'specialness' and fraud detection question

[snorks]

After reading several threads about frauds, it seems that the frauds all claim some sort of specialness - a special relationship or a blood relationship that makes them bona fide shamans or whatever.  Is this one way of detecting a fraud?

The only encounter I ever had with a 'special' person was years ago when Mr. Geronimo came to the FolkLife Festival held in Washington D.C.  He was there with the Apaches who were demonstrating parts of their culture.  There were sessions where the public could ask questions about Apache culture.  Mr. Geronimo was a very serious man who was not really interested in teaching white people about 'special prophecies' etc.  He was gracious in answering our questions about his culture, but drew a line in discussing sacred issues.

I can contrast that with Eaglebear who also claims to be relative of Mr. Geronimo.  He, according to his website, seems eager to teach every white person willing to pay money.  He talks about special teachings etc. that he was commissioned to pass on.

How finely tuned do I need to have my fraud detector to be?  And how do I separate out who really does have a reserved position in a tribe with someone who claims they are a 'pipe carrier'?

[debbieredbear]

Seems like your fraud detecter is working. When I see someone that has no, or few, Indian people around him, I get a red flag. When they say they were told to go out and teach non-Indians, I get a red flag. When they claim their knowledge is "so special" or "so secret" that many members of their own tribe don't know it, I think fraud. If someone seems out of touch with their own culture, that is a red flag. By that I mean "Cherokees" teaching "Lakota" ways. Or, as that Eaglebear character does, an Apache sundancing? There are lots more red flags, but maybe some others will have their ideas too.

[PLH]

Names and alleged Spirit guides are interesting things to consider.
Have you ever noticed that so many of the frauds have a name that indicates some kind of imagined power?
Ah and the Spirit guides are usually big and powerful too. I don't think I have ever seen where a wannabe brags about having ant as a guide.
I have run into those claiming to be mixed Cherokee that toss in a bunch of stuff. You know, the Cherokee Pipe Carrier that Sweats?
It is reasonable to me if someone claims to be NDN and has "secret powers or special gifts", tells everyone and anyone how "special" they are....well the only thing real about them is their own mental illness.
Humility is a key, we are not likely to meet someone that is highly reverenced by their people, that will tell you he/she is. They don't need to feel powerful, they don't need people to boost their egos. 8-)

[Colville girl]

I think there's a difference between frauds and sellouts.

Frauds are those who claim ndn blood (and can't prove it) and use it to justify teaching the masses- charging money or not. They are the ones that claim they have been given the responsibility to teach non-Indians. They also mix and match different spiritual paths into one big spiritual soup.

Sellouts are real medicine people who, for reasons of greed and ego, are out there teaching the masses in a very public way.

I'd add a third category. I'm not sure what to call them, but they are the non-Indians who you'll find professing to be Sundancers, pipe carriers, sweat leaders, etc. They may not be doing it publicly, but they still use the argument that these spiritual ways were given to all the people, not just Indians. They claim they have the right to do these things (indeed that they are special), and get very defensive when the subject comes up. They live in the fishbowl of entitlement.

[Chutwood]

Names and alleged Spirit guides are interesting things to consider.
Have you ever noticed that so many of the frauds have a name that indicates some kind of imagined power?


That is so true, and it is particularly annoying to someone like me who has a 'different' name.  My legal on-birth-certificate name is Storm.  My father's name was Smogleum, called "Smoky" for short and he wanted his daughter's name to be close to his..hence Storm.

It was tough enough being a girl/child named Storm, but now my credibility is questioned or unknowledgeable folks try and bestow some kind of mystical power one me because of the name.  

In joking, a friend of mine named herself 'Runs With Scissors".  Gee, wish I had thought of that.

Storm

[Sparks]

I think there's a difference between frauds and sellouts.

Frauds are those who claim ndn blood (and can't prove it) and use it to justify teaching the masses- charging money or not. They are the ones that claim they have been given the responsibility to teach non-Indians. They also mix and match different spiritual paths into one big spiritual soup.

Sellouts are real medicine people who, for reasons of greed and ego, are out there teaching the masses in a very public way.

I'd add a third category. I'm not sure what to call them, but they are the non-Indians who you'll find professing to be Sundancers, pipe carriers, sweat leaders, etc. They may not be doing it publicly, but they still use the argument that these spiritual ways were given to all the people, not just Indians. They claim they have the right to do these things (indeed that they are special), and get very defensive when the subject comes up. They live in the fishbowl of entitlement.

(My emphasis.) There must be thousands of the third category in Europe alone, and many of them are very public. Before you would find them at New Age meeting places in both large and small cities, then they got their own Internet sites, and finally, now they are proliferating on Facebook.

I have noticed hundreds of them operating in the Nordic countries (Scandinavia and Finland) over the past 40 years. My experience with them is mostly in Norway and Sweden. I have argued against such people for at least 30 years.

Yes, they are very defensive, and usually they get very angry with me when I gently expose their almost complete ignorance of the Native American Nations' demography, ethnography, geography, history, languages, and religions. Many of them seem to sincerely believe there is just one Native American people with one language ("THE 'Indian' Language") and one religion (THE 'Indian' Religion). Many of them claim to have taken lessons and initiations from one or more of the notorious frauds that can be looked up here at the NAFPS forum. A number of these frauds have toured Scandinavia, where they meet little resistance.

Almost without exception, they have coined an English-language "'Indian'-sounding" name for themselves, but they do not pretend to actually be Native Americans, so i'd not call them 'pretendians'. — When looking at Colville girl's description, what would you call them?

[earthw7]

I find that the words used by individuals is my first signal
*the word "AHO" (which is a Kiowa word) and * Mitakuye Oyasin"
*Then the use of the word Shaman
*I was adopted into a tribe
*when money is used for ceremony-cant pay to pray
* the misuse of a pipe carrier- just because you have pipe don't make you a pipe carrier
* Sundancer-just because you sun dance don't give you any right to assume ceremonies
* incorrect tribal history
Cant answer the questions--
Who is your family, what are grandparents name, what is you land base, what is your native name
are you enrolled