Florentine Blue Thunder???

[AlessandroItaly]

Have you notice or informations to Florentine Blue Thunder? He live in Rosebud Reservation, is a Lakota Sicangu and leader of Sun Dance with many Italian and European peoples...is he good or fraud? Every year the Italian association "sentierorosso" organizes travels to Rosebud with persons who participate to its sundance like supporter ...In Italy we have information contrasting on he, also He is Teaching of Lakota language, some news that we know is good but others are bad,  I have found on Internet that it has signed one letter against the Arvol Looking Horse Statement on the protection of the ceremonies ...It says of being also descendant of Crazy Horse, Florentine says that Crazy Horse was not a oglala like written in the books, neither a minneconjou like written also to Little Big Horn, but was a sicangu... Its grandmother, Katie Roubideaux Blue Thunder, has been teaching its. The clan of Florentine calls “Ring Thunder???, seems to be known well in the Rosebud Reservation. Every year in Italy with this association "sentierorosso" arrives, I have organized last year a conference with Florentine, but now not think that is one good person...Now I'm a lot disappointed and angry....

[educatedindian]

I think you're right about him being a mix of good and bad. I would not call his a fraud, though he's done things I disagree with. He's done lots of good work with schools, language programs, environmental programs, the Sicangu Heritage center. But he also took part in one of the "Star Knowledge" Nuage/UFO gatherings. Many respected elders also attended (I deleted their names) so that by itself does not mean he's a fraud. He does oppose the Looking Horse Proclamation, but so do some other elders. Not because any of them are frauds or exploiters, but because they think it's the wrong way to deal with the problem.

If he's bringing Italians in to take part in the Sundance, again, that's something most Lakota disagree with, but not necessarily a sign of a fraud.

What happened that worries you? Contact me offlist if you want.

The Star Knowledge workshops:
"Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:04:32 -0700
 From: kitten@humboldt1.com
 Subj: For the Circles/all four
 To All of You who are attending the Gathering:
   The Lakota/Dakota Oyate invite all nations to come together for the
 spiritual gathering of the century.  Experience the knowledge of the
 Star Nations "Wicahpe Oyate" with many tribal medicine men, spiritual
 advisors, and UFO experts who will be sharing their latest knowledge
 on UFO's.  Sundance to follow the conference.
  June 12 - 16 Conference  
  Donation $100 before June 1st, $125 after
  All day pass $30    Workshops $25 per workshop
 For display/vendor tables, call Mary Kennedy at 703-442-6314 (Voice Mail)
 The tables are $75 each....
      INDIVIDUAL WORKSHOPS
 Workshops will be held in the Library and sign up can begin on 6/12 at
 9:00 a.m.
 Wednesday 6/12    5 - 7 p.m.   Dea Martin - READING AURAS
 Thursday 6/13     12 - 2 P.M.  Angela Brown-Miller -
                                 IMPLANT REMOVAL AND DEATH OF
                                 OUR PROGRAMMING
                   3 - 5 p.m.   Dr. Richard Boylan -
                                 THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF ET ENCOUNTERS
                   5 - 7 p.m.   Dr. Steven Greer - GREETING GROUP CONTACT
                                 AND EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE
 Friday 6/14       9 - 11 a.m.  Mary Kennedy - INTRO THE TRANSFORMATIONAL
                                 BREATH:  CREATING A NEW REALITY
                   11 - 1 p.m.  Darryl Sims - PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF ROSWELL
                                 CRASH
                   5 - 7 p.m.   Steven Dean - SUCCESSFUL METHOD OF ET CONTACT
 Saturday 6/15     9 - 11 a.m.  Chet Snow - STARSEEDS:  LOOKING FOR OUR
                                 CELESTIAL ORIGINS
                   2 - 4 p.m.   Whitley Streiber - THE SACRED SCHOOL
                   4:30 - 6:30 p.m.  Joshua Shapiro - MYSTERIES OF THE
                                 CRYSTAL SKULLS REVEALED
 Sunday 6/16       9 - 11 a.m.   Robert Dean (not yet announced)
                   4 - 6 p.m.    Al Fast Thunder - New World Order
                         SPEAKERS SCHEDULE FOR STAR KNOWLEDGE CONFERENCE
 1 - 2 p.m.     >>>>> INVOCATION WITH STANDING ELK AND FLORENTINE BLUE THUNDER
 2:30 - 4:30     Barbara Marciniak, Channeler for the Pleiadians
 6 - 7           Robert Dean, UFO Field Investigator
 11 - 12         Al Fast Thunder     New World Order
 12 - 1          Dr. Richard Boylan - Effects on Society of Public
                    Disclosure of Extraterrestrial Presence
 4 - 5           Dr. Steven Greer - The Foundation of Universal Peace
 5 - 6           Dr. Rauni Kilde - cosmic contacts:  A Scandinavian Viewpoint
 10 - 11         Dea Martin - The Aura of Mother Earth
 11 - 12         Georgio Bongiovanni - Fatima Prophecies and Appearances of
                    the Christ to him.
 12 - 1          Dr. Leo Sprinkle - Personal Analysis of UFO Experiences
 10 - 11         Joshua Shapiro - The Crystal Skull:  UFO Connection
 3 - 4           Tom Hudson - representing Grandmother Twylah Hurd Nitsch
 4 - 5           Standing Elk, Lakota Spiritual Advisor
 5 - 6           Wallace Black"

