Dr. Rosanne Lindsay of Turtle Island Provider Network

[White Horse]

This woman created her own tribe and is selling tribal memberships for $35 a year to join her tribe and selling licenses to practice medicine, you must be one of her tribal members for her or one of her providers to treat you. 

Providers: $385.00 + 4.5% fee on gross revenues
(Will receive Registration, License to Practice and ID Card)

Provider who work for a registered Turtle Island Healing Center/Priory: $335.00
Revenue fees are paid by the Healing Center/Priory you are working under.
(Will receive: Registration and ID Card)

Technician: $199.00 (Must be working under a Turtle Island Healing Center/Priory)
Revenue fees are paid by the Healing Center/Priory you are working under.
(Will receive: Registration and ID Card)

Student or Apprentice: $99.00 (Must be working under a Turtle Island Healing Center/Priory)
Revenue fees are paid by the Healing Center/Priory you are working under.
(Will receive: Registration and ID Card)

Check out these links for more info:

http://www.turtleislandnetwork.org/sign-up-costs/

http://www.natureofhealing.org/turtle-island-provider/

http://www.natureofhealing.org/turtle-island-provider/

 

[Piff]

She's part of the "Sacred Catholic Church of the East" scheme http://www.turtleislandnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2016-014-Priory-Turtle-Island.pdf which is this weirdness https://www.nongov508c1a.org/application-form https://www.psfnhsp.org/

[educatedindian]

http://www.turtleislandnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Constitution-and-Bylaws-Grand-Priory-of-Turtle-Island.pdf
The Grand Priory of Turtle Island is an international, nonprofit
Corporate Sole dedicated to the healing of people and the land
through mostly monastic or indigenous measures.
Section 2: The international headquarters are in Papantla, Veracruz,
Mexico and span the United States, Mexico, and all of the Caribbean
Islands, which is the ancient Turtle Island.
ARTICLE II:
NATURE AND PURPOSE
Section 1: The Provider Network of the the Grand Priory of Turtle Island
is made up of Doctors and Practitioners of all types, such as Medical
Doctors, Chiropractors, Osteopaths, Naturopathic and Naturopathic
Medical Doctors, health coaches and others working in a natural health
capacity, as well as agriculture and business executives, who want to aid
in economic development of indigenous groups and others desiring
natural healing for themselves and their land.
Section 2: Most of Providers of the Grand Priory of Turtle Island have
graduated from state licensed schools and qualify to get licenses in each
state.
Section 3: However, some people wish to go under an alternative
licensing system which is not under the state boards.
Section 4: The Sovereign Ecclesiastical Principality of the Church of the
East, is the Government of the Far Eastern Orthodox Apostolic Church, a
Church which was founded in 52 a.d. by St Thomas, one of the original
12 apostles, and the only Church in the world with an apostolic line going
all the way back to the beginning of the Church Age.
Section 5: The Orthodox Churches were the first ones to have hospitals,
and the first to organize and teach indigenous and monastic medicine.
ARTICLE III:
RULES FOR NOMINATIONS
Section 1: Around 900 years ago, the Church Organized various Knight
Hospitaller Orders whose mission was to protect the pilgrims traveling to
Jerusalem and tend to the sick and the wounded as a result of the
attacks of the Moors.
Section 2: The Knights of St. John of Jerusalem and the Knights of St.
James are two groups which, even today, are dedicated to healing the
sick and doing humanitarian projects, all through monastic and
indigenous medicine.
Section 3: The Sovereign Ecclesiastical Principality of the Church of the
East authorizes the Grand Priory of Turtle Island to set up Priories
(healing centers) all across the U.S., under Monastic, Indigenous, Holistic
and Dynastic exceptions.
Section 4: Each will be run by Knights in the Hospitaller tradition of
treating the whole person, body, soul and spirit. Those that work in these
centers, as well as the people that come for treatment, do not have to
have the same belief in God; they must just have the desire to be able
to have a choice of how they want to deal with the condition that they
have without the state getting involved.
Section 5: All people coming for services must join as a private member
of the priory, not the Church, and they have automatic membership to all
other priories in the system.
Section 6: This is not available to the general public- we do not deal
with the public at all. The mission continues to aid the indigenous
people....

