Author Topic: The World We Used to Live in: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine Men  (Read 6993 times)

Offline A.H.

  • Posts: 72
Ok, this book by Vine Deloria Jr. should definitely not fall in the hands of new-agers.
 
The non-ordinary accounts given serious attention by the author would make even Castaneda blush...

Some of his conclusions and opinions sort of call for something I could describe as reconstructing or renewing the Native American spirituality. He observes that many rituals and how even native people percieve them have become powerless - a mere "walk-through" similar to "mainstream" religion's ceremonies. 

Great book though.




Offline Kevin

  • Posts: 182
I think power simply goes dormant if not used, it doesn't mean it is gone forever or that it somehow ends/stops - that notion is linear and Western. I believe too that many powers are genetically and environmentally specific and have believed for a long time that try as they may, non-Indians don't have and can't  ever develop most of Indian medicine powers. That's a real blow to the ego and self image of many disenfranchised from Christianity and materialism.

Offline A.H.

  • Posts: 72
Mhm, yes, but I guess (very unsubstantiated personal opinion) it is not a question of some "power" that exists as some objective entity waiting to be talked to... As I understand, it is more an ability of certain people to connect to "something" we usually describe with slippery meaning word "intuition".  Those "powers" described are culture specific and you are right - if someone wants to imitate them or experience exactly that, it is impossible and even meaningless - especially if you are not from that culture.
But it is interesting to hear the opinion of a very esteemed scholar on this subject that also translates and explains some phenomena in a more universal langauge.

He doesn't give recepies - "do that to achieve that"... But you could get more concrete after reading this book, you may even want to try to fast and spend some days alone in the nature of your land and concentrate on certain eternal questions and expect nothing. Why not? You can know that those cultures used this deep concentration, fasting and isolation for connecting to this "something". The basic method or concept is universal - if you don't expect to immitate the more culture specific aspects of their ways (like concrete songs, prayers, dresses, ritual behaviour) and visions - this concept of undertaking can be applyed by anyone interested.
In the "worst" scenario you loose some weight and breathe some fresh air and concquer the fear of being alone in the nature (esp. at night)... If you expect to gain some super-powers or become an "Indian shaman" then you are lost even before you start, I guess.

Equivalent persons in "western culture", although I wouldn't exclude Vine Deloria Jr. from that cultural sphere either - he was priviliged to walk on both sides -  would be people like David Bohm, Francis Crick, the long list of different philosophers that were/are concerned with the question of consciousness and other "metaphysical problems", etc. 

But I think you're wrong that persons outside the native cultures don't have access to this undefined and unresearched yet territory. There are many anecdotal accounts that "proove" otherwise.
I even personally know a certain ("white") woman from the Balkan region, where many "superstitions" still live, that can find lost objects with her intuition and has quite strong intuitive insight into near future events or possible health problems when concentrated on a person or a specific problem.
She prooves it all the time (and I know what "cold reading" is..), but I still have a very ambigous opinion on her. Everything shows that she really has some "gift", but I still have this doubt that she maybe "guesses well" or is just very good at cold reading the persons... I respect her, since she is a very good and honest person and I know her personally, but nothing "reasonable" can be said about that ability of hers.
You can only report it and leave it open for different and oposing interpretations. But even if it is open it shows that also non-native cultures have this access to "something".

(that "reporting thing" is actually what Deloria did - report the cases he thought were valid to some extent and gave some practical and philosophical opinions and advices to "his people" at least)

Until it is more accurately pinned down I am not willing to give it names and attach too personally to any given hypothetical answer - stemming either from Western philosophy or Zen Buddhism or Native American ways, but studying various ideas gives you at least a little better blurry picture what might it all be about.

I have a hard time believing many of less-philosophical and more concrete "mystical" accounts, but I am also willing to acknowledge that the Universe has probably the laws that work outside our linear causal explanation of the world.
But also an opinion that there are some "powers" that some nations can obtain and others don't is a very hypothetical one and not very helpful in a pursuit of truth - it can even hinder you to explore those regions of the mind if you think you have no mental or "spiritual" access to anything besides the causal, materialistic description of the Universe.

It is arrogant for us to believe that we know enough to pass the final and firm judgements what is real and what is not.  This book is good to read also because of such realization...

 

Offline Kevin

  • Posts: 182
A.H. - that woman from the Balkans wouldn't much be able to do her thing here in this land - most  people here would use GPS or file an insurance claim and most Indians I don't think would give her a second look - and I'm not making this an attack or an affront. Maybe if she got away from her environment, the earth and rocks and plants and graves and animals of her land she couldn't find things, I don't know. There is a whole lot we don't understand about interaction with the environment and its imprinting on people and their DNA  and the power of oral tradition and ceremony that reinforces it. Power is power only when applied and  nuagers are spinning their wheels.