Author Topic: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"  (Read 14623 times)

Offline JeelyPiece

  • Posts: 22
So this is a guy who's been getting some press in the UK lately, after receiving official recognition and permission to perform religious services from the Northern Irish government. Just like here in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland, he can officiate at weddings and stuff. On the face of it, that's great! A step in the right direction for religious freedoms and all that. But then you look at the claims he's making.

First of all, he's a "Celtic Shaman" who claims he's now able to perform ceremonies for followers of the pre-Christian Irish religion. His credentials, however, seem to rely on the fact that he's been reincarnated as a "shaman and a seer" many times over, going back to the Paleolthic! Naturally, at least two of those incarnations were as Native American Shamans:

Quote
Having lived many past lives as a Shaman and Seer. Patrick (Nighthunter) has many lifetimes of skills to draw upon.
Two of these past lives were in the last 400 years as a Native American Shaman.
With memories of Shamanism all the way back to Palaeolitthic times spanning thousands of years.
Patrick has always been a healer.
Holding memories of these lives, his skills are carried forward from the old ways.
Patrick's skills are from his past memories, the spirit world and his power animals, which has worked with him through all these lives, he still works the same way today as if nothing has changed.

Perhaps that's why he thinks it's OK to wear that awful fake "Native poncho" in the article?

As usual there's nothing actually "Celtic" or "Irish" to any of the services he's offering. Or selling (like the dreamcatchers). Instead, it's all a mix of bits and pieces ripped off from other cultures. The Irish - or Gaels across the water, like myself - don't have (and never have had) shamans or power animals and we don't have a history of using what seems to be using aromatherapy oils or holistic therapies for healing. Etc. This guy is just another New Ager who's trying to dress up the services he's selling in "prettier" clothing.

Ireland has a massive and rich history of its own pre-Christian beliefs, some of which survive today. But he ignores that and makes ignorant claims about St Patrick "doing away" with the pagans (which he didn't - he wasn't the first Christian missionary, he wasn't the last, and pagans were still around a good 500 years or so after him) and peddles services that have nothing to do with the place he lives in. I'm all for religious freedom and so on, but not when those freedoms are based on fraudulent claims, presenting what he's doing as authentically "Celtic" (or really, authentically anything except New Age appropriations) when it's nothing of the sort. I also see no reason for anyone to feel the need to claim Native American past incarnations, as if that somehow legitimises something that their own culture and history can't. I think that's pretty offensive to both cultures (or groups of cultures in this case, maybe).


Offline debbieredbear

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 04:24:56 pm »
I was wondering about this guy. I saw this on Facebook yesterday and something about his pic looked "off". Thanks for pointing out all the things that were red flags to me. ;)

Autumn

  • Guest
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 04:38:29 pm »
When someone claims they were NDN in a past life or lives, there is no way to dispute them!

There is no ancestry.com for past lives.   ;D ;D

Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3290
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2015, 04:45:37 pm »
This guy is one big red flag. He's a classic example of the nuage pretendian who thinks if he claims it's "Celtic" no one will notice he's a white man playing Indian and selling ceremony. Most people are as ignorant about what is and isn't old Irish as they are about Native ways. So the general public is generally unequipped to understand the violence he's doing to multiple cultures.

He looks just like all the other "Celtic Shaman" frauds - selling Harner's made up "shamanism" wrapped up in a wolf poncho, banging on a fake plains-style drum. That he's doing this in Ireland only makes it worse.

The "I was an Indian in my past lives, so now I can lead pretendian ceremonies because really, I know and remember aaaall the oooold ways. Actually, I know them better than living Natives, because I remember the stuff they've lost" is an old con on the nuage and neopagan circuit. It results in waves of non-Natives selling all sorts of fake ceremonies. And when they find an audience who is gullible enough to believe this sales pitch, those are the people gullible enough to support frauds like this, who spawn more frauds, who then, to some, become the public facade of communities they've never been part of.

Smart people generally look at frauds like this and laugh. But whether as a tongue in cheek human interest story, or as serious coverage, he's getting press and that's disturbing. When he's shown up to comment on Irish forums, he usually gets laughed at and dismissed. But there are plenty of neoplaygans who support this stuff. They either don't understand well enough to see how harmful it is, or they just don't care. 

Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3290
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2015, 04:47:49 pm »
Here he is wearing his red flag.

Epiphany

  • Guest
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2015, 05:26:40 pm »
His claims of being persecuted follow a common template of Nuage pretendians.

Quote
Patrick says the fear of attack is well-founded as he was assaulted at a small outlet he opened in the Park Centre last September.