[tahcha_sapa]

The Wacipi at the annual Rosebud Fair is perhaps the only one in the country where the males and females dance together at the same time, BUT in different directions.  The females dance clockwise in the center, the males dance counter-clockwise in the outer ring. There's old Flo, the winkte, dressed up in traditional male regalia, dancing with the males and his squeeze, Joe -- a non-native -- also dressed up in male regalia, dances with the males, too. Is this an issue? I don't know, but people can decide this for themselves. I mean, if Flo's proudly winkte, wouldn't he dress up as one and dance as one? Where's the purse? Where's the shawl? Where's the beaded buckskin dress?
There was a fellow, his last name was "Dog Soldier", who was a Lakota winkte and used to dress up, and dance, as a female in the Winner, SD, area. So, apparently, this was the Lakota winkte tradition. Flo, what's up? Why? 
Harold "White Horse" Thompson was a key person in getting Flo's "Winkte" sundance off the ground. Harold started his sundance a year or so later.
 

[maxcinedancingotter7474]

having spent time with flori am sure she is like most of trying live in the this mixed up world .it is a very fine line that we tread .iam a winkte in the uk i dance in a womens dress .i visted makatoe powwow in 1997 and was aked to take of the dress that i were i refused and left having ask the elders i will return one day for there was a medicine man who asked how normaly dance i said as awinkte.it seems that there is conflict on this thourgh all native americans yet am i right in saying that some of the winktes of the past were good warroirs as wellif we all stopped for awhile and listened to what mother earth was saying and started to walk to the same centre then. maybe we here whats in our hearts.as to wether flori is a fraeud  well put it this way we all at some time of our lifes stepped in to the dark and found what it is like and then come back to  the same road.

[tahcha_sapa]

The clan of Florentine calls “Ring Thunder???, seems to be known well in the Rosebud Reservation. Every year in Italy with this association "sentierorosso" arrives, I have organized last year a conference with Florentine, but now not think that is one good person...Now I'm a lot disappointed and angry....

Ring Thunder doesn't quite have the prominence on the Rosebud reservation that Florentine would like to convince others -- others not from the reservation -- that it has. It's a tiny community. Nothing else.
Back in 2000, Florentine was a key person in a Gay Pride parade, I think, in San Francisco, CA. He painted a rather self-serving, self-aggrandizing portrait -- not only of the rez but also of his, and his community's, prominence to the organizers of that parade and anyone who would listen.
So, after that event when he returned to the rez, he slapped the parade officials with whopping fees that had not been a part of any agreement of his participation in that event. Apparently, he was quite histrionic about his demands.
So, you're not missing anything by NOT having old Flo as a part of your event. In fact, you're better off without old Flo. You don't have to believe me. Just talk to the organizers of the SF Gay Parade that year. They'll tell you.

[bcolinshazel]

I went to flo's sundance back in the day and there are thins that didnt sit well with me. first of all there was a lot of hostility from the locals, second most people were there for a vacation and third, we got screamed at a lot.

it doesnt seem right to me.