There is another point here, Al. Ms. Not-so-bright woman most likely does not have White Vison's permission to post copywrited material. The reason I say this is that someone, on another list ASKED them is they could trepost the daily meditations and were told NO. White Bison does not ALLOW people to repost these meditations. I suggest MS Not So Bright Woman, cease unless she provides proof (as in a letter from Don Coyhis) that she has permission to repost this material.

[educatedindian]

I see your point Debbie. If she doesnt provide proof, the meditations will be deleted. She probably is deliberately trying to cause trouble for us, wants to run to White Bison or our server and say "Look at what they're doing."

SHW, you sure don't seem to understand Indian Humor. Your words in your last post frankly sound like threats, and Nuagey kind of threats. "I will have all of the power"? "Smoke will rise for you all"?

You sound like you want to set yourself up as some little dictator and have to crush us as some kind of a threat, when all we've done is laugh when you say silly things, or point out how you talk down to us like a little kid who thinks "I know you are, but what am I?" is somehow "wisdom."

Even for a Sonier groupie, you're not the best argument for thinking any better of his little clique.

[debbieredbear]

Hey brainless wonder, you STILL have not proved that you have asked and gotten permission from Mr. Coyhis to repost his copywritten material. ? So you are basically a thief.

On another board I am on, they asked him and he replied that he never gives permission to repost his material. It is for PERSONAL USE ONLY. Get it?

OH, and give up the Tonto speak. Save it for your white yuppie wannabe friends who think a drop of Indian blood (or a great great grannie who was a Cherokee Princess) makes you wise and spirichual. (Yeah, I misspelled it on purpose.)

[educatedindian]

*Yawn*
Let's see...
Debbie uses her real name on here. So does Barnaby, Vance, Joseph, and most of the others. My name is not only there for all to see in many posts, I have a whole long intro at nafps.net. Most people have intros, that's why we have a whole INTRO section.

You use a twinkie "Indian" name and we had to do a search to get you to admit your real name.

You asked for proof, we gave you tons of it that Sonier is a fraud, statements every Micmaq band leader, AIM members, etc.

That's checkmate. We're done. Your last post was pure spam. Any other spam posts will get you banned. You've wasted enough of our time with your relly-spirchul posing.

[AlaskaGrl]

WHO WE ARE:
http://newagefraud.org/about.html

"Ths site and forum is for those concerned about the fraud, deceit, money hunger, sexual abuse, racism, control, hunger for power and ego, and cult-like tendencies of the New Age movement and pseudo "shamans." We investigate and seek to warn the public about impostors and exploiters posing as Native medicine people or elders. There are more than two hundred impostors out there posing as Cherokee medicine people alone. Multiply that by five hundred Native nations in the US, and add on the exploiters who abuse or lie about practices of Latin America's Indians, and you get an idea of the sheer, massive scope of the problem."


Linda

[Matt_Bowerman]

Greetings everyone,
It seems that there is a little tension here.  As a new member to the list I am no expert on many of the topics addressed, so I read and learn when I can.  I was a little confused with this original posting as it was not really within the board’s scope, and I think this is what the senior members have tried to impart to ‘Strong-Heart-Women’.  I also believe that some tempers have risen to an unproductive level. While the jab about watered down Indian blood was not directed at me, it still was not a joy to read. It sort of lets me know where I stand though.        

[educatedindian]

Matt, no one said anything against "thin blood" and I challenge you to show me where that supposedly was said.

What SHW has been saying is actually pretty racist. She found out she has a little bit of ancestry, so she thinks that is a reason she should speak like Tonto and follow twinkie leaders like Sonier and McCullough.

I don't think there's any "tension" just annoyance for a spammer like SHW, who is looking more and more like an imposter. For one thing, she is saying the exact same things a woman from France has said to me in her emails. So is she even really who she claims?

The last post was truly amazing, SHW/whoever you are. You managed to make an entire post without even a single true statement.

"I guess you can't read the post I have made in the frauds section asking them to back up the fraud claims they have made against Arthur Medicine Eagle and Steve Mccullough...They can not..."

His name is not "Medicine Eagle" (the name of several famous Nuage frauds), it's Sonier. And the proof of him being a fraud has been shown to you REPEATEDLY, statements from every Micmaq band leader, AIM, ICARE, and powwow organizers. You just keep bleating, "Duh, where is it?" and refuse to deal with the proof in front of your eyes

No one even brought up McCullough til you just did.

"Arthur is a 2nd Chief..."

Sonier is no one's chief (except perhaps in the Boy Scout sense), he's not even Indian. If you aren't part of any tribe (as even you admit) how could he be "chief" of any group except a Nuage twinkie one?

"They showed me letters from different tribes claiming Arthur is not a member, but of course he never claimed to be..."

Are you kidding? We showed letters saying no one in ANY Micmaq community had ever heard of him.

"The Steve McCullough issue...is Sundance held in the Eastern US, as if it were for material gain...The reasoning for this is the most of the tribe members are located in the East...Wasn't aware that Indians were supposed to remain on the reservation..."

Once again, this is the first time the issue has even been raised since the old yahoo group. But for the record, AIM Indiana denounced McCullough's Sundance-for-profit. McCullough is holding a for profit fake "Sundance" for whites in Indiana, against the wishes of Lakota back home.

And please, just how dumb do you have to be to claim most Lakota live in INDIANA?

"I was attacked for defending Arthur and Steve...:"

Actually you were laughed at because you speak like Tonto, and for being an annoying spammer.

Your martyrdom act is pretty boring...