---------
https://www.drnuzum.com/clinic/
Nuzum’s Naturals is a tribal clinic. We belong to the Turtle Island Provider Network, which gives Dr. Nuzum the right to practice holistic medicine freely and for his patients to receive it. The Turtle Island Network licenses providers, clinics, hospitals and universities of state and federal jurisdiction.

Dr. Nuzum is licensed by the network in:
Indigenous Natural Medicine
Indigenous Drugless Osteopathy/Chropathy (Hands on healing)
Indigenous Oriental Tribal Medicine

--------
https://opencorpdata.com/us-co/20161541463
TURTLE ISLAND PROVIDER NETWORK,LLC
Entity ID   20161541463
Entity Status   Good Standing
Entity Form Date   2016-08-10
Entity Type   Foreign Limited Liability Company (FLLC)
Principal Address   13995 HWY 29 NORTH #300 Chatham VA 24531
Agent Organization   CJS SUPPORT INC
Agent Address   8533 W Colfax Ave 104 Lakewood CO 80215

--------
https://www.shamanicpassagesinstitute.com/courses/the-power-of-the-shamanic-journey
Gerry Starnes, M.Ed., is an Austin, Texas area teacher, facilitator, and practitioner. He is the author of Spirit Paths: The Quest for Authenticity, and several other spirit-oriented publications.

Gerry has offered workshops and presentation for more than 15 years. In 2003, he established the first shamanic journey circle in Austin....Gerry is a shamanic and Reiki practitioner, and a Traditional Tribal Healer of the Turtle Island Provider Network.

Education Masters of Education (M.Ed) in Psychology, Special Education, and Education.
Experience and Distinctions Shamanic Practitioner and Teacher, Usui Reiki Master/Teacher
Traditional Tribal Healer, Turtle Island Providers Network

---------
https://www.narutka.com/ncim-admissions.html
o attend courses at the Private Narutka College of Indigenous Medicine, an approved college under the Totonaca Tribe of Veracruz, Mexico, requires Turtle Island Provider Network membership.

Student Admissions fee includes the first year annual membership and when a student is ready to gain student clinical hours working with patients, a membership may be required to be upgraded to a “Student” membership.  Membership provides several benefits:

Tax Benefits:  We are recognized non-profit business as a "Tribal Off-Shore Provider" designation; therefore all money’s spent at the college, including fees and materials are 100% tax deductible....

[Piff]

SACRED CATHOLIC CHURCH OF THE EAST CORPORATE SOLE
Status    Good Standing    
Formation date    08/02/2017
ID number    20171592457    
Form    Nonprofit Corporation
Periodic report month    August    
Jurisdiction    Colorado
Principal office street address    319 9TH AVE SOUTH SUITE 104, NAMPA, ID 83651, United States
Principal office mailing address    n/a
Registered Agent
Name    CDIS INC
Street address    8533 W. Colfax Ave # 104, Lakewood, CO 80215, United States
Mailing address    319 9TH AVE SOUTH SUITE 104, NAMPA, CO 83651, United States

Incorporation by  Daniel Nuzum

-------------

So are these like nesting dolls? Sacred Church of the East as mother church, Turtle Island Provider Network part of that, then Rosanne Lindsay has bought into her own branch?

[White Horse]

The fact that they are selling Medical Licenses is what concerns me, is that legal?  I know each state has their own criteria but can anyone sell Medical Licenses?  These people practicing under their Medical License are they committing Malpractice? 

[RedRightHand]

Yeah, what kind of person says that just by giving them money you can join their made-up tribe... 

[educatedindian]

This thread at a medical student forum discusses that. Short answer is they are naturopath quacks in a grey legal area, but definitely unethical. They reported one of the TIPNs for misrepresentation to the state medical board.