Quote
Patrick’s commitment to the spirital life has put him in harm’s way more than once. Last year he was in Ukraine filming for a psychic television programme when he was caught up in the fighting there. He had been attending a gathering of 150 psychics from around the world organised by Ukranian TV.

http://belfastmediagroup.com/nis-first-pagan-priest-speaks-of-his-hopes-for-pre-christian-religion/

My guess is that he partially invents these persecution stories so he can have some street cred. "See, I'm legit because I'm persecuted." By doing so he drowns out the voices of actual people and groups who are truly targeted and oppressed.

Quote
The theft of a Celtic sea god sculpture from a mountainside in Northern Ireland must be labeled as a religious hate crime, a local pagan priest believes. The statue, made by a ‘Game of Thrones’ set creator, prompted a media stir after it was vandalized.

The six-foot statue of Manannán Mac Lir, a sea deity in Irish mythology, was stolen from Binevenagh Mountain near Limavady in County Derry in January and replaced with a crucifix bearing the words “you shall have no other gods before me.

Now, pagan priest Patrick Carberry, the founder and sovereign of the Order of the Golden River, which is based out of Belfast, says the incident should be treated as a religious hate crime.

“If a pagan stole a statue from a Christian church and left a pagan one in its place it would make world news,” Carberry told the Londonderry Sentinel.

http://belfastmediagroup.com/nis-first-pagan-priest-speaks-of-his-hopes-for-pre-christian-religion/

So he is positioning himself as a spokesperson and an authority. But he's bogus. Ideally he would position himself more accurately as a New Age practioner.

Quote
However, Shamanism is not just about living in natural surroundings.  It also involves Shamanic Healing and I have been practicing healing techniques for many years.  When my Daughter was 11 years old she developed a muscular condition which meant she ended up in a wheelchair until she was 21.  The Doctor’s said she would never walk again without pain but we were determined to do what we could to change the outcome so I became her full-time carer.  I took her to Hydrotherapy and worked together with her legs knowing in our heart that she would recover.  Thankfully, she is walking and her condition is in remission and there does not appear to be any signs of it returning.  I believe this was due to my ability to use my innate Shamanic skills to bring about healing.  My Spirit Guide and my Power Animal have informed me that I have been a Shaman in many past lives.  In fact, on my first Shamanic journey my Power Animal told me it was about time that I recognized my abilities.

http://silent-oak.com/about.php

Quote
When in Ukraine Patrick predicted events in graphic detail. Through a vision he saw a burning building, people dead, others running around wearing orange helmets and lots of police. This information was described in detail to a member of the television company STB. Thinking this was a past event Patrick asked if this had happened in Ukraine, he was told no.

5 weeks later the exact images described that day appeared on Television around the world in  Maiden Squire, Kiev, Ukraine.
This was confirmed by that member of staff.

http://silent-oak.com/


Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3290
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2015, 06:02:06 pm »
The theft of the Manannán statue from a hillside in the North of Ireland brought together Irish people, and Irish descendants the world over, to advocate for the return and replacement of this piece of art. Historical and mythological figures like that don't belong to any one religion, but are cherished by most Irish people as a whole. But then this guy showed up and exploited the situation. He screamed about the evil Christians... when most of the people searching for the statue and supporting the return of it... consider themselves Christian. He joined with the non-Irish neopagans who were asserting ownership of the statue, denying the sovereignty of the Irish people. In the North of all places! It was unseemly and most Irish people were laughing at him as hard as we are here.  People who try to exploit the religious tensions in the North of Ireland for their personal gain are reprehensible. It dishonours the ancestors, and the living veterans of the troubles.

Offline JeelyPiece

  • Posts: 22
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2015, 06:36:53 pm »
I was wondering about this guy. I saw this on Facebook yesterday and something about his pic looked "off". Thanks for pointing out all the things that were red flags to me. ;)

Thanks! You're welcome :)

His claims of being persecuted follow a common template of Nuage pretendians.

[snip]

My guess is that he partially invents these persecution stories so he can have some street cred. "See, I'm legit because I'm persecuted." By doing so he drowns out the voices of actual people and groups who are truly targeted and oppressed.

Agreed. In the article he tried to make out that taking five months to consider his application was because of religious discrimination, too, and he was huffing about the fact that they took legal advice. It's just absurd, I'm sorry. The reason it took that amount of time and the reason they took legal advice is precisely because he's the first person to get approval for this kind of thing, not to mention the fact that there's a process they have to go through with any application like that. It's not a conspiracy, it's just common sense.

Quote
Quote
The theft of a Celtic sea god sculpture from a mountainside in Northern Ireland must be labeled as a religious hate crime, a local pagan priest believes. The statue, made by a ‘Game of Thrones’ set creator, prompted a media stir after it was vandalized.

