Author Topic: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith  (Read 14155 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« on: October 16, 2006, 08:51:26 pm »
One very strange yahoo group. Includes mention of another "tribe" and assorted characters

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Judaokeekota/messages

"The way I discovered my Jewish linage is from my mother's side, which
is Cherokee. "Cherokee!" You say? "American Indians aren't
Jewish!" Well, true, not all of them anyway. I cannot prove any of
this by hard cold facts, but by faith, circumstantial evidence, and
archeological artifacts, I'm personally convinced the Cherokee tribe
has Jewish ancestry. A Cherokee tribe in Missouri a few years ago
came out and proclaimed that they are Jews
(www.forthegloryofyahshuahministries.org). The name Cherokee
means "the Chosen / Principle People"; we all know Israel is also
called "the Chosen People". One, who studies the Cherokee Tribe and
religion, will find uncanny similarities to Judaism. For instance,
they go by the lunar calendar as Jews do and all their festivals fall
on the same times and have essentially the meaning, they are just
called by different names. They had a priestly tribe with a high
priest and a lodge in the center of the camp which served as a
Tabernacle of sorts and a sacred chest with sacred articles with in
it just like the Ark of the Covenant. Their name for G-D has the
same consonants as the Hebrew name for G-D; transliterated it would
be YHWH, scholars pronounce it "Yahweh", and the Cherokee called
him "Yowah", Same consonants just different vowels! The Cherokee
called the Great Smokey Mountains "the Shekenah", very similar to the
Hebrew word Shekinah, both referring to the Glory Cloud of G-D.
Their wedding ceremony is as a reenactment of the prophecy of Ezekiel
37. The bride and groom both bring a stick to the wedding and the
priest binds them together making the two sticks one, representing
Judah reuniting and becoming one with Israel. They even get married
wrapped in a garment similar to what the Jews get married under; a
Tallit (prayer shawl). The Cherokee has many more customs and
traditions which parallel the Jewish people and Judaism.

Archeologist even unearthed a stone tablet from a Cherokee burial
mound under a chief's head in Bat's Creek Tennessee which had Palo
(Ancient) Hebrew writing on it!

So how did the Ancient Jews get to the America's? Two ways, 1. King
David and King Solomon had a great and vast navy which sailed the
globe. Some say they either were ordered here or shipwrecked. 2.
Josephus, a Jewish historian, records that a group of Jews held up in
the mountain fortress of Masada during a Roman revolt escaped by sea
and sailed away in this direction.

Ever since I was a teenager I have been drawn to Jews and Jewish
things. Even if I'm not genetically Jewish, I have officially become
Jewish through the Hatafat Dam Brit (ritual circumcision); hence the
reason for my Hebrew and Cherokee name together. My English name
Kristopher Scott Shoemaker means; the follower of Messiah, who bears
the mark, and makes shoes for the path. I named myself "Strange
Lion", because I'm a stranger in a strange land, I appear strange to
everyone around me, and I'm from the tribe of Judah, which symbol is
a Lion. I want to display the characteristics of a lion in my walk
such as royalty, bravery and leadership. But then at the prison I
ran into a Cherokee Medicine man named Gordon "Wide Wing" Smith, who
practices Netzari Judaism, and confirms the Cherokee and a Jewish
connection. He said before Sequoyah came up with the Cherokee
alphabet, the only clan with in the Cherokee Nation that could read
or write was the one which was made up of Priests and Medicine Men.
He said his grandmother had some ancient Cherokee writing which he
said was the same as Paleo-Hebrew script. He gave me the
name "Strong Bow" (U-hu-s-ti Ga-li-tsa-di) because he said when I
speak and preach, I "shoot straight", hard and strong. It is no
coincidence my Cherokee birth sign is flint, which was used in
arrowheads for bows and arrows. My Hebrew name is Yehudah, which was
bestowed upon me by my former Rabbi, makes sense because the best
that I can tell I'm from the tribe of Yehudah (Judah). I f you were
to translate my English name; Kris to Hebrew, it would be Mashiach
(Messiah), and I didn't want to go around being called "Messiah".
The rest of my Hebrew name is; ben Shomeyr; son of Bill, ben Avraham;
son of Abraham, because even though I was born Jewish through my
mother, I still converted to Judaism, and all converts are call, "ben
Avraham", because they have no, or can't trace their Jewish linage.
So being a Cherokee and a Jew, I suppose I am a Judaokee."

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 08:06:18 pm »
That was an interesting read, to say the least.

I do have some major problems with so much being posted about Jewish people and Cherokees. It just starts giving fuel to all those bible thumping baptist, and maybe even a few methodist, Cherokees out there in Oklahoma.

