Intro and important question

[Primal]

Hello, I'm a 29 yr old male.  Like many Americans, my ethnic makeup is a mixture of many different cultures, mainly French Canadian, some Irish, Dutch, German, etc etc, including at least 1/32 Cherokee, verified by my father's research into our family tree.

Now, I am not into New Age things at all.  In fact, my family and I have been going to a Pentecostal Christian church since I was very young.  However,  I can't hide the fact that I seem to be drawn to and becoming interested in the Cherokee practice of a Vision Quest.  In fact, my search on the internet for it has lead me here.  Something about being alone in nature, observing it and having some kind of contact with God or the Great Spirit seems very natural and real to me.

But I have seen the fake and New Agy stuff (I had no idea so many frauds were out there on this subject) and was curious; where do you go if interested in a real Cherokee Vision Quest?  I would like to know the proper rituals and get an interpretation and guidance from a true Cherokee who is knowledgable in such things.  Would the Cherokee even honor this request?  Or do you have to be an offically recognized Cherokee for such things?

Thank you.

[piya]

Hi Primal, and welcome.

I can not comment on Cherokee ceromonies, nor do I even know if a vision quest is part of the culture. Our Cherokee members here will put you right on that.

What I would like to say, is that, whatever tribe, ceromonies are community based, and not individual, even the Vision Quest.

So you must be prepared to seek out a respected elder, when that elder gets to know you and your true intentions they may guide you the right way, but be aware, this can and will take some considerable time, and also you must be willing to be part of all the trribal culture, and not just a vision quest. There are no shortcuts!.

Piya

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Hello Primal. Cherokees here may wish to respond to some of your questions but I'll just briefy address this

However,  I can't hide the fact that I seem to be drawn to and becoming interested in the Cherokee practice of a Vision Quest.  In fact, my search on the internet for it has lead me here.  Something about being alone in nature, observing it and having some kind of contact with God or the Great Spirit seems very natural and real to me.

with a question of my own. Why is it important for you to dress these experiences up in "Indian" trappings?

[educatedindian]

Without realizing it, you illustrate two of the main problems caused by Nuagers. The vision quest is primarily a Plains ceremony, one intended usually for adolescent boys.

But Nuage frauds pretend that anyone can do this ceremony, and that all NDNs practice it, neither of which are true. They pretend these things are true for the money and to have power over people who don't know the cultures.

So the second point I would bring up to you is ask why does this appeal to you and seem natural? The answer is one you probably won't like: They are appealing to the *stereotypes* of Native people you have been taught, not the real thing.

Natives do a lot more as people than just sit and commune with nature all day. And we are far from the only cultures to do our best to respect nature.

I'm always curious as to why whites (and People of Distant Indian Ancestry such as yourself) feel they need to do ceremonies to understand or be more like Natives. I admire many aspects of Jewish culture, but I'm not about to get circumcised. (Like a vision quest, it's best done at a particular age anyway.) For me it's enough to read great authors like Elie Wiesel and Noam Chomsky, or even watch a Woody Allen movie.

[Primal]

For me, doing a Vision Quest would put me alone in nature for some soul searching and to find an elusive "direction" for my life, without any distractions from the modern American lifestyle.  I personally think our society is so far removed from a natural way of living, that we fail to experience and think about things that our ancestors (whoever the may be) did and it leaves a "hole" or "emptyness"  in some of our spirits.  At least it does mine.

The only reason I seek the Cherokee tradition for this is b/c it is a part of my history, despite how small it may be.  And, as far as I know, it is the only part of my heritage that offers this thing I feel I need.

Yes, I'm mostly "white" (even that means nothing, as I have a mixed "white" heritage too).  But I believe God, the Great Spirit or whoever "talks" to people in certain ways.  In Jewish tradition, Moses spoke with God in the wilderness while alone on a mountain and found a calling for his life.  In many Native cultures, they go out into the wilderness alone seeking visions and direction for their lives.  I think it is a natural thing to do despite your heritage, one we in modern society maybe can't appreciate since most of us are so far removed from a natural way of life.  Plus, it would fill an emptiness within myself.

That might seem nuage to some of you, but to me, I think it's a very natural thing to seek in a time where our lives are very unnatural.  Trying to reconnect with God through his creation in a way that people used to.  Not sitting on a pew in a mult-million dollar building listening to someone talk week after week and singing a few songs.

[educatedindian]

I think you missed a couple important points:

There is no such thing as a "Cherokee Vision Quest" as far as I know.

They do have a coming of age ceremony, which I admit I don't know much about, and you should ask the Cherokees here about. But anyway, you're about twice the age of anyone doing a vision quest, or for a Cherokee coming of age ceremony.

What you seem to want is a quick fix, fast food religion or spirituality, an easy out. For something this important, this SACRED, there are no quick fixes, and there never should be.

Just like if someone wanted to convert to Judaism, or merely take part in temple, chopping off your foreskin is no quick fix. It won't automatically make you understand the God of the Old Testament. Only immersing yourself in the beliefs and patiently listening to the advice of adherent and clergy will.

I think your goals are certainly worthy, just not the way you want to obtain them. But you can learn to listen to nature WITHOUT a phony "Cherokee vision quest." It's not something you learn over the weekend. It's a relationship you should slowly build and cultivate over a lifetime.  

BTW, most Cherokees, even the most traditional elders, are also Christian, the most common denomination being Southern Baptist I think.

[Joseph]

I can say without fear of being corrected that we (Cherokee that is) DO NOT HAVE A VISION QUEST.

Joseph

[plz]

Dear Primal,
I'm just an old white woman who has two daughters your age...

I hear your angst and wish I had an 'easy' answer for you.   There are in fact certain times in our lives where we feel an inner movement towards change/adjustment.  You are at one of the most important for the rest of your life.

My hope for you is now that the student (you) are ready, the teacher will appear.  In a good and honest way, someone wise and gentle.  And not asking you for money for the lessons.

You can go yourself into the wilderness if you choose, for deep thought and contemplation.  You can go within anywhere that is quiet.   You don't have to 'name' it.   It is a human right to do so.

Wishing you the very best,
pattyz

[Dragonessa]

Dear Primal,

I, too, once faced that gnawing craving for a deeper connection to what gets called broadly (and abstractly) "Nature".

That we look upon the natural world so broadly is part of the problem. ? A writer I admire named Derrick Jensen, when asked by eco-activists what he thought they should do to overcome their cultural alienation from the land said, "Pick a territory, make it sacred, and fight like hell."

It seems to me then the first step is to fall into deep respect for a specific place and put yourself in service to that place, however your service is needed. ? In other words love, rootedness, and committment, preferrably allied with others of like mind.

This is a long process, however, and will require patience and forebearance. ? But the sense of purpose and the peace that come from engagement with this process, I can tell you from experience, are great.

Best wishes.

Dragonessa

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

In our region, among the Cree and Metis people, we have the concept of "fasting" which can be done by ones self, in the bush or any other "quiet" place.  This allows me to open my Spirit up to Nature and, if I choose to listen, I will be able to find out more about myself and what my future path may be.

As I understand Spirituality to be a very personal experience, I have found this to be very beneficial for my Spiritual well-being.

Hope this helps.
Ric