Sean Crabb Questions

[Sean Crabb]

Hi there,

I have recently joined this list and have been reading some of the posts and threads.

A few questions arise.

 I am not against the idea of there being a kind of watch dog or that people relate information that can help the average person have discernment with regard to the practice of "Shamanism" it would seem that you also run the risk of being mistaken in some cases.

There are threads here that I would agree with. I have studied Shamanism for years and was never very convinced by Carlos Castenada, for example, and I am very aware that these things have become so popularised now that all sorts of people get involved not all with good motives. I have seen the new age scene since I was young and there are loads of charlatans out there so its no surprise that there are people that want to expose that.

 In shamanic circles there are all sorts of people and given that there are always people that may go to ceremony or listen to or participate in numerous types of groups then it is logical that some might have misgivings that are not necessarily objective but rather because they took a personal dislike to someone. As someone said here no-one is perfect and as much as any practioner of shamanic techniques may not be perfect so it is also the case that the partcipants may have far from perfect motives. There are badly intentioned people everywhere. There are also people that project their own faults onto others, behave with intolerance or with arrogance and then accuse the next person of the same things. 

You say on this forum that everyone is responsible for what they write and say and you can't take responsibility in this respect which is a normal kind of disclaimer. I see that there are people that appear on threads here that make claims and accusations without any supporting evidence and that more experienced members of the list answer as if taking such statements to be true - doesn't seem that logical to me as you can't know what motives people have and why they say the things they do. Is it not possible that they that claim to be victims can also be wrong. Do you question this side of the story? I am interested in your reply because you seem to have some kind of search for justice here and you are dealing with highly controversial subject matter.

You say you are happy to get enemies and that if people defend or squeal then its a sign of guilt which sends a message in advance that no-one should bother to defend themselves for it will be a sign of guilt. Does it therefore follow that someone that doesn't squeal may not be guilty as charged? Are you prepared to admit that there maybe cases in which you are mistaken? Or are you always right?

I make these questions because I am tempted to comment on some of the threads as I have found a number of the cases mentioned to be familiar to me in one way or another. In some cases I feel there are things I know that would back up what you say here and in others the opposite but I reserve my opinion for now because I want to be sure that this is an objective forum.

Also for my part I happen to believe (don't know if you agree) that all we say and do ultimately comes back to us so I think any criticism must be objective and well considered. At least that is my understanding.

Personally I would make no secret that I am not of Indigenous blood, I am of Irish descent and maybe I am not qualified in that respect to comment on Indigenous peoples and their practice but I have a high respect for the things I have learnt from contact I have had with such people in the area of Shamanism. I am aware that the word Shaman is not Native American and comes from Siberia, I am also aware that this word was brought into use by Western Anthropologists. The practice of "Medicine people" may vary from nation to nation and  tribe to tribe - a degree of cultural cross in this day and age is inevitable but do you believe that white people should not participate at all in Native American medicine? Is participation itself a cultural appropriation? I understand that many people of the First Nations must be pretty pissed off by the fact that whites have double crossed and robbed so much from them even nowadays in the spiritual aspect - I have read the stories of Wounded Knee and more, and I get that the First Nations have taken a lot of shit but do you think its possible us whites could learn your medicine ways? Is there hope for us? We lost our culture, we used to have medicine men, shamans if you want to use that word but not any more. One member of a  Druid Order told me that if anyone tells you they are from a Druidic line they are telling lies, there is no lineage. So what do we do? Are we screwed or what?

I apologise if some of these questions have been previously addressed elsewhere, I am new here, its a big site and I haven't read anything so excuse me if I show and ignorance of general concepts.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Best Wishes.

Sean

[educatedindian]

The thread you had it in was not related to these questions. It was for listing frauds who've attacked us.

Pretty much everything you ask has been answered elsewhere, usually many times. Use the search function.

Start with the obvious one: Zero to do with race, everything to do with being part of a Native community. We never said anything about "race" which is an alien concept to Native peoples, imported from Europe. But for people from cultures steeped in racism, it's little surprise they see critiques of something as inherently racist as the spiritual colonialism that is Nuage as "racist". Largely not having experienced racism, they easily make that logical fallacy. It's like attacking rape crisis centers as rapist.

[BrandemeerHG]

Hello

Is there hope for us?

Definitely yes! Why? Because today we have science like anthropology, archaeology and ancient texts which can help us to understand our past.

But never forget that describing people as “white” is a result of colonial politics and racist worldview, before that there where no ideas of a racial unity in Europe, for example the southern Europeans called the northern tribes Barbarians, and saw themselves superior to them in roman era.
So speaking about people as white is false in a historical sense, even if their descendants are seen as white today and definitely got white privilege.

There is no ancient white religion, or common shared ancient white past, because there had been many different tribes and migration events in Europe in the past since 12.000 Years.

We lost our culture, we used to have medicine men, shamans if you want to use that word but not any more. “

So at first I would say that we have a very effective kind of medicine, modern pharmacology and everything you can find in a modern hospital. Cultural there have been other medicines, some are efficient similar to today's medicine, but most are not, some are even dangerous and have been used, because there had been no alternative in ancient times.