You know anyone can be any religion they so choose. Its not in your blood. And so as the bible thumping Cherokee say Cherokees can't (and I guess all Indians) be 'jews'. Why not, can't they convert. Heck, didn't the ancestors of those bible thumpers convert? Yes, I understand that this clown in the post above mine is going over the same old ground that James Adair did, and adding to it. But hey, and this is just food for thought, can you disprove this theory any more than he can prove it. What happens if he is right? That would be interesting.

Sometimes running around like a horse with blinders on is not smart.

Joseph

frederica

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 09:14:48 pm »
There was a group here but they moved. They were associated with the Chickamauga at one time. But their information is misguided. If they are talking of Hubbard Cave (Bat Cave) it mostly had pre-invasion evidence of mining. Then was used by everyone, a lot of Civil War relics. But most of it was vandelized. But the stone has been pretty well documentated as a fraud. http://www.ramtops.co.uk/bat1.html frederica

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 09:30:59 pm »
Quote
But hey, and this is just food for thought, can you disprove this theory any more than he can prove it. What happens if he is right? That would be interesting.

Got another one for you: the Lakota certainly came from Japan, since the resp words for 'yes' in both languages are near enough the same: iya / iye´.

No, wait a minute - on the other hand, they must be of Germanic origin: the word for father (ahte) and the one in the Lord's prayer in the Wulfila Bible (ata) is also very similar.

These similarities are not that infrequent, and most of them are without any further background. To give some more examples:
Armut (German) = poverty
armut (Turkish) = pear
Sandale (German) = sandal
sandalye (Turkish) = chair
Banane (German) = banana
banane (Turkish) = it's all the same to me (this one even sneaked into everyday German language when Turkish migrants came here, I suppose due to the similarity of words, although not with the Turkish pronounciation (ba-na-NE), but with the German one (ba-NAH-na).
or one from another language:
'arsh (Arabic) = throne
Arsch (German) = ummm, politely said: what you sit on (oookay...., point taken, but the first means an object, and the second a part of the body :o ;D ?  )

If you got a collection of dictionaries, you could find 'same' or similar words in many languages. I don't think finding a few Cherokee words which sound similar to Hebrew words can prove anything much. As far as I know, serious linguistics would rather look for 'basic' words (father, mother etc) to find relations between languages; unfortunately, I cannot contribute anything as to that as both my Hebrew and my Cherokee are non-existant.

I have seen similar theories, like the Mandan were Welsh in origin, or at least welcomed a few adventorous Welshmen centuries ago, as the name of an alleged Welsh prince (which I keep forgetting) and their name 'Mandan' was related. That's an easy one: Mandan is not what they call themselves.
Which is true for another great theory: the Cheyenne, I once read, were the remnants of some Roman Legion (I forgot their number) who migrated West in fear of being reprimanded by Caesar, as 'Cheyenne' and the legion's no. sounded faintly related. Cf. above.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2006, 01:37:39 pm »
Joseph, I know what you mean more than you think. My niece is Jewish, just like her father and my sister, who converted when they married. No one is seeking out and searching for these groups, we just keep stumbling over them. I posted that gorup here because they mentioned a ministry and would be tribe out there recruiting people with their pitch.

I teach my classes about diffusionism, the theories that NDNs or NDN culture and achievements came from somewhere else. These theories started because Europeans used to be convinced NDNs were too dumb to build pyramids, be astronomers, be better farmers and doctors than Europeans were at the time, etc. That belief that NDNs are inferior is the biggest part of why people still believe these theories.

And the Book of Genesis just had to be right, but NDNs weren't mentioned. The Americas weren't mentioned. (Which is also why they cling to the Bering Strait Theory.) So of course NDNs had to be lost Israelites, or Welsh, etc. If you look at who most of the diffusionist believers are today, they're mostly the devout religious, sometimes outright fanatics.

I also talk about the opposite, the thinly veiled racist belief that NDNs could only have come here by the BS Theory and no one could have had contact with NDNs before Columbus (later on changed to before the Vikings). Again, so many Euro scientists were convinced NDNs must have always been too dumb to build boats, even though boats have been around in Asia for at least 40,000 years. Building a small boat and hugging the coastline wouldn't have been too hard.

We now know for a fact (though it's rarely taught even in universities) that some groups were here before Leif Erickson. There's Maori DNA found in at least five NDN tribes, from Ecuador to British Columbia. Huhanna Hickey told us back in the old Yahoo NAFPS group about Maori oral traditions that they travelled to and married into NDNs. The Nuu Chuu Nalth (sp?) also have their oral traditions about that.

Plus Afro Phoenicians probably got here before Erickson. There were trade goods from Africa that Columbus's sailors found. Other early Spanish accounts describe Black tribes in what are today Haiti, Panama, and near Brownsville TX.

