The word "Indian" is much maligned.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Your total lack of respect is completely appalling.

I'm not speaking for any of the native peoples on this site. I am speaking for myself here.

In fact, I rarely if ever speak for someone other than myself. Just want to make that clear.

I read this thread again, and I see where you were told the word "indian" was created by white
people and the word "ndn" was created by native peoples. You completely disrespect that and
choose the made up white term that you have also been told most native peoples do not like, and
which you yourself have admitted carries a lot of negative prejudices

But so what.. right? it's what YOU like and you're the only person on the planet who matters.. right?

And then by some grand assumption you state there is only 1 native person on this board.

And then.. assume the elders approve of what you do or say? What gives you that right to assume
anything of them?

I am a white person, and I am many times completely clueless to the issues or cultures of Native
peoples, in fact, I am most times completely clueless. I watch how I am in the world, I recognize
my "white privilege" and my preconceived notions or racisms that were either bred or taught into
me from the white world I grew up in. I make many mistakes, and probably offend many people.
I am in no way perfect. But, when someone tells me they don't like being called by a word white
people created for them, I respect that.

What can you say of yourself in that regard? To me, you're nothing but a white bloated pig with
no more sense than a toothpick that keeps poking the tender sores instead of picking out the
infection to make well.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Gwaewael, I apologize for calling you a white bloated pig. I realize that you are here to learn.

Please take the advice to read the Do's and Dont's and the many other threads on
this board so that you can try to gain a perspective that is not your own on these
matters.

It helps to see things from someone else's perspective as much as possible. It helps
in all areas of life, not just here.

[Gwaewael]

Hi Superdog!  I’m starting to like you.

I’m not sure why, but I just don’t like NDN.  It’s only a personal preference, so you don’t have to worry about it.  Just drop it, OK?  I might change my mind sometime.

So I take it you’re Native.  Hello.  I’m pleased to meet you.  It’s very nice to be talking to an Indian.  So what would you actually prefer to be called instead?  You realize that people on this forum are just names on a screen to me, so I don’t know who or what anybody is.  Except for critter, who has self-identified.  It’s very confusing and intimidating here.  It frightens me to think that many Native people are reading what I write.

I should read the board?  Who’s had time to read the board?  I can barely keep my head above water on these two threads.  I feel constantly attacked by multiple people I don’t know, who are from different cultures, and I feel I need to defend myself.  I spend HOURS trying to compose posts that won’t offend, only to have one of my posts quoted in its entirety with the comment, “Wow!!”  That’s really cruel.  And superior.  Many Indians complain that whites act superior, so now the shoe is on the other foot.

Can you tell me what parts of the forum I should read?  I’m a beginner at forums and won’t necessarily know how to follow your directions.

You say I shouldn’t over-generalize.  I don’t know what you mean.  I don't know anything about particular tribes, so all of my comments have to be general.  Show me a quote of mine that should have been phrased differently.


Hi critter!  Thank you for telling me who you are.

[Defend the Sacred]

Except for one person though, there ARE no Indians here to ask.

Actually, there are plenty of NDNs in your area. Some of them put on public events that are open to non-Natives. And as Superdog said, there are plenty of NDNs on this board. There is really no excuse for saying there are no NDNs to listen to.

I’m not sure why, but I just don’t like NDN.  It’s only a personal preference, so you don’t have to worry about it.  Just drop it, OK?  I might change my mind sometime.

Um... tone, OK? You're coming off as really impolite and entitled. People will talk about what they want to talk about. This is an established forum, and you are new here. The core members here have interacted on a daily or almost-daily basis for years. Many of the members have known each other for over ten years and a number of us know one another in person.  You are not going to get up to speed overnight. Have some patience.

You realize that people on this forum are just names on a screen to me, so I don’t know who or what anybody is.

Most of us have written introductions. You can go through people's posts and read them. Also, most of us *have* identified our ethnicities in our responses to you. Again, I'm getting the impression you aren't actually reading what we are saying.

It’s very confusing and intimidating here.  It frightens me to think that many Native people are reading what I write.

I'm not sure that I want to know why you're so scared of NDNs... though I guess that if you act with the same degree of privilege in person as you have here, you may have gotten some looks and comments that upset you.

I was shy and kind of ignorant when I first came here (I am also non-Native, as I have already mentioned). I made some mistakes and got called on them. You have to accept that you will mess up, and be open to hearing feedback without getting defensive.

I should read the board?  Who’s had time to read the board?  

... Lots of us. Most of us. Some of us read for years before posting. Read the pinned posts in every section. Listen more than you talk.

You've had the time to post. A lot. And you've had time to tell NDNs what they should or shouldn't call themselves, and how you're going to use whatever terminology *you* like, no matter what NDNs have to say about it. I'll echo what others have said: that is really insulting.

If you don't have time to read, you don't have time to post. How can you expect people to listen to you if you don't listen to us?  

I can barely keep my head above water on these two threads. I feel constantly attacked by multiple people I don’t know, who are from different cultures, and I feel I need to defend myself.

... Often people who come looking for conflict find it. I've found that people who come in openness and humility usually do fine.
 

I spend HOURS trying to compose posts that won’t offend, only to have one of my posts quoted in its entirety with the comment, “Wow!!”  

If it's that difficult for you to communicate and hear what people think, maybe you should read more before posting. You might want to think and ponder what you've read for a while before responding. Are you on some sort of deadline we are not aware of?

