Francine Payer

[luckycharlie]

I think this woman is a fraud because she claims to be Anishinabe but I, nor my Anishinabe partner, have heard of her. She doesn't state which community she is from, only that her mother and grandmother were "medicine women". She is clearly French, with a thick French accent, and she states that she grew up in the Outaouais area but she claims to be an "Anishinabe Kwe" from the "turtle clan", and that she walks "with the wolf and bear". I've been at some of her "teachings" and she does not seem genuine at all. Her "prayer" consists of token Anishinabe words but is largely spoken in English, red flag number one. When I innocently interjected her teaching with a story of my own that related to what she was saying, she shot me an angry glare. Clearly, she wasn't pleased about someone else speaking during her lecture. This was a red flag because it shows her ego is heavily invested in her image as a spiritual knowledge keeper. There is a lot I could say about her, but I'll try to sum up why she's probably a fraud:
- She offers "healing sessions" for a hefty price which she states on her website. But, wait, there's more....an initial visit fee of $75...and she offers package deals *eye roll*
- She claims to be a "well-respected grandmother"in her community. Hmm, which community is that? No idea. The urban community, I suppose? She likely stays away from any genuine Native people because they can see right through her if they know anything about plastic shamans and new age frauds.
- I can't make heads or tails about what her services entail. She talks about chakras, reiki, aromatouch, essential oils, crystal healing and a number of other non-Native practices.
- She may not even be Anishinabe
- Anyone who uses token Native words without actually being fluent in their language is probably a fraud

Can I attach a link to her website? Is that allowed on this board?

[Epiphany]

Welcome! Yes, you can certainly include link to her website.

[JeelyPiece]

Here's a pdf of the kind of services she offers. She describes herself as:

Metis-algonquin, life coach & spiritual guide, she does conferences and is a certified teacher in personal growth for more than 20 yrs. Water, forest, women’s teachings, traditional ceremonies, wellbeing & healing are her life purpose.

And is offering "chakra harmonization," holistic healing, crystal healing, along with classes on a number of New Age kind of things (crystals, "personal and spiritual healing"), dream catchers ($40) and medicine pouches ("learn to make your own the traditional way" - $40).

This is her website. Here she describes herself as:

The oldest of a family of five I grew up in Outaouais. I am anishanabe kwe born in the Turtle clan and I walk with the wolf and the bear.  My grandmother was the medicine-woman in her community & so is my mother within her own family & beyond...

[snipsnip]

I offer several traditional teachings and hold many ceremonies & traditional healings.  I am a well-respected grand-mother in my community I carry the chanupa ( People's Sacred Pipe), drum carrier, seed keeper, traditional dancer and Moondancer, cultural & environmental activist, spokesperson for the water and the trees and Water Walker. [/url]

She also offers smudging services.

This is her Twitter.

[earthw7]

so she claims to be Anishinabe but uses Lakota words! chanupa 
then mixes up the eastern ways, and what is a moon dancer

[educatedindian]

Not even a close call. If she has ancestry or not, she doesn't teach anything Native, just a few token words or a generic faux-Lakota version.

One of the stranger things is her using the story of her husband's suicide on her website to win sympathy or try to insulate her from criticism. She does go on to admit she's basically a retired accountant whose now a Nuage healer.

She and two others also run a horse ranch that poses as spirchul.
http://www.davalonstables.com/camps.html
$80 "to be with trees." Seriously...

Moved to Frauds.

[educatedindian]

Payer sent this email.

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My name is Francine Payer and someone made false allegation about me.  I hate new age stuff and certainly am not a new age wannabee...
 
How dare someone say that a person is not native because they do not know the language, surely someone that know very little about my people.
 
When our people were subjected to residential school and forbidden by law to speak their language how to you want the children of those survivors to know the language.
 
Here in so call Canada there are hardly anyone speaking the language fluently, it is a sad fact. My growing up language was French.
 
Having my name on a fraud list has caused me my job at the school and many other things, if I would have money I would be soughing you.
 
...Yes, I have a web site and yes, I do healing but I hate shaman and sure not one I never talk about that kind of healing.  I have been an aromatherapist is that a crime to be native and study essential oils.  By the way essential oils are not new age they exist for millions of years.
 
Yes I charge, it is my work, but I never say anything in my site that I charge for anishanabe healing, I charge for aromatherapy...
 
I have been doing woman’s healing and facilitating women’s circle for 17 years and never did I charge a penny, I don’t even put a donation box. I have been facilitating sweat lodge for 25 yrs. and never did I ask for anything in return, of course I would never mention any of this on my web site, my website is a business my native teaching is my life and has nothing to do with my website.
 
Now one last thing, I wouldn’t even know how to give a dirty look to someone, I am too gentle for that.  By the way, I am a Pipe carrier and in my language, we say Poigan but most people know it as chanupa as the Pipe comes from the Lakota people, so it is just respectful to use that word so that everyone understand, so if someone’s wife or husband doesn’t know me it means that I am a fake???…
 
Please remove my name from your list….

[educatedindian]

More from Payer. First from her. Last is my response.

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To reply to your email, pleae know that Line doesn’t know anything about my life, my 1st husband is still alive I have been divorce for 40 yrs, my last husband died in 1991
 
I just saw that you posted what I wrote, you are the same person who approved that person’s claim and put me on the fraud list, you don’t even know me and I know nothing of you, how dare you write these things about my late husband and judging me...
 
People are really judgemental, judging me without knowing me, it is the first time that I read all the other post. I just saw this person Jeely Piece saying that I charge 40$ for dream catcher I dont’ t know where she saw that because I do not make dream catchers

Just for your information I have been teaching in the schools system for more than 10yrs again you do not know Nothing about me

Win sympathy really how dare you

I am not associated with davalon stable, I was invited to play the drum and sing a few songs for the kids during one of their camp... is that a wrong thing to do... really?? I donÙ,t know what kind of publicity they did for that camp but was not involve with that
 
Renove my name from your site

--------
We do not remove information. esp not because the ethically challenged put on a show of being offended.