But Israelites in the Americas? I don't know of any credible evidence, and I looked around quite a bit doing research for my classes. All they've got is coincidences in words or rituals. I've talked to and read accounts from a lot of Native vets, and many of them saw similarities in rituals they saw in Vietnam and Korea too.

Again, if someone knows of an oral tradition that says different, I sure want to know about it.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2006, 02:10:50 pm »
Here's what I found on the Glory of Yahshuah Ministries. Their founder, Michael Weiss, associates with a guy named Michael Rood who has a pretty dubious history.

http://www.seekgod.ca/revrood.htm
If one asks Michael Rood's staff about his religious background, one might be told similar to what Linda Miller, Michaels' Executive Secretary stated:
"Michael was raised Baptist, taught in John Hagee's church at a later point...."
Except, Michael said in his tapes, that he went business to business in Two Harbor's, pushing what is Ron Wyatt's videos on so-called archeological discoveries...
It would be impossible for Michael to have been a Baptist minister in Duluth. He supposedly moved from San Antonio, Texas in 1995, to Two Harbors Minnesota and there are no congregations in Duluth that had him as their pastor. However, information reveals addresses for Michael in Gastonia and Charlotte, North Carolina, from 1995 to 2003, although he was from San Antonio prior to 1995. There are actually no addresses listed for him in Minnesota, although that is the address for his website correspondence and he was staying in Two Harbors on and off in 1995, until about 1998. Prior to 1985, he was in Virginia....
Various individuals relate Mr. Rood's very defensive posturing, anger and blustering and refusing to give his background information when asked. Omitting The Way International involvement is clearly an attempt to hide his cult background and leanings.  Others recount that when Michael has actually given a 'resume' to pastors, and particularly one church board, they found all his references were bogus and noticed that his listed 'college' was that of The Way International....
As far as his "Rev." title, it would be impossible for Michael to have become a Reverend in anything but The Way International, because he joined the cult at the age of 20 or 21. That is where he got his "Bible scholarship." Based on various information, The Way International was his religious affiliation for a minimum of 22 years and most of his adult life.
In fact, depending on the speaking engagement, he's promoted as "Reverend", "Former Baptist Minister" or as a "Rabbi", "Rabbi Michael Rood" or "Messianic rabbi (teacher) Michael Rood", "Messianic Kairite Rabbi", "Messianic Jewish Rabbi, " and is even referred to as “honorary mohel???--all depending on the audience to be indoctrinated....
The contact, Rabbi Jeff Weiss, speaks with Michael on various platforms, and has no congregation of his own. His ministry called, For the Glory of Yahshuah Ministries has the address, http://www.forthegoym.net"

That site is now down.
Also seems to be some ties to Kabbala and Jews for Jesus.
http://www.seekgod.ca/mainstreaming.htm
"Glory of Yahshua promoted by Restoration Foundation shows the link Glory of Yahshuah to be > http://www.onetruth15.com, which is also found listed under the Sacred Name movement.  
"Unlocking the Door to the Temple of Truth  A 2-Page Site advertising a Book. Makes no mention of the Father's Name, but calls the Son 'Yahshuah'.
www.onetruth15.com"
The onetruth15.com website is no longer available but Jeff Weiss uses the onetruth15 as his email. However, "UNLOCKING  THE DOOR TO THE TEMPLE OF TRUTH" was a book written by Weiss in 1998, and is sold for $15 from his current website, forthegoym, which is merely one of his websites. 9 He is also the author of "The Truth of Reformation." Another of his websites is For the Glory of Yahshua Ministries.
Glory of Yahshuah Ministries
PO Box 22096
Hilton Head Island, SC 29925
Tele: (843) 342-2777
Email:   onetruth15@aol.com.
Website: http://www.forthegloryofyahshuahministries.org/
Leader: Rabbi Jeffrey L. Weiss  
Glory of Yahshua Ministries, recommended by the Restoration Foundation is the ministry of Jeff Weiss, part of Two House Theology, promoter and friend of Michael Rood, and speaker at Marshall Koniuchowsky's Two House events."

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 01:16:28 pm »
Thanks Al.

For the most part I find this Cherokee-Jewish connection humorous. Its the response from christian Cherokees that bothers me.

I know and have read many books and papers disproving the bering land bridge but I'll tell everyone this, it is the oral history that has been passed down that truly lets me know this is hogwash (bering land bridge that is).

You know they say us Cherokee migrated south from the Iroquois. But we are taught they migrated north after leaving us. And there are many archeological digs that have recently been done to prove this.

Also, these absurd attempts to connect Jewish and Cherokee are to me just as absurd as the attempts to say Christ was here with the Indians frist, and all the many other theories that I feel christianized Indains use to explain and excuse their conversions to an alien religion.

I apologize for getting off the topic.

