What is the New Age?

[Barnaby_McEwan]

• How is it defined? Can it be defined?
• Is it a religion?
• Are neo-pagans and neo-shamans newagers?
• Read any interesting academic investigations of the new age phenomenon?
• What do elders say about it?

[educatedindian]

Andreas's earlier points:

"New Age as a religion should be taken seriously, and be viewed not only as a "feel good"-phenomena."

Wendy Rose argues it's basically a phenomena of consumerism. I've often used the buffet table or fast food analogy. What most Nuagers want IS to feel good quickly for the right price or with as little incovenience as possible.
I and many other Native activists and writers (such as both Delorias) have also argued it's mostly about finding a newer package for old stereotypes of Noble Savages.

"The basic dogmas in New Age are comparativism - the belief that all religions are essentially the same - and the conviction that each individual shold be allowed to make his or her own spiritual world view."

Often that isn't true. Some Nuage groups are outright cults. Their Super Spirchul Shaman is Boss, period. No one is allowed to think differently.

"This individualism in not only a sign of egoism, but is a reaction to centuries of traditional, collectivistic repression of the individual."

Some historians would disagree, arge that the idea of the individual as distinct (some would say alienated) from any collective group or society is pretty recent. I think Foucault claims it all began about the time of the French Revolution. Some say this idea begins with Protestantism.

"New Age is the first spiritual belief system that put the individual in center, and that has been an important correction to collectivistic traditions, especially Christianity."

Not so. Protestantism definitely puts individual faith first. So do some of the Greek philosophies. So does Buddhism, esp compared to the other faiths around it like Hindusism and Confucianism.

"But this individuality has resulted in exploitation of other religions, probably because new agers feel that they need to borrow authority from the traditions. (A new home made spiritual way created by one individual in 2006 is not very impressive...)"

True.
 
"I think it is important to understand that New Age is a religion, in the broadest sense of the word,"

A lot of Nuagers themselves would disagree.

"and not only a set of feelings and confused thoughts, because we are actually seeing a conflict between two different world views. That conflict should be taken seriously, just at the conflict between Islam and Christianity."

Problem with that claim is, both Muslims and Christians have contributed to that conflict, and in terms of numbers and at different times in their histories power over each other, the two are far closer to being equal in size. NDNs have never done SQUAT to abuse Nuagers. We just don't have the power, nor are we inclined to. It should be a source of amazement for Nuagers that we've been as ethical as we have been towards them.

"If New Age had been developed three centuries ago,"

Would never have happened. Nuage could only have arisen following a civil rights movement, when they needed a new cover for old stereotypes and justification for their prejudice and guilt about taking Native lands.

"we would have seen a religious war between followers of New Age and the traditions that they exploit.
 North American Indians and Siberian Shamans would probably have killed them"

Andreas, this is downright race-baiting. First, because NDNs rarely kill for religious reasons. I know of a few cases where people who desecrated sacred sites have been killed in Latin America, but even that is rare.
Remember the power relationship: Nuagers, as part of white/western/European culture, are far more powerful. If Nuagers had somehow been around in 1700, Nuagers would have been doing all the murdering. After all, they have the numbers, and they would have had the weapons, not just military but legal and technological.

[AndreasWinsnes]

Wendy Rose argues it's basically a phenomena of consumerism

Consumerism is a part of New Age, but New Age is much more than just consumerism. Many people don't use (a lot of)  money on New Age courses, but they still believe in New Age dogmas, like the belief that all religions are basically the same and that the individual should be allowed to choose their own spiritual path without interference from others. Many are highly critical of new agers that charge money for therapy and ceremonies. They admire people who help others for free.

Consumerism can in many cases be seen as a consequence of this individualism, because spiritual markeds are bound to emerge around a movement where many individuals are craving for spiritual powers, peace of mind and enlightenment. ? However, I don't deny that many are also driven by consumerism. The problem is that they can easily use their religious dogmas to justify their spiritual shopping. ?  ?

Often that isn't true. Some Nuage groups are outright cults

I agree. I have met some myself. And many new agers are heavily into bragging about their titles and skills.

Not so. Protestantism definitely puts individual faith first. So do some of the Greek philosophies. So does Buddhism, esp compared to the other faiths around it like Hindusism and Confucianism.