"I posted the Elders Meditation in the general catagory, as these are words of wisdom and needed as a guide for everyone..."

You posted them HERE under Welcome and News, and once before under Frauds, when they don't belong under either. You did so without White Bison's permission.

"I have not seen any real proof of fraud from these people..."

You've seen it many times, you just bleat "Duh, where is it?" repeatedly. A sheep has more sense, at least it knows when it's beaten.

[Matt_Bowerman]

"perhaps because you are only of distant Indian ancestry by your own admission. "

This was the sentance I was refering to, and after reflection, I beleive it to be derected to a culture based point having nothing to do with blood amount.  You were just pointing out the lack of understanding regarding the culture in question, or the culture being ripped off.  

I myself have to go back to my 5th Great Grand Father to reach a full blooded indian, and he was half Cherokee, and half Lenape.  It is people like me that benifit from NAFPS's efforts.  SO when we do learn about our ancestors culture, we learn the truth, and not some Nuagey holywood claptrap. I remember when 'Dances' came out , all these nuagey types in San Diego started calling themselves made up names they recieved from their 'spirit-totems', or 'spirit-guids'.  I did not know if I should laugh at what I herd, or berate them. None were ndn, most were wiccans looking for a new mask.      

[debbieredbear]

Matt,

None of that was directed at you. What was referred to is a person, who finds they have some Indian ancestry, and then becomes an instant "traditional." Seen it tooo many times.The sad thing is that nuager wannabes will listen to someone like that over someone who has been raised traditional. A couple of weeks ago, a local fraud told my fullbloof friend "I've been in the 'Indian business' () for over twenty years now." My friend replied "I have been in the 'Indian business' since birth." The wannabes listen to the fraud and discard any part of what my friend says that they don't like.

And for the record, yes I did insult that idiot woman. She reads things into what is posted and pays no attention. It's all about her her her.

[AlaskaGrl]

"nuagey types in San Diego started calling themselves made up names they recieved from their 'spirit-totems', or 'spirit-guids'. ? I did not know if I should laugh at what I herd, or berate them. None were ndn, most were wiccans looking for a new mask. ?  ?  ?  

I would bet they were Hollywood nuagey ? **Pagans** and not Wiccans. ? I don't know of any "Wiccans" who call themselves by ndn names and who do ndn "style" things in order to appear ndn ? hmmmm ? but those "totem animals" seem to be in now with just about everyone Wiccan or Pagan by all the books out on the shelves now. ?  ? But lots of people like to blame things on Witches and Wiccans alone. ? It's an easy term to grab but it is not always correct. ?

Addendum:
Debbie mentioned to me that where she is ? Wiccans are doing various Native things in an attempt to emulate. ? That even goes against the initial information that Gerald Gardner taught (who started Wicca). ?

Again, I have to lay the blame on the wannabees & plastic shamans  who proliferate online, in the book stores and new age shops.  And ok, on those people who don't take the time to LEARN about what it is they want to do.  It's such an instantaneous society. ? It is not right and it certainly goes against anything I was taught or believe but then i'm an old fashioned, hereditary, quite opinionated Witch who is an activist on many levels.... ?

But it is real hard to shovel it sometimes ? LOL

Linda

[educatedindian]

A lot of people are in your situation Matt, including some other members of NAFPS. Vance has a Yahoo group, Chickamauga Researchers, that you might be interested in.

I've tried coming up with a term than wouldn't offend people. Some Natives use "thinbloods" but some are offended by it. And I don't care about BQ anyway. So I talk about people of distant Indian ancestry (PODIA) , meaning most of the time it might be several generations since anyone in the person's family had contact with the culture. And these are the people who are esp vulnerable to people like not just Sonier and McCullough, but the dozens of would be "Cherokee tribes" and all the fake shamans, since they often don't know any better.

If anybody has an idea for a better term I'm interested to hear it.

[Matt_Bowerman]

Thanks for replying to my message everyone.  I have learned allot from the posts in the forum, and hope to learn more in the future.  It is an honor to listen to what all of you have to say on these issues. My Great grandfather and his family were from the Red River Station area in Texas, and Stonewall, Oklahoma.  I have only been with and around Lakota at any length regarding culture.  Some of that culture was freezing my but off during the winter of 1994 in Manderson. I stayed with Sam Tall, and visited his aunti-Margret (not his real aunt) not far from the post office.  When they say the homes are not winterized they mean it man.  Thank good for the pot belled stove, but due to the cracks in the old wooden plank floor, the stove really didn’t do much good. I would love to let some of these ‘nuagers’ go live on the Pine Ridge reservation one winter.  That will nip any of their dreams of grandeur right in the bud.  Sam used to joke with me and call me a ‘half-breed ditch dog’ so ‘watered-down’ is fine with me,  I just want to make sure I do not come off as a 'want-to-be because I am interested in learning about my Great Grandfather’s (5th) Cherokee and Lenape culture.  Part of learning this is respecting it.  Part of respecting the culture is participating in groups like this.  At least that is what this one ‘half-breed ditch dog’ thinks. (grin)    

Respectfully,

Matthew  

[Matt_Bowerman]

I forgot to mention that my wife’s family is also mixed white and Cherokee, but Kelly has a lot more Cherokee blood than I, as her Grandfather (John Johnson) was ¼ .  I hope to ensure that our boys have a healthy respect for their fore-fathers, and their culture.  My wife and I have been talking about moving to Oklahoma City in a few years.  We hope to then start taking the boys out to Stomp Dances.    

Matt