------
https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/this-feels-so-slimy.1223325/
This feels so slimy
Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by kelminak, Sep 26, 2016.k
kelminak said:
https://www.drnuzum.com/dr-nuzum/
I found this naturopathic quackazoid exists in my state and claims to have a DO degree. In his "credentials", he studied at National University of Medical Sciences, which is a school that offers a DO degree online? Why is this possible? What can he actually do with this "degree"? It feels like it shouldn't even be legal to claim he's a DO. What do you all think?

femmegoblue said: ?
This is a Spanish "DO" degree, so I assume anyone coming here would have to repeat medical school anyway.
Can they even do anything with this kind of degree in the US? I found him on Facebook on a post about the new ICOM acting like he's a real DO. God I hate naturopathic **** SO MUCH.

kelminak said: ?
Can they even do anything with this kind of degree in the US? I found him on Facebook on a post about the new ICOM acting like he's a real DO. God I hate naturopathic **** SO MUCH.
It looks like he makes his money selling his supplements online. Snake oil salesman? I have seen youtube videos of a guy named Dr. Glidden that has a book called "Fire your MD"
There is a small force of ND that seem to lobbying across the nation and at the same time demonizing MD and saying physicians are being controlled by "big pharma",


First, my understanding is that the US is the only place that DO = physician. In most of the world, osteopaths operate essentially within the same scope as chiropractors.

Second, even if it this "doctor" were truly a physician in his country, he could not legally practice medicine in the United States without going through several years worth of hoops, including, iirc, going through a full residency.

As for the ND part... who knows. It's totally dependent upon the state. He could, potentially, be a PCP and use OMT on his patients. Legally, again, his scope would be relatively limited. What he does in practice, of course, is anybody's guess.

hurtem&healem said: ?
Not necessarily true. US trained DOs are fully recognized physicians in most first world countries aside from Japan and France if I remember correctly.

As for the ND bs, they should really be banned in the US. It's quackery that feeds off of the whole "California anti-vaxxer organic vegan hippie crap". Like being largely benign like chiropractors is one thing, but these people literally lead the stupid and misinformed astray and put their health at risk by feeding off of the big pharma fears and Naturopathy BS that is favored by the millennial crowd.

lnguyen1412 said: ?
US is the only country that trained DO to become a physician atm.
So can I go to some osteopathic "school" in Spain and claim to be a DO in the US? Isn't there something wrong about that?

Thanks to good ole A.T. Still. However, a US trained DO can practice in almost every first world countries except Sweden?, France and Japan.

ATPsynthase123 said: ?
Yeah. As long as you can obtain license from that country. DO is treated like physician at those country list in AOA list.

kelminak said: ?
So can I go to some osteopathic "school" in Spain and claim to be a DO in the US? Isn't there something wrong about that?
You won't be recognized to practice in US. Same thing as FMGs that have MD. They need to go through residency . But in case of DO, I think you need to start over since DO is only trained in the US.

ATPsynthase123 said: ?
US trained DOs are fully recognized physicians in most first world countries
The person in question is not US trained. Hence, he is not a physician. The United States is the only country in which DOs are trained as physicians. The actual degree isn't even the same. Internationally, DO is Doctor of Osteopathy. In the US, DO is Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine.

lnguyen1412 said: ?
No. As long as you obtain a DO from the USA, you can practice as a physician in those other countries on the list. Although, to be precise, I don't know that means you can become licensed in those countries. For example, a US MD moving to Canada must practice under the supervision of a Canadian physician for a year or two, and may have to practice in a rural setting for some time depending on the province (not 100% on that part). I have no idea if Canada would ever license a DO, and even less of a clue about countries further removed from American influence.

A person who obtained a DO in any country besides the USA cannot practice as a physician anywhere in the world.