Both Protestantism and Buddhism tells the individual what he or she should believe. They want the individual to conform to a belief system. New agers do the same, but they want the individual to conform to individualism: You can believe in almost anything as long as you don't give up your individuality. You can even be a New Age Satanist. There also exists so called new agers who are authoritarian, but many in the New Age movement label them as spirutal Stalinists.

A lot of Nuagers themselves would disagree.

Probably all would disagree. They can't stand the term "religion" because they associate the concept with organized religion, but the word "religion" originally mean something repeated and taken very seriously, something one feels bound to. New agers repeately follows some basic dogmas, like comparativism, which they take very seriously. They are bound to a set of beliefs, and this belief system should be called a religion, not just "spirituality". New agers are not above religion. ?

Problem with that claim is, both Muslims and Christians have contributed to that conflict, and in terms of numbers and at different times in their histories power over each other, the two are far closer to being equal in size. NDNs have never done SQUAT to abuse Nuagers.

My claim was that the conflict should be taken seriously and be seen as a conflict between to different religions; and not only as a conflict between native religions on the one side and a bunch of consumerists and frauds on the others. The conflict will probably not be solved if we get rid of the frauds and consumerists, because the New Age ideology will remain, and people will continue to exploit other religions as long as they believe this ideology to be true. But there is of course a big difference between this conflict and the conflict between Islam and Christianity. Most new agers hate violence, and Native traditionalists will not behave like Osama bin Laden, so the conflict will not escalate into religious persecutions.

Would never have happened.

I was speaking hypothetically.

Andreas, this is downright race-baiting.

Nope. In the second sentence you refer to, I use the word "probably". If new agers had visited religious communities of whatever denominations three hundred years ago and started to dress up like popes, imams, shamans or Indian princesses, and charging a huge amount of money for arranging ceremonies, then they would probably have been killed by someone in these communities if they had not stopped exploiting these religions after several requests from their religious leaders. Even many Buddhists would have reacted with violence. And it would not be surprising if some Native tribes had gone to a full scale war against such exploiters if they had the power to do so. The Christians and the Muslims certainly would have done that.

[Ingeborg]

My claim was that the conflict should be taken seriously and be seen as a conflict between to different religions; and not only as a conflict between native religions on the one side and a bunch of consumerists and frauds on the others. The conflict will probably not be solved if we get rid of the frauds and consumerists, because the New Age ideology will remain, and people will continue to exploit other religions as long as they believe this ideology to be true. But there is of course a big difference between this conflict and the conflict between Islam and Christianity. Most new agers hate violence, and Native traditionalists will not behave like Osama bin Laden, so the conflict will not escalate into religious persecutions.

When you speak about a "conflict between two different religions" [emphasis added], you apply the same view as nuagers do and assume there is only ONE ndn religion. This is at the same time a broad generalization as well as a reduction. By generalizing a multitude of religions into one shared by all ndn peoples, nuagers imply that these religions aren't unique and connected to one ethnic group. This given, this one ndn religion apparently had to be shared at some point in time (or why/how would it have spread to over thousand ethnic groups), and nuagers thus have a basis for demanding to be let into the 'sharing' by ndns. It is therefore vital that we keep in mind that we are speaking about a multitude of religions.

It is also a reduction to see this as just a conflict between religions. This view neglects a few facts about colonization and white privilege and implies that these religions in conflict face each others as equals. Still, most (I daresay all) nuagers will gladly take refuge to applying their white privileged position to exploit ndn religions and gain advantage over those who oppose their practice.

I also think your claim of nuagers being opposed against violence is not appropriate, as oppression is a form of violence, too. Threats and harassment, as further examples, are not exactly speaking of non-violent approaches either.

[AndreasWinsnes]

When you speak about a "conflict between two different religions" [emphasis added], you apply the same view as nuagers do and assume there is only ONE ndn religion

My mistake. I should have written "conflict between different religions". If you read the rest of the sentence, you see that I write: " ... and not only as a conflict between native religions on the one side and a bunch of consumerists and frauds on the others."

I know that there are huge differences between Native American religions, and it is important to stress that when one speak to new agers.

Still, most (I daresay all) nuagers will gladly take refuge to applying their white privileged position to exploit ndn religions and gain advantage over those who oppose their practice.