Much of what you say is very confused. You can't decide if your husband is alive, dead, still married to you, divorced, or by how many years.

Most of what's on the site about you comes from your own websites, your selling dream catchers and running that stable. If the other stable owners are misrepresenting your role, your dispute on that matter should be with them.

Again, any statement you make in your defense we will post, including these emails.

[mamiwiikwe]

This is kind of silly when I read this thread... the woman clearly specify that she divorced her first husband and is a widow from second marriage.. I do not see any confusion in that...  I know many people that are first nation in Canada and do not speak the language that is the effect of residential schools.. I do not know this person but I have read many other post and I find that it is very judgemental when one person wants to put down another person all they have to do is write a post like the first one from luckycharlie... the weirdest thing is that this luckycharlie only wrote a post on this person... I feel that there was a grudge or maybe even jealousy for one person... to register to this site and write one post on one person... don't you think it is kind of fishy.... by the way luckycharlie cannot even be found anymore.  I checked her website and did not see anything wrong with it...
It is important to know that if someone is first nation and not selling the ceremonies I think she is aloud to have a business of her own.  I kind of agree that essential oils are not a New Age thing...  anyway that is my opinion!

I have been a member for 2 years and I am just reading all kinds of posts and I am just wondering how does a person gets to be a fraud and who decides? how does a person go about having a name removed from the fraud list?  I am just wondering ... I guess I will just have to keep on reading and try to figure out what this site is really about.

 
 

[educatedindian]

This is kind of silly when I read this thread... the woman clearly specify that she divorced her first husband and is a widow from second marriage.. I do not see any confusion in that...  I know many people that are first nation in Canada and do not speak the language that is the effect of residential schools.. I do not know this person but I have read many other post and I find that it is very judgemental when one person wants to put down another person all they have to do is write a post like the first one from luckycharlie... the weirdest thing is that this luckycharlie only wrote a post on this person... I feel that there was a grudge or maybe even jealousy for one person... to register to this site and write one post on one person... don't you think it is kind of fishy.... by the way luckycharlie cannot even be found anymore.  I checked her website and did not see anything wrong with it...
It is important to know that if someone is first nation and not selling the ceremonies I think she is aloud to have a business of her own.  I kind of agree that essential oils are not a New Age thing...  anyway that is my opinion!

I have been a member for 2 years and I am just reading all kinds of posts and I am just wondering how does a person gets to be a fraud and who decides? how does a person go about having a name removed from the fraud list?  I am just wondering ... I guess I will just have to keep on reading and try to figure out what this site is really about.

Anyone else think this is Payer again? Same writing style, same exact arguments, convenient knowledge of everything.

Duplicate span post removed. And Payer obviously is not a member anymore.

[Karoniaa]

Yes, she is a fraud who recently got fired from a school teaching false teachings to native students, the parents of these native students approached the principal and questioned why they hired a fraud, then they fired her......this being the second school she pulled the wool over their eyes...........her website is bull crap .....I know because my granddaughter was one of those students.

And if she wants to come on here and challenge this post and me, I welcome it because I am the real deal in my community, Miye

[Diana]

Here's an update on this fraud.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/kitigan-zibi-payer-identity-fraud-1.6232928

Unacceptable': Quebec First Nation frustrated by latest identity fraud allegation
 
Indigenous ancestry of Gatineau, Que., naturopath has come into question
Ben Andrews · CBC News · Posted: Nov 02, 2021 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 11 hours ago

Naturopath and lecturer Francine Payer gives conferences and workshops on Anishinaabe culture in a range of venues, including schools.

Residents of the Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg First Nation near Maniwaki, Que., are frustrated amid questions about the Indigenous ancestry of lecturer and naturopath Francine Payer, who's based in nearby Gatineau.

Payer's Indigenous identity was called into question following a Radio-Canada report published last week. 

"This is completely unacceptable," said Algonquin Elder Claudette Commanda. "It's false information that hurts people, and then it's up to us to limit the damage."

Payer claimed to have Anishinaabe roots, coming from the community of Timiskaming and having ancestors from Kitigan Zibi. She described herself as an Anishinaabe "grandmother" on her website and gave public talks on Anishinaabe culture.

In a 2016 letter, Timiskaming First Nation confirmed Payer is not a registered member.

'I think she is lying'

Claudette Dumont-Smith, the executive director of Quebec Native Women, said cases like Payer's aren't limited to Kitigan Zibi.

"They are taking away the place of real natives to tell their story," Dumont-Smith said in French.

"I come from Kitigan Zibi. I was the nurse there for years, so I know all the names of the families and she can't name the family that she belongs to. I don't trust her story and think she is lying."

Some community members said they are concerned with the sense of fraud and cultural appropriation.

"To me .. it's more of the life and the experiences that they haven't had," said Doug Odjick, Kitigan Zibi band council member.

"They didn't live the life. They didn't live the discrimination. They didn't live the hardships."

Community prone to identity fraud, chief says

Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg Chief Dylan Whiteduck said he's seen at least five cases like Payer's since he was elected in August 2020. He said he believes the community is particularly prone to this type of fraud because it's one of the oldest in the area.

"It's just disrespectful," he said. "It degrades who we are as First Nation people."

Francine Payer did not respond to a request for an interview from Radio-Canada on Sunday.

Payer runs a naturopathic clinic in Gatineau and has given lectures and training on Indigenous people in a range of venues, including schools.

Radio-Canada previously reported that Payer said she doesn't need the recognition of a band council, since she views it as a colonial structure.

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