Hi Barnaby and Company:
I'm certain beyond any doubt that this is the same guy.
As mentioned in the SourceWatch listing I referenced, Moss co-authored
The Spike with fellow journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave (with whom he had some differences, as he mentiones briefly in the RealAudio interviews I linked to) and also wrote something back in the 1970s called
Chile's Marxist Experiment. He's written a slew of other political novels:
Moscow Rules,
Carnival of Spies,
Death Beam,
Mexico Way, and a few others.
He talks briefly about co-authoring with de Borchgrave in the RealAudio interviews I referenced, where he also briefly mentions his career as a professor of ancient history (he made some statement about having been the youngest professor ever at the university at age 21 - he'll seize any opportunity for bragging rights), which he also talks a bit about in his introduction in the audio tape series
Dreamgates: A Journey Into Active Dreaming. If you listen to the RealAudio interviews, and check out the
Dreamgates audio tapes, it's the same voice. I think he mentions his previous career as a journalist in his introduction to the tape series, and also about how he was allegedly guided by dreams - while still living in London - to the place he currently lives in Troy, NY. He talks about how he was allegedly guided in dreams to quit writing "commerical pot boilers" as he calls them, and in the opening chapter of
Conscious Dreaming, he talks about a dream of shopping for suit and having the suit turn into a animal skin coat with a label reading "shamanic" inside the garment.
In the RealAudio interviews, he mentions having been "a target for the KGB" because of his dealings in the former Soviet Union. I've overheard him in person on more than one occasion talking about having gone to Vietnam as a war correpondant (where he claims his life was saved on numerous occasions by messages he's received in dreams), and recently (during a workshop I went to on January 6th, which I talk about later in the post) overheard him bragging about having encountered "a beautiful woman" reading his novel,
Death Beam. Something to really brag about
I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I have attended two of his workshops - well, actually 1 1/6 of his workshops (I'll explain this). I had serious doubts about going the first time because I had no experience with and was wary of the whole New Age workshop thing. I lived in the Sedona, AZ area for a few years, and so got broad exposure to all manner of New Age weirdoes and shameless profiteers. I wasn't initially convinced that Robert Moss was one of them, because there seemed to be something to the stuff he writes about in his non-fictional work on dreams.
I have had powerful dream experiences througout my life, and his dreamwork material had come to my attention in what seemed to be a timely manner. I had no previous exposure to writers on the subject of dreamwork, so this is part of where he got me. I have since read other books by authors who wrote about these things while he was still busy writing spy novels, and have seen where it looks like he's lifted almost every ounce of his material from elsewhere.
My experience the first time I went to see him was a mixed one. I met some good people and fortunately did not have to spend much money to check this out. My initial impression was that he was carrying around a lot of power. I felt it coming off him as he seemed to be probing my - at the risk of sounding like a fluff bunny myself - aura. He was probably trying to figure out how he could sucker me into the little empire he's building around himself.
He uses a frame drum in his workshops, and I had no previous experience working with the drum. The first night of the retreat, he drummed for the group. While he did this, I reached a point where I seemed to move beyond experiencing images and into a sort of void space. My body began shaking and convulsing and moving around involuntarily, and my eyes were vibrating in their sockets. In trying to come back into my body from this experience, I fell over in my chair from the convulsive nature of what was going on. I had never experienced anything like this and nobody else in the circle seemed to notice what had just happened for me.
Later in the retreat, Robert was introducing the concept of dream re-entry to the group. I volunteered to play front and center in demonstrating this, partly because I didn't believe it was something that could be done, so I really didn't think anything would come of it. I had read enough of his work before going to this retreat, and a lot of his alleged personal experiences that he talks about - especially with dream re-entry - always struck me as being quite lofty and too fantastical to be true. After all, he is a novelist, and novelists make a career of embelleshing the truth and/or lying for fun and profit.
One thing he did that set my BS-o-meter off was when I was sharing the dream experience I was volunteering to re-enter. He made a point to tell me (and the group) that a symbol from my dream which held particular significance for me in fact meant nothing at all (how could it mean nothing at all? - it was everywhere in my dream!). This is in direct conflict with his repeated statements that the dreamer is the final authority on their own dream, and that nobody can tell the dreamer what their dream means. So, he contradicts himself quite openly. Maybe he thinks its okay to tell someone what their dream means or doesn't mean if he's the one doing it.
I won't go into great detail about the experience that followed, because it's probably outside the scope of this forum. I can share more about it later if it applies. In short, there was a repeat of the convulsive stuff - this time far more intensified. My breathing became ragged, and I eventually had the sense of moving beyond the dreamlike imagery. I actively entered what I have come to understand as an induced, altered state of consciousness. It had quite and effect on me, and on the group itself. When I had come back from the experience, I noticed that some people were in tears and some people were just plain scared. I was a bit of both.
Robert himself seemed uncomfortable (though trying hard not to appear this way) with what had taken place, and he offered me little in the way of aftercare in terms of the experience. I could sense that he did not feel he was being payed enough to work with someone in this way (or for presenting at this center in the first place), so I was essentially blown off after 15 precious minutes of his time (along with a that of a woman he's been working with for a number of years and who has completed his "dream teacher training") in consultation and left to care for myself in the wake of the experience. The most advice I got was to "find a shamanic counselor in my area", something for which I have neither money nor inclination. I was disoriented for days afterward and left to figure things out for myself.