That is not the case in Norway. I know a few New Agers that would never imitate other religions or play Indian. Some even admit that it is wrong to use the term "shaman", but you also have many, a majority probably, whose feeling of individuality (and rebellion) is so strong that they will not listen to anyone who tells them what to do. That individuality is developed by white people, and I understand that many indigenous people interpret this as white privelige, but in many cases new agers treat Christianity and Buddhism with more disrespect than Native religions. The five world religions are called geriatric dinosaur religions. But new agers in the West are almost always white, rich, spoiled individuals who feels that it is their right and privilege to mix religions freely, and many think of themselves as upcoming demi gods in the quest for enlightenment. They actually believe that they are gods in the making, equalls of heavenly gods. So maybe the problem is more connected to New Age ideology as such than white privilege, but that ideology spring from a privileged position of power and wealth, historically justifed by racist theories, so they may be intertwined, inseparable. But I am not willing, without further research into this matter, to reduce the New Age religion to social and economic conditions: unearned advantages enjoyed by the desert generation, advantages earned by killers, their parents and grandparents. I am not a Marxist. The religious ideas of new agers can have their own power and influence on the followers of this religion, but that does not put New Age in a better light, on the contrary. Exploitive individualism is not nice.

(Some may argue that it seems a bit self-contradictory to state that I am not a Marxist when I also say that theories of racism spring from social and economical conditions. But theories of racism are in a special position, because they rises from a belief of superiority and feelings of threat from another group of people. Those feelings of superiority and fear of others are in a large degree related to social and economical conditions. Hitler, for instance, believed that the Jews where out to destroy the German economy.)

White privilege is an important concept, it covers, for example, new agers who travel with airplanes from Norway to Peru in order to drink Ayahuasca. They take the airplane for granted, but it pollutes Natives below them, it was created by capitalists who exploit poor people, and it is run by a company that is based on an unfair economic system. The money used to pay for the airplane ticket is a part of the same system, new agers would not have had that money without people in the so called third world who works like slaves to keep the system running. These new agers don't help Indians in the Amazon in their fight against ChevronTexaco, Ecopetrol or Burlington Resources. They have probably not even heard of the last two companies. But they sure want to drink some Ayahuasca before they return to Norway. Tourists in Hell.

I also think your claim of nuagers being opposed against violence is not appropriate, as oppression is a form of violence, too. Threats and harassment, as further examples, are not exactly speaking of non-violent approaches either.

I primarily define violence as physical violence. The concept of psychological violence is more problematic, and should probably only be used in the worse cases of psychological abuse, to emphazise how serious this abuse actually is. It can be a lot worse than physical violence. Abuse of a religion or culture should not be considered as violence if it is not part of an atempt to put a group of people in a marginalized position where they are also vicitims of physical violence or threats of such violence. New agers are knowingly or unknowningly part of such repression when they exploit Native American religions: cultural genocide. And the authoritarian branch of New Age is probably capable of violence if a powerful and carismatic guru tells them to.

[educatedindian]

"New Age is much more than just consumerism. Many people don't use (a lot of)  money on New Age courses"

It's not the amount, it's the fact that for most of them think of buying as their main "spiritual" activity. They're so accustomed to consumerism they think a $2000 workshop or a $20 book is a legit shortcut.

"Many are highly critical of new agers that charge money for therapy and ceremonies. They admire people who help others for free."

I've seen a lot of elaborate defenses of Nuage leaders' greed, including "money is just energy".
Ironically it's that sense of being a "well informed consumer" that drives their critique, not anything like ethics or thinking of what NDNs have to say.  
 
"spiritual markeds"

Not sure what you mean by that.

"Both Protestantism and Buddhism tells the individual what he or she should believe. They want the individual to conform to a belief system. New agers do the same, but they want the individual to conform to individualism: You can believe in almost anything as long as you don't give up your individuality."

"My claim was that the conflict should be taken seriously and be seen as a conflict between to different religions; and not only as a conflict between native religions on the one side and a bunch of consumerists and frauds on the others."

I'm interested to know: Can you name any Nuage leader claiming to be a Native elder or medicine person who is NOT a fraud, or motivated by greed and power?

"The conflict will probably not be solved if we get rid of the frauds and consumerists, because the New Age ideology will remain, and people will continue to exploit other religions as long as they believe this ideology to be true."