I would say the connection to specific plants today is not based on the need for their healing abilities, but about their traditional meaning and place in nature. Who knows if we will need them again in the future? Many animals and also humans have evolved together with this plants and if they will disappear, some animals will disappear, other plants, and perhaps humans will also disappear one day.

I don't know about the situation in the US but here in Europe you can buy a lot of books about herbs and plants for dietary and medical use, in this books you will find also information about what parts of a specific plant are for food, medicine or even toxic, and in which time of the year you should harvest them.
It is important not to mistake a plant for another, because some plants, even from the same family can be toxic and look like medicine or edible plants. For example, in the family of Apiaceae this is often true.

I don't see that there is no European herbal knowledge and why someone have to steal from Native Americans.

One member of a Druid Order told me that if anyone tells you they are from a Druidic line they are telling lies, there is no lineage. So what do we do? Are we screwed or what? “

So that's what I already know and have also been told by modern history books. Defend the Sacred, a member of this Forum said that he knows people who are from an ancient lineage, perhaps he can tell you more.

[Defend the Sacred]

One member of a Druid Order told me that if anyone tells you they are from a Druidic line they are telling lies, there is no lineage. So what do we do? Are we screwed or what? “

So that's what I already know and have also been told by modern history books. Defend the Sacred, a member of this Forum said that he knows people who are from an ancient lineage, perhaps he can tell you more.

That's not what I said. You asked if there are any people who can trace their genealogy back to pre-Christian times, and I said yes. That has nothing to do with druids.

[Defend the Sacred]

The contemporary neo-druid orders are all revivalists at best, or, more often, fantasists. They don't meet the old standards for the title, and many are not even rooted in the Celtic cultures at all. The druids (which is an anglicisation of the the words) were a professional class among the ancient Celts. It wasn't a "race" or an inherited status.

If you are interested in the living Celtic traditions you will need to learn the language, music and culture of the Celtic Nation in question. You won't find them through the neo-drood / neoplaygan groups or newagers.

[Sparks]

… do you think its [it's] possible us whites could learn your medicine ways? Is there hope for us? We lost our culture, we used to have medicine men, shamans if you want to use that word but not any more.

My bolding. Here you seem to imply that all "whites" originated in one single, common, now lost culture?

I regard this as an impossible proposition, and invite you to elaborate upon this theme. What do you think, actually?

[chachonee]

Oral tradition is based on respect to the original words told. Do not add or delete. Within a tribal nation, a certain clan or a person may be selected by his/her peers to be a storyteller.

Life events, environmental events, a person who may have sacrificed through going without food and water to obtain knowledge from a higher power for the betterment of all. Results in a answer or outline to a problem that may incur.

"Storytelling describes the social and cultural activity of sharing stories, sometimes with improvisation, theatrics, or embellishment. Every culture has its own stories or narratives, which are shared as a means of entertainment, education, cultural preservation or instilling moral values.[1] Crucial elements of stories and storytelling include plot, characters and narrative point of view.

The term "storytelling" can refer in a narrow sense specifically to oral storytelling and also in a looser sense to techniques used in other media to unfold or disclose the narrative of a story."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storytelling

[Sean Crabb]

Here you seem to imply that all "whites" originated in one single, common, now lost culture?

I regard this as an impossible proposition, and invite you to elaborate upon this theme. What do you think, actually?

I think that there were probably many tribes and variations of expression according to many factors of which, perhaps, skin colour could be one, although not necessarily the only or the most defining..... There are many concepts of race, culture, tribe, nation etc etc. according to the distinct definitions of those elements. Each person or group has its terms.

The so called "Celts" did not call themselves "Celts" that was a name given to them by the Romans much as the Spanish or English called the inhabitants of the Americas (name given by them) "Indians" They are obviously definitions that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Each people or group has the right to either redefine those terms or use their own terms. There were hundreds of tribes in the "Americas" just as there were in Europe and even within the Isles of Britain there were many tribes with some similar elements and also their own distinct elements.

[educatedindian]

"White" was never a tribe or people, except in the most bizarre white supremacist claims. Europeans didn't call themselves white before the 15th century. Ideas on race and racism itself didn't exist before then either. You're projecting the ideas you have and were raised with on everyone else, both Natives today and Europeans back then.

[Sparks]

"Sean Crabb" will probably not be able to comment anything more in this thread. He has been prevented from posting after his third post, which is here in the "Inti Ananda" & Shamanism of Light  thread:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3522.msg44743#msg44743

Sean Crabb has been put on moderated status for this post. He posted defamation and libel about someone reporting on an abusive cult. He also posted their identity, home address, photo, and even their passport number.

Basically he facilitated or was taking part in stalking. Whether he did this to try and silence and intimidate that person, or was so naive he didn't realize he was doing that, I'm not sure. I'll let him defend his actions in emails, if he can.