I e-mailed Robert twice within a couple of months of the retreat to follow up and get some feedback, but I never received a response to either of these messages, so I let it go for some time. I did note his lack of response, and it didn't sit well with me at all. What does a few moments spent in responding to an e-mail messge really cost?
I became interested in working with a dream circle in my area. I wanted to share the handout I had received at the retreat outlining his basic approach to sharing a dream and getting feedback in about 10 minutes' time. Since the material is copyrighted, I knew I would have to ask permission and I figured it would be a good test to see if he would respond to a message from me
this time. I figured that if I did receive a response, it would be quite telling, since it involved his precious copyrighted material. I'll be darned if he didn't respond in the negative ("sorry, that is only for people who come to my workshops") within a matter of hours to my request for permission to share the simple document, whose contents can be found and printed right from his website.
I also witnessed him imposing an what struck me as an inordinate amount of will when another woman in the circle was enacting a bit of "dream theater" using one of her own experiences. This was a person who had already been doing her own dreamwork quite well for the last 20 years. Robert was quite adamant as to how she could or could not choose to play out the dream experience she wanted to share with the group, telling her she could not do things the way in which she felt was necessary, that she had to do it his way. I also noted that in talking with others in the circle during breaks, that there were some who didn't seem to be buying his particular song and dance, and I held on to this knowledge for later reference.
Because I feel that what I experienced at this retreat was quite real and valid for me, and that he was merely facilitating the event, I vascillated for quite a long time as to whether this person was a positive or negative influence in my life (something else I recognized as having come up quite clearly in a dream I had prior to finding any of his material or even learning of his existance) and whether he was for real or not. Since he had become rather cold and unresponsive towards me, I was reaching a point where I didn't believe in him any more the way I used to. I got rid of all his books that I had accumulated on my shelves (mostly the older dreamwork stuff - I never liked any of his most recent stuff, which struck me as 10 tons of crap). But I wasn't entirely free of his influence yet.
Since I knew I needed to make a decision one way or the other so I could quit wasting my energy on trying to figure him out, I signed up for a one day workshop in Seattle that took place on January 6th (this last Saturday). I wanted to watch him action again (this time more closely), and also see what his reaction to me would be if I were to suddenly show up at one of his workshops again. I knew he wasn't likely to be happy to see me...
Robert acted the part of being all sweetness and light when he first saw me walk in, with a forced smile and a sugar-coated "nice to see you again". I sensed that this was not really how he felt, and this was confirmed once my husband had left the room (hubby was not signed up, just dropping me off). I noted the absense of any real power coming from him this time - this time he was just another guy, nothing real special. His demeanor towards me changed 180 degrees once hubby was gone, especially when I got out some fruit to eat, as I had just been in the car for the last 3 1/2 hours getting there and I was starving. The workshop had not yet begun, and people were still just arriving. His tone got very nasty when said to me "you know there's no eating in MY circle" (the possessive nature of how he regarded people gathering to participate in one of these workshops was another red flag for me - I strongly believe a circle belongs equally to all who compose it).
I told him I was not aware of this, as he had never said anything about it before. Besides, I had only seen the guy during the one retreat, and that was almost two years ago. I have never seen someone look at me with such abject hatred in their eyes. He seemed to have a quality around him of sucking in all the light immediately surrounding him (there were lamps in the ceiling all over the room, which was well lit) - like a black hole. I also noticed this quality surrounding the woman I had met previously during the retreat who has been working with him for a number of years in his "dream teacher training". My first impression when I saw her was how horrible she looked. Though I hadn't particularly liked her, I had remembered her as being much more vibrant and healthy when I saw her at the retreat almost two years ago. This time she was dull and seemed lifeless and colorless; she literally looked vamped. Another red flag.
I was beginning to get the confirmation of what I had begun to suspect, that this guy is really just in it for the ego gratification, the illusion of power, and the money, and anyone who won't allow themselves to be manipulated by him to meet those ends is undesirable. But this wasn't the end of it...yet.
During the first hour of the workshop, he began putting on the show I had become familiar with during the retreat I attended. This time, being more observant that I had been last time, I noticed how he uses his voice to raise and stir up the energy of the group. This energy had a very hollow, shallow quality to it. Once the circle was "opened", we were all seated and he got out the drum and drummed for the group. I started shaking and such, the way I did last time, though I was more in control this time because I am more familiar with how this works for me. It's how it still works when I do it on my own. It's nothing new anymore.
His new trainee came over and invited herself into my physical space - something I don't care for in other people - and began rubbing my back and trying to coach me through what she obviously didn't understand herself. For all her claims of being an "energy worker" (which isn't saying much in my eyes, because everything on this planet works with energy, whether conscious of it or not), she appeared not to have a clue what I was doing. I wanted to tell her to get the hell off me, but I didn't want to make a big scene, so I didn't say anything. After Robert finished drumming he went around the circle and had everyone briefly mention what images had come up for them during the drumming. He then called for a