I don't believe so. Most Nuagers don't stay with their beliefs very long. From what I've read and seen they buy the books and seminars for a couple years and realize it doesn't work. But in them meantime they do enormous damge. My experience on the speaking tour in Europe showed me that maybe 3/4 of them CAN be reached.

"Quote:
Andreas, this is downright race-baiting.
 
Nope. In the second sentence you refer to, I use the word "probably".

Oh come on. That doesn't change anything. If someone says a bigoted epithet and puts "probably" before it, that doesn't make it any less bigoted.

What you did was unconsciously assume NDNs to be violent when provoked and with more power than we have now.

"If new agers had visited religious communities of whatever denominations three hundred years ago and started to dress up like popes, imams, shamans or Indian princesses, and charging a huge amount of money for arranging ceremonies, then they would probably have been killed by someone in these communities if they had not stopped exploiting these religions after several requests from their religious leaders. Even many Buddhists would have reacted with violence. And it would not be surprising if some Native tribes had gone to a full scale war against such exploiters if they had the power to do so. The Christians and the Muslims certainly would have done that."

Again, you're assuming (or perhaps wishing) that we are just like these other groups when the evidence says we are not.  

[AndreasWinsnes]

By "spiritual markeds" I meant spiritual shopping malls.

Can you name any Nuage leader claiming to be a Native elder or medicine person who is NOT a fraud, or motivated by greed and power?

No, I have never met one, but I know many who believe that each individual has the right to choose their own spiritual path without interference from others. And that include people who are not involved in giving new age therapy or arranging courses. It is their sincere belief.

My experience on the speaking tour in Europe showed me that maybe 3/4 of them CAN be reached.

I am very glad to hear that, but it does not change the fact that New Age ideology can easily be used to justify playing Indian.

Oh come on. That doesn't change anything. If someone says a bigoted epithet and puts "probably" before it, that doesn't make it any less bigoted.

Race baiting and bigotry is not the same. I am not trying to put Naitive Americans in a bad light. My only point was to show new agers who read this site that their exploitation is so bad that in former times it could have led to religious wars.

... when the evidence says we are not

?

That is also good to hear, from a modern, humanistic perspective. But I seem to remember that both the Cherokee and Evenki tribes actually did kill persons who pretended to be medicine persons or shamans. Unfortunatley, I can't remember where I have read this, but I will try to find my sources. But please correct me if I am wrong. However, the Lakota elders sure used strong words when they issued their "Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality". There is a huge difference between words and actions, and I am familiar with hyperboles, but if someone declare war after a meeting, then that does not seem too peaceful. ? From a post-modern perspective such a declarition will in it self be seen as a sign of bigotry. But again, I have almost done no research into this matter, so I will withdraw my statements if I am wrong.

By the way, is it not more correct to speak of Dominant Group Privilege than White Privilege? I mean, I know a famous Sami Harnerist who travels to Peru to drink Ayahuasca, and he enjoys the same priviliges as the rest of us whites in Norway. However, a quarter of the Sami people feel that they are subject of discrimination in Norway. But would not any group feel supressed and discriminated against if they had been conquered by another group?  

[Moma_porcupine]

Mainstream culture seems to be mostly about consumerism and escapism .

The assumptions that create consumerism are not necessarily directly about money . Consumerism is a belief that having more is better . This can be a bigger pile of stuff , ? a bigger pile of knowledge , a bigger ? pile of different types of experiences , the ability to choose from a bigger pile of options , or maybe just having a bigger more impressive personal attributes /accomplishments.

Most religons are colored by what people come to believe ,from how they live on the earth and I think New Age Spirituality largely mirrors the underlying , mistaken beliefs , of an acquisition based culture .

New Age also mirrors the large role TV plays in mainstream culture . New Age has strong component of fantasy and escapism . ? One of the activities I often hear New Age believers practicing ? , is "creative visualization". ? This is almost always directed at getting a ? bigger or better pile of stuff . ?
 
The term "New Age ", in itself expresses the hope that some miraculous shift will save us, from the mess created by collecting big piles of stuff .

New Age people I know go on and on about coming salvation through consciousness shifts , harmonic convergence , ? the earths magnetic axis doing a flip flop , ancient Native American wisdom , or maybe the intervention by extraterrestrials . ?  This fantasy rescue comes from all sorts of unlikely ? , dramatic events , that would make good TV plots, but which require no actual engagement with reality , long term planing ? , organization , or sustained effort . ?