Joseph

Offline Mo

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 03:51:01 pm »
Quote

You know they say us Cherokee migrated south from the Iroquois. But we are taught they migrated north after leaving us. And there are many archeological digs that have recently been done to prove this.

Joseph

our own haudenasaunee (iroquois) stories tell us we come from the south as well...and that some day we will return there.

frederica

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 04:57:48 pm »
Joseph, I believe your are right.  Since these ideas are post-contact, it seems they wish to rely more on influence than common thought. frederica  ;)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 02:06:26 pm »
Stumbled on this article. DNA tests show no relation between NDNs Jews. And I had no idea the Mormons had that many NDN converts. I knew there wer some among the Dineh, but that's it.

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype625.htm
"From the LA Times:

COLUMN ONE

Bedrock of a Faith Is Jolted

DNA tests contradict Mormon scripture. The church says the studies are being twisted to attack its beliefs.

By William Lobdell
Times Staff Writer

February 16, 2006

From the time he was a child in Peru, the Mormon Church instilled in Jose A. Loayza the conviction that he and millions of other Native Americans were descended from a lost tribe of Israel that reached the New World more than 2,000 years ago.

"We were taught all the blessings of that Hebrew lineage belonged to us and that we were special people," said Loayza, now a Salt Lake City attorney. "It not only made me feel special, but it gave me a sense of transcendental identity, an identity with God."

....Critics want the church to admit its mistake and apologize to millions of Native Americans it converted. Church leaders have shown no inclination to do so. Indeed, they have dismissed as heresy any suggestion that Native American genetics undermine the Mormon creed....

The book's narrative focuses on a tribe of Jews who sailed from Jerusalem to the New World in 600 BC and split into two main warring factions.

The God-fearing Nephites were "pure" (the word was officially changed from "white" in 1981) and "delightsome." The idol-worshiping Lamanites received the "curse of blackness," turning their skin dark.

According to the Book of Mormon, by 385 AD the dark-skinned Lamanites had wiped out other Hebrews. The Mormon church called the victors "the principal ancestors of the American Indians." If the Lamanites returned to the church, their skin could once again become white.

Over the years, church prophets — believed by Mormons to receive revelations from God — and missionaries have used the supposed ancestral link between the ancient Hebrews and Native Americans and later Polynesians as a prime conversion tool in Central and South America and the South Pacific.

"As I look into your faces, I think of Father Lehi [patriarch of the Lamanites], whose sons and daughters you are," church president and prophet Gordon B. Hinckley said in 1997 during a Mormon conference in Lima, Peru. "I think he must be shedding tears today, tears of love and gratitude.... This is but the beginning of the work in Peru."

In recent decades, Mormonism has flourished in those regions, which now have nearly 4 million members — about a third of Mormon membership worldwide, according to church figures.

"That was the big sell," said Damon Kali, an attorney who practices law in Sunnyvale, Calif., and is descended from Pacific Islanders. "And quite frankly, that was the big sell for me. I was a Lamanite. I was told the day of the Lamanite will come."

A few months into his two-year mission in Peru, Kali stopped trying to convert the locals. Scientific articles about ancient migration patterns had made him doubt that he or anyone else was a Lamanite.

"Once you do research and start getting other viewpoints, you're toast," said Kali, who said he was excommunicated in 1996 over issues unrelated to the Lamanite issue. "I could not do missionary work anymore."

Critics of the Book of Mormon have long cited anachronisms in its narrative to argue that it is not the work of God. For instance, the Mormon scriptures contain references to a seven-day week, domesticated horses, cows and sheep, silk, chariots and steel. None had been introduced in the Americas at the time of Christ.

In the 1990s, DNA studies gave Mormon detractors further ammunition and new allies such as Simon G. Southerton, a molecular biologist and former bishop in the church.

Southerton, a senior research scientist with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Australia, said genetic research allowed him to test his religious views against his scientific training.

Genetic testing of Jews throughout the world had already shown that they shared common strains of DNA from the Middle East. Southerton examined studies of DNA lineages among Polynesians and indigenous peoples in North, Central and South America. One mapped maternal DNA lines from 7,300 Native Americans from 175 tribes.

Southerton found no trace of Middle Eastern DNA in the genetic strands of today's American Indians and Pacific Islanders...."

frederica

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2006, 04:06:33 am »
I think Southerton, Simon, wrote "Losing a Lost Tribe-Native Americans, DNA and the Mormon Church".  He was a Bishop in the Mormon Church, and after he wrote this they excommunicated him. Read some passages from the book, haven't read the book. frederica

Offline Marlou

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Re: Judaokeekota and Gordon White Wing Smith
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2006, 08:44:03 pm »
Their name for G-D has the
same consonants as the Hebrew name for G-D; transliterated it would
be YHWH, scholars pronounce it "Yahweh"

From what I know YHWH is not pronounced at all by the Jews.
Marlene