The six-foot statue of Manannán Mac Lir, a sea deity in Irish mythology, was stolen from Binevenagh Mountain near Limavady in County Derry in January and replaced with a crucifix bearing the words “you shall have no other gods before me.

Now, pagan priest Patrick Carberry, the founder and sovereign of the Order of the Golden River, which is based out of Belfast, says the incident should be treated as a religious hate crime.

“If a pagan stole a statue from a Christian church and left a pagan one in its place it would make world news,” Carberry told the Londonderry Sentinel.

http://belfastmediagroup.com/nis-first-pagan-priest-speaks-of-his-hopes-for-pre-christian-religion/

So he is positioning himself as a spokesperson and an authority. But he's bogus. Ideally he would position himself more accurately as a New Age practioner.


Absolutely. A cynic might point out that he made a big thing about this being a "hate crime" while he was angling to become a licenced priest, too, making it little more than a publicity stunt, any way you look at it. What he's selling is offensive and degrading, but behaviour like this makes it all the more upsetting, I think.

I forgot to add in my original post that on his website he justifies charging money for his services because he was "shunned" when he was offering it for free:

Quote
Patrick offered healing for one year to everyone FREE but no one wanted it. They instead called him names and shunned him, they went to the others to pay for the similar treatments. 

Patrick said this year taught him that people don't want help. They rather spend money, saying if its free its worth nothing.

So that's OK  ::)

Epiphany

  • Guest
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2015, 07:05:20 pm »
A cynic might point out that he made a big thing about this being a "hate crime" while he was angling to become a licenced priest, too, making it little more than a publicity stunt, any way you look at it. What he's selling is offensive and degrading, but behaviour like this makes it all the more upsetting, I think.

I forgot to add in my original post that on his website he justifies charging money for his services because he was "shunned" when he was offering it for free:

Quote
Patrick offered healing for one year to everyone FREE but no one wanted it. They instead called him names and shunned him, they went to the others to pay for the similar treatments. 

Patrick said this year taught him that people don't want help. They rather spend money, saying if its free its worth nothing.

So that's OK  ::)

Sign me up as a cynic. :) I think he is behaving like a huckster, looking for a path to fame and fortune.

That "Poor me, I am forced to charge money because no one will come to me if I give away my miraculous healings for free" bit is so old and obvious. I think it is on page two of the Earn Money as a New Age Fraud book. I remember hearing versions of this back in the mid 80s.

One version: a woman who sold turquoise jewelry in a shop wasn't selling much. She left her shop to an employee for the day and when she returned she found that suddenly the jewelry had been practically flying off the counters, lots of people had bought and wanted more. What happened?
She learned that her employee had misunderstood her instructions and had accidentally marked up the jewelry price quite a bit. Customers then though the jewelry was extra special since it cost so much, so they bought it.
New Age Sales Moral: charge more money and people will want it more.

Goes to show that this is indeed all about marketing, branding, and selling. Spinning a fascinating yarn so that the buyers don't know what they are really buying.

His claims of being persecuted ideally would cause everyone to wisely stay away from him. He definitely is not a safe person to follow.

Epiphany

  • Guest
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 07:16:19 pm »
When someone claims they were NDN in a past life or lives, there is no way to dispute them!

There is no ancestry.com for past lives.   ;D ;D

I was Carberry's mother in a past life. I loved my son but I also knew he would go to ruin, what with his fox cunning ways. I told him that his lies would be his downfall.

I can prove this because these events are recorded in journals I and others wrote in our past lives.  ;)

Offline earthw7

  • Posts: 1415
    • Standing Rock Tourism
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 02:15:02 pm »
Its funny because as Native we don't believe in reincarnation and past lives
I think that comes from Eastern Religions like India and other place but its
not our culture so i just roll my eyes at these people :o
In Spirit

Offline JeelyPiece

  • Posts: 22
Re: Patrick Carberry - "Celtic Shaman" "Reincarnated Native American"
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 08:18:05 am »
Patrick Carberry is now setting up a "church" in Derry.

Quote
Patrick Carberry, Sovereign and Founder of the Order of the Golden River, said: “We are setting up a church in the area whgich [sic] would be a branch of our pagan church.

“Purely because of the the type of the group we don’t worship in a church premises as such - we are involved with being close to nature - although we do have access to a premises if we need it.

“We are starting with a workshop on May 9th. We are setting up in Derry in response to demand. We have been asked by people in Derry that have been coming up to us in Belfast for our workshops if we would consider setting up a branch in Derry.