That’s really cruel.  And superior.  Many Indians complain that whites act superior, so now the shoe is on the other foot.

No, it's not. Earth has been very kind to you. She is an elder and has a great deal of respect here. You should be honored she even bothered to try to educate you, and don't you dare insult her if you want to be allowed to participate here. She could have ripped your post apart, but she was kind to you. As others have said, this is not about your feelings. You have said some very insulting things. The fact that you don't realize how insulting you were doesn't mean people have an obligation to feel good about being insulted. Frankly, I am surprised at how patient everyone has been with you so far.

You need to understand: It's not about you. We're not here to be mean to non-Natives. We are here to fight exploitation and racism. If you're here to do that, too, people will help you learn. Up to a point. You have to do some of your own heavy lifting. Have you read the threads and links people have suggested yet? Because I get the impression you haven't. If you can't even do that, people will probably give up on you.  

[Gwaewael]

Hi critter!  Some Native elders approve of the word “Indian”.  I’m not assuming this; I was told it a few times on this forum.  I myself am a white elder.  The word “Indian” is what I was raised with.  This is probably why many Native elders are comfortable with the word.  It’s a word from an earlier era.

Do Native elders use “NDN” when they type?  Probably many don’t.  It probably doesn’t attract people who were raised in earlier times.  I could be wrong.  Please drop the “NDN” thing, OK?  I probably don't like it because I'm an elder and set in my ways.

You said, “And then by some grand assumption you state there is only 1 native person on this board.”  What?  You mean me?  I’ve never said I’m Native.  What I’ve said is I’m a white, woman, 59-years old, New Age, eclectic neopagan.

You said, “Gwaewael, I apologize for calling you a white bloated pig. I realize that you are here to learn.”  Thanks so much, critter.  Now your insult has become funny.  “A white bloated pig.”  LOL  It’s very descriptive.

I have read the Do’s and Don’ts.  What threads do you suggest I read?  I actually don’t have time to read currently, since people keep writing posts to me, personally, and it takes all the time I have to answer.  I think it would be rude not to answer.  I hope these threads will peter out eventually.

You said “It helps to see things from someone else's perspective as much as possible. It helps in all areas of life, not just here.”  Thank you critter.  I’ll remember that.


Hi sky!  I’m sorry I didn’t you answer earlier.  I missed your post somehow when the thread moved to page 2.

Thank you for telling me how you self-identify.  No Native person has ever done that for me before.  That was very kind, and I appreciate it.

My issue with ‘ndn’ may be that I’m an elder and I don’t necessarily like new things.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Hi critter!  Some Native elders approve of the word “Indian”.  I’m not assuming this; I was told it a few times on this forum.  I myself am a white elder.  The word “Indian” is what I was raised with.  This is probably why many Native elders are comfortable with the word.  It’s a word from an earlier era.

Because some don't mind the word doesn't mean they approve of anyone using it. I think we are
hitting and missing due to word definitions. To me, to say someone approves of what I am doing/saying,
means someone has personally given me their approval. I can't say someone approves of what I'm
doing/saying unless they have actually said it to me, personally. Because I don't know their feelings,
thoughts, emotions on what I'm doing/saying, I can't honestly say if they approve or not.

Do Native elders use “NDN” when they type?  Probably many don’t.  It probably doesn’t attract people who were raised in earlier times.  I could be wrong.  Please drop the “NDN” thing, OK?  I probably don't like it because I'm an elder and set in my ways.

Well, I don't know. I'd have to find one who types and ask them. But, I'll let this drop as you request,
I'm not sure you really understand it. Maybe later. Do you mean you're an elder because
you're 59? Because there are different definitions of "elder". Just trying to understand
what you mean when you say you are an elder.

You said, “And then by some grand assumption you state there is only 1 native person on this board.”  What?  You mean me?  I’ve never said I’m Native.  What I’ve said is I’m a white, woman, 59-years old, New Age, eclectic neopagan.

Please re-read. I didn't say anything at all about you being native.

You said, “Gwaewael, I apologize for calling you a white bloated pig. I realize that you are here to learn.”  Thanks so much, critter.  Now your insult has become funny.  “A white bloated pig.”  LOL  It’s very descriptive.

I'm glad  you can laugh at it. I was just very frustrated and well..

I have read the Do’s and Don’ts.  What threads do you suggest I read?  I actually don’t have time to read currently, since people keep writing posts to me, personally, and it takes all the time I have to answer.  I think it would be rude not to answer.  I hope these threads will peter out eventually.

I gave some thread advice in the other thread. Under the Welcome & News there is in all caps saying
new members start here, and in that forum, there are 3 other topics that state new members should
read. After that, well, I can relate to there being so much info and not knowing where to start. So, just
start anywhere. That's what I did when I first came here. When I had some time I would just click
on various forums, read the topics and just click on any at random and read.. I can't really tell you
where to start, all I can say is start anywhere you like.

You said “It helps to see things from someone else's perspective as much as possible. It helps in all areas of life, not just here.”  Thank you critter.  I’ll remember that.

You're welcome.

I know you're busy responding to all of this, but it will settle down, and there is no hurry. And,
no one will be insulted if you don't respond right away, even if you respond a week later, or whenever
you are ready to respond is ok.  I know for myself, sometimes I have to let whatever I've read sit
a while and think on it a bit before I respond, especially if it's something that I'm not sure I really
understand, and usually when having a kneejerk reaction to what was posted. Cuz usually, that
means I'm misunderstanding what is being said..