There is indeed something wrong with that in spirit, but the legality is highly variable dependent upon the state. They may be able to say they are an osteopath/they practice osteopathy (idk if that's actually true anywhere, just saying it may be). I'm certain they absolutely can't say they are an osteopathic physician/practice osteopathic medicine. Some manipulation is within the scope of naturopathic medicine, so he may be able to do it under that license. Again, this is dependent upon the state as to what level of manipulation that license will cover. As for actually using the DO title... I have no idea legally, but if he holds a doctorate degree in osteopathy, then he is technically a DO... of sorts. Just like a chiropractor is, technically, a doctor, just not of the physician variety.

kelminak said: ?
The title "DO" and "osteopathic medicine" is a protected title, just like MD and "medical doctor" and claiming to be an osteopath or osteopathic physician in most state is actually illegal.

His clinic is in Idaho, and the relevant state law is as follows

54-1804. UNLICENSED PRACTICE -- PENALTIES AND REMEDIES RELATING TO UNLICENSED PRACTICE.

(3) Except as provided in subsections (1)(a), (1)(b), and (1)(c) above, it is unlawful for any person to assume or use the title or designation "medical doctor," "medical physician," "osteopathic doctor," "osteopathic physician," "M.D." or "D.O." or any other title, designation, words, letters, abbreviation, sign, card, or device to indicate to the public that such person is licensed to practice medicine pursuant to this chapter unless such person is so licensed, and upon conviction thereof, such person shall be imprisoned not to exceed one (1) year, or shall be fined not more than three thousand dollars ($3,000), or shall be punished by both fine and imprisonment.

However, his clinic also appears to be located on an Indian Reservation, and he claims to be licensed through "Turtle Island Provider Network" ... since I'm not a lawyer, I do not know what extent his "credentials" are in relationship to state laws, federal laws, and tribal laws.

Geo16 said:
Most legitimate osteopathy schools outside the US don't award "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine" ... DO actually stands for "Diploma of Osteopathy"

The British College of Osteopathic Medicine (BCOM/UK) offers the Diploma of Osteopathy, and their academic degrees is the BSc (Hons) and Master of Osteopathy (validated by Plymouth University)

The European School of Osteopathy (ESO) also offers the Diploma of Osteopathy and their academic degree is the Master of Osteopathy

There are only a handful of "schools" that would try to confuse the picture by offering the Doctor of Osteopathy or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree ... I'll let you decide/imagine what the purposes of those non-AOA (and non-US) institutions are by offering such "degrees"

group_theory said: ?
DO actually stands for "Diploma of Osteopathy"
This school actually uses "Doctor of Osteopathy" as the title of their degree. Not Diploma of Osteopathy.
http://www.numss.com/DO.html
This is why it's scary. Can they make misleading degrees like this? Wouldn't it cause some dispute between two countries and therefore, leading to loss of accreditation of this school? Can AOA order cease and desist order to protect actual U.S. DOs? So that people can't use the title "DO" to mislead other people.

Don't get me wrong, @group_theory , I get your point. There are other countries that award respectful and certified Osteopathic Medicine degrees. However, calling it flat-out "Doctor of Osteopathy" should be illegal even outside the U.S. Because of the cases just like this.

For example - in the UK, DOs (UK/European trained osteopaths) is a recognized profession and is regulated by the General Osteopathic Council (GOC). For US trained DOs (as well as all IMGs as well as UK trained physicians), they go through the General Medical Council (GMC). Someone not certified by the GOC in the UK cannot claim and cannot practice as an osteopath.

Spain does not recognize osteopathy as a profession, so the titles aren't protected. In the US, the ND degree is state dependent - some states recognized ND from certain schools and only NDs from those school can call themselves naturopaths. Other states don't recognize NDs so anyone (whether from a known ND school, or a fly-by-night online ND school) can call themselves naturopaths.

In Ontario, only a member of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario can use the title “osteopath”

To be honest, I'm not even sure if this school is recognized by the government of Spain to give academic degrees (I couldn't find information on their website, and they claim that their DO program is accredited by the Council of Manual Osteopathy Education)
group_theory, Sep 26, 2016 #20

kelminak said:

This guy is an "ND", making him a naturopathic doctor, which is likely the degree under which he is licensed and advertises.

hurtem&healem said: ?
No. As long as you obtain a DO from the USA, you can practice as a physician in those other countries on the list. Although, to be precise, I don't know that means you can become licensed in those countries. For example, a US MD moving to Canada must practice under the supervision of a Canadian physician for a year or two, and may have to practice in a rural setting for some time depending on the province (not 100% on that part). I have no idea if Canada would ever license a DO, and even less of a clue about countries further removed from American influence.

