Working with UK pagans

[Chutwood]

Ariel,

I, too, am an "Indian".  Specifically, I am of the Puyallup Nation, which is Coast Salish.   I don't have a problem with the word "indian" simply because of its common usage.  However, in a formal introduction I would introduce myself by name, nation and family lineage.  

I appreciate you not wishing to sound disrepectful by using the word "Indian" and in fact, there are those who do have valid, strong objections to the word.  I prefer the generic term 'native peoples'.  In truth, speaking for self only, whatever slang is used doesn't matter much, because I am Puyallup, and nothing else.

I think this misunderstanding, though, points out exactly the issues that you were invited here to learn about.   There is concern that Pagan folks are being misled by those who pretend a high degree of knowledge or expertise of traditional native spiritual practices.  It creates a dangerous situation for the pagan as they are being taught at best a lie and at worse physica and spiritual damage.  "Traditional' native spiritual practices are defined by culture; simply meaning that I as a Puyallup follow a spiritual/cultural path different than a Lakota, a Haida, a Crow or any of the over 500 nations.  Spiritual is part of the cultural and cultural is part of the spiritual.  

Words have power..as we've already seen in this discussion.  Please feel free to ask questions, but please hear the words spoken in response without making judgements based on incomplete information.  Thank you.

Storm

[educatedindian]

Ariel,
I'm Indian, or NDN, or American Indian, or Native. Makes no difference to me, or to most other NDNs, who generally prefer to call themselves Indian. What anthros or any other profession or outsiders say is of lesser importance, since there are far more important issues.

Hope you stick around, because we've heard before about exploiters making their way to S Africa, the most notorious probably being Roy "Littlesun" and his phony cure for AIDs and working with Credo Mutwa. We've actually talked before about doing a sepaking tour of S Africa to counter the frauds going down there.

I'd also like to hear from you about how popular Nuage is down there, esp ones posing as Native medicine people, and why that would appeal to S Africans.

[Mo]

i guess if you want to object to the name indian because this is not now nor ever was india then its equally wrong to call us native americans since our respective nations all predate america. when in doubt ask what someone prefers. ok, back to the matter at hand.....

[mysticknt]

I am a member of the Pagan Fed, in fact i am on the council for our district Mid-West and Wales, but i am only one voice and if the other council members want a fraud at one of our conferences, then i can only voice my opinion.
It was pointed out to me by a long time member of the PF that it is a networking group not a police force, as we were discussing certain peoples in the area who were charging large sums for courses and how we could deal with them.
I will still do what i can for the exposer of fakes fraudsters and the like but i think it going to be a long up hill battle

 Graham

[Barnaby_McEwan]

It was pointed out to me by a long time member of the PF that it is a networking group not a police force

I think that's a cop-out. The Pagan Federation engages in more than networking amongst believers: it's made itself the main public face of British neo-paganism and seeks to represent it in dealing with various public bodies. If it has a duty to educate the non-pagan public, then it also has a similar duty to its own members.

It would be handy if PF officials would spend a bit of time networking with us: then a few of their members might avoid getting burned, perhaps literally in a phony sweatlodge. Thanks for your efforts in this regard.

[educatedindian]

Graham, just how far would they take this "we're not police" attitude? Would they seriously stand by and still invite someone who assaulted women under the guise of a ceremony, for example?

Not wanting to seem to be criticizing you, because your own stance is quite different. Just hope you'll pass along to them what we say. I'd like to see pagan groups adopt codes of ethics that specifically bar all abusers, spiritual and otherwise. After all, many of them hold their faiths to be somehow better than, for example, most Christian churches in how they treat people, and I'd see them live up to that.

[mysticknt]

I totally agree with you
but what can you expect from a group that is at this moment taiking about lowering the age of membership, at the moment you have to be 18 or over to join but there are a few who want it lowering to 16 which could drop us into all sorts of trouble as most moots are held in pubs
we get enough bad press as it is

will just have to do my best and pass on the good info you guys are posting

[mysticknt]

there was a meeting of district managers and regional co-ordinaters in Leeds the other week out of a possible 60 plus people  less then 12 turned up and most of them where from the north
first time it has been held outside of London
shows were peoples priorites lay