hi....questioning!!!!

[hevajra]

i am hevajra and i live in whitstable,kent, uk.i do not know anything about shamanism but i am very interested and i feel a certain pull especially towards the dreamwork within shamanism.
the only spiritual path i've followed so far is been the mahamudra path.i received teaching over a period of three years from mingyur dorje rinpoche a very reputable teacher within the tibetan buddhist tradition.
as for the native traditions, i've always abstained from making steps towards contacting various groups or individuals who claim to be the real thing or authentic.
 your site is a very ?  good resource for judging who's who in the world of shamanism but unfortunatelly is more about groups in u.s.a......but i still have dificulty in judging who is authentic.that's why i would apreciate any info.regarding any groups or individuals in uk who are authentic.because on the net there are countless groups who advertise their services as having real conections with the true traditions.which , personally i cannot believe, because if you really are a true medicine woman or man ? with a superior realization of reality ,you wouldn't feel the need to publicise on the net who you are, ? and naturally you would help all around you in a spontaneous way whithout to feel the need to change anything or to actively do things to prove or to make yourself known...there is no need for that...

I WONDER IF THERE ARE ANY REAL MEDICINE MEN OR WOMEN...A REALLY DO!!!

hevajra.

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Hi there, glad you found us. The short answer is no. If a purportedly Indian person is offering to teach 'shamanism' in the UK, or anywhere for that matter, don't just walk away, run away. They will rip you off or otherwise abuse you, no matter how 'spiritual' they seem. Indian spiritual leaders (not sure if that's a good term) serve their communities: they do not cross the Atlantic to make money off gullible Europeans. Tell your friends, before one of them is molested or dies in a fake sweatlodge.

Some Indian people do come to the UK to teach, but not the noble-savage fantasy stuff. Our own Al Carroll is one (he's a historian). In fact Al spoke in Whitstable this time last year, at the arts centre, thanks to our friend Elija van den Berg. Another is Scott Frazier. If you look at that page you won't see anything there about totems, power animals, vision quests, how to build a sweatlodge, etc.

[hevajra]

thanks ....is sad though....
unfortunatelly i moved to this area only this year and so i've missed the lectures given by al...

anyway ...as you probably know in uk there are noumerous groups who claim to be the real thing..

in my heart i kinda gave up the search for the authentic and i'm continuing my practice and i hope that at some point ,sometime , the practices i've done will  give me enough understanding of the nature of mind to be able to help others and to be the one wich i was looking for,  for  so many years..this sounds a bit dualistic but i cannot say that i am already there since i'm not.

one more thing...lots of the resources featured on your web ar mainly for scholarly purposes and also for placing various traditions in various contexts and for debating who's who(at least this is my understanding) but not so many for practical purposes.but i assume that for such thing you need to see somebody face to face and we already agreed that there are virtually no authentic medicine men or women around or there are very few and cannot be known.

sad...very sad

hevajra...
 

[debbieredbear]

 hevajra,

You asked:

I WONDER IF THERE ARE ANY REAL MEDICINE MEN OR WOMEN...A REALLY DO!!!

Yes, there are *real* medicine men and women. But they are in their tribal communiyies, for the most part, and you will usually not hear of them. If they should go to Europe, it would be on a vacation, like the rest of us. And yes, some go on vacations. They mostly work regulary jobs and help in their communities. Unlike the fakes, they don't have a price list for services.

[Le_Weaponnier]

in my heart i kinda gave up the search for the authentic and i'm continuing my practice and i hope that at some point ,sometime , the practices i've done will ? give me enough understanding of the nature of mind to be able to help others and to be the one wich i was looking for, ? for ? so many years..this sounds a bit dualistic but i cannot say that i am already there since i'm not.

In all likelyhood the practices you have done, unless they came from a reliable, and authentic source (In other words, not from the Internet, not from a workshop or New Age book, nor a New Age ceremony nor from someone who charges for teachings) then they are probably made up and almost totally without merit or basis.
I tried to explain to a friend of mine the other day that what she has been "taught" is almost completely made up by her "teacher" and has no spiritual value. Other than teaching her to part with money she has learned nothing.
That's what frustrates me sometimes, these Wannabe's refuse to understand that they ae not paying for real Native traditions and sprituality, they are paying for fakes and frauds, and getting nothing in return. Sure some ceremonies they teach may be based on a real ceremony, but that's like saying a movie is based on a book. It doesn't come close in fact.

[snorks]

Hi am also a POWP - plain ordinary white person.

You can develop your own sense of the sacred without having to taught by a 'shaman'.  It is harder of course but is more meaningful.  

Part of the allure of Native spirituality is the closeness to nature and the 'real' world.  However, you can follow the seasons and other things - there are excellent materials and people who simply teach nature or eco-spirituality.  School of the Seasons (on-line) has low cost and free materials for people to live in rhythm with the seasons.  Waverly Fritz offers a grounding in Western nature religion and sacredness at her school of the seasons.  It is mostly free.

That is not to advertise her school but I offer her as an example of people finding their own sense of the sacred without intruding on Native spirituality.  Also not setting themselves as a 'special teacher' either.

[hevajra]

to [highlight]le weaponnier[/highlight]


yes ..i do agree with you .now i have a better understanding of what a medicine man really is..from what i've ? read here on the NAFPS web ? they usually serve their communities and try to preserve their traditions without feeling the need to write books ,build centres ,universities,travel the world to let everybody know who they are..
as for the teaching i have received it came from ? a very reputable teacher within the tibetan tradition ,who is a lama and lived all his life in a monastery doing many years of retreat.
i received these teaching face to face and not having to pay a penny ,but of course whenever i had the chance i donnated as much as i could afford.these teachings happened over a period of three years with lots of homework involved...

hevajra...