A person who obtained a DO in any country besides the USA cannot practice as a physician anywhere in the world.


There is indeed something wrong with that in spirit, but the legality is highly variable dependent upon the state. They may be able to say they are an osteopath/they practice osteopathy (idk if that's actually true anywhere, just saying it may be). I'm certain they absolutely can't say they are an osteopathic physician/practice osteopathic medicine. Some manipulation is within the scope of naturopathic medicine, so he may be able to do it under that license. Again, this is dependent upon the state as to what level of manipulation that license will cover. As for actually using the DO title... I have no idea legally, but if he holds a doctorate degree in osteopathy, then he is technically a DO... of sorts. Just like a chiropractor is, technically, a doctor, just not of the physician variety.
Click to expand...
You have to be licensed in most countries to practice independently. The only time this wouldn't be the case would be through aid organizations, in which case you have to be licensed in your home country (e.g. if you as a US DO/MD wanted to work for DWB/MSF you'd have to be licensed in the US).

Canada does license DOs in the same way that it licenses any foreign physicians. They need to have the LMCC (complete Canadian exams and 12 mos acceptable/equivalent training), complete appropriate residency for their field/province, and be certified by the CFPC, RCPSC, or CMQ.
hallowmann, Sep 26, 2016 #21

hallowmann said:
He refers to himself specifically this way: "He is also a licensed Tribal Practitioner with and counsel licensed Doctor of Natural Medicine and an Osteopathic Doctor". He also uses DO as one of the credentials after his name. Isn't that blatant enough to be against the law? @group_theory posted this (thanks btw):

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"54-1804. UNLICENSED PRACTICE -- PENALTIES AND REMEDIES RELATING TO UNLICENSED PRACTICE.

(3) Except as provided in subsections (1)(a), (1)(b), and (1)(c) above, it is unlawful for any person to assume or use the title or designation "medical doctor," "medical physician," "osteopathic doctor," "osteopathic physician," "M.D." or "D.O." or any other title, designation, words, letters, abbreviation, sign, card, or device to indicate to the public that such person is licensed to practice medicine pursuant to this chapter unless such person is so licensed, and upon conviction thereof, such person shall be imprisoned not to exceed one (1) year, or shall be fined not more than three thousand dollars ($3,000), or shall be punished by both fine and imprisonment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Doesn't that pretty much consist of a title that indicates to the public he's licensed to practice medicine? Is it possible for me to report this person in some regard? I don't want this quackery nutzo using DO the way he is (and I just generally hate all psuedoscience crap).

Gonna bumperino this because I still want to do something about this person. Would contacting the Idaho Board of Medicine be the right avenue?

DrBowtie said:
They may not have jurisdiction on Indian land.
While his website talks a lot about tribal medicine, it looks like his practice is in Nampa and he claims to serve the entire Treasure Valley, none of which is on Indian land.



However, his clinic also appears to be located on an Indian Reservation, and he claims to be licensed through "Turtle Island Provider Network" ... since I'm not a lawyer, I do not know what extent his "credentials" are in relationship to state laws, federal laws, and tribal laws.
Click to expand...
grapples43 said: ?
While his website talks a lot about tribal medicine, it looks like his practice is in Nampa and he claims to serve the entire Treasure Valley, none of which is on Indian land.
Was just going off what was said above.

His Facebook lists him as a Ph.D and his videos list his name as DO, NMD - the order is intentional I am sure.
Cawolf, Oct 3, 2016 #28
 kelminak
kelminak
5+ Year Member
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603
Jan 16, 2012
Cawolf said: ?
His Facebook lists him as a Ph.D and his videos list his name as DO, NMD - the order is intentional I am sure.
Right?? Isn't that so frustrating? I just emailed the Idaho Board of Medicine, let's see how this plays out.