I would agree with New Age, ? in that I believe there is something common to the core of most Spiritual experience .

To me it seems this is expressed through the perception , participation , and creation of sustainable , harmonious relationships . This can give rise to a experience of unity , joy and transcendence .

With the exception of the New Age , most Spiritual teachings recommend achieving this through working with what we already have . Again , it comes down to working with reality . As far as I can see , true Spirituality has absolutely nothing to do with getting a bigger pile of stuff .

People seem to be attracted to Spiritual practices that come from cultures that have achieved a high degree of harmony with the ordinary day to day reality of their lives , but it is not possible to recreate this harmony by adding parts of these cultures to our personal pile, any more than it is possible to create music by gathering an out of context collection of individual notes .

Talking about the individual being at the center , is an interesting concept , when this is part of a discussion of Spirituality ? . ? The word individual implies being separated from . As harmony requires relationship , I wonder how far an individual can go in achieving any sort of true Spirituality ? I also wonder what comes first , the individual, or the aforementioned treasured pile of stuff? ?  ?  

Of course , anything that is alive , ? has a Spiritual capacity , and developing a relationship with a higher power can come into our lives at any time , especially if we are paying attention and looking for it . People have genuine Spiritual awakenings in all sorts of circumstances , such as in times of great sickness , near death , on the battle field , or conversely , ? through the perception of natural beauty , or the experince of something being so right , it feels planed by a higher power. ?  

I think this capacity for genuine Spiritual insight to come out of any situation , ? is what so many people find confusing about their experience with New Age frauds , who are so quick to take credit for the preexisting Spiritual capacity in people . ? The Spiritual capacity is real , the frauds are not .

I have known many people to get involved in New Age beliefs , and in my opinion New Age ? is mostly a reflection of a consumer culture , that desperately hopes to be rescued from itself , by an escapist fantasy called the "New Age".
 ?

[AndreasWinsnes]

I can't find the sources mentioned in my last post, so I feel it is only fair to withdraw my statements about the Cherokee and Evenki tribes. If I remember correctly I read about the killings of impostors on http://cherokeeelderssociety.com/ or I got the information by using a link from that site. But the site is down, so I can't check it out. If anyone here know the Cherokee traditions, please correct me if I am wrong.  

[Raven_Walkingstick]

I do know the death penalty was applied to those that committed murder, but I don't recall it being applied to frauds. I do remember a story my grandfather told me about a fraud within his tribe, however the man was not put to death but exposed by the elders, and was forced to leave the tribe.

[weheli]

 Yes Raven, and  I also know that a Chief sold some Cherokee land to the government , but told the Tribe it was for less than he really received. When it was found out  he was tracked down , by order of theCouncil,Elders and other Chiefs, and killed. I also know that the Cherokee was told and treaties, YA RIGHT, were signed for certain lands and the Cherokee were told that encroachment upon this land by any settlers would be a breach of that treaty and the Cherokee's could protect this land, even if that ment killing the intruders. WELL we all know how that went.

Having said that, the Cherokee's had a way of dealing with all things, punishment according to the deed. You would never find someone running around within the Clan's,Tribe,Nation saying "Hey I'm a Medicine  Man" ;Dor "I'm a Uku", ;Dor "Hey let me read you my medicine cards or crystals" "Hey come over here and let me, check your chakras and read your auras, and while I'm at it let me take you on a short vision quest to a different plane", or "hey guys lets get out or pipes and smoke them, and lets put a little something GOOD in them".

Just what I know.

                                                                                                      Weheli

[gus]

Well Im sometimes accused of being new age, but never twice haha Ive got a good right hook   You know when i was a kid I had some strange experiences. The bible showed no way of relating to these experiences.  so reading about other cultures some of them seemed to have an understanding of such things and I was naturally drwn to thoise cultures rather than the one I was born into which seemed not to meet those needs.
Of course now I realise that there are many complications involved and it is not so simple.
So I think some newagers may be genuine seekers for explanations of things which are not sufficiently answered by Christianity etc. Of course they are then vunerable to those that would take advantage and make a fast buck out of their blind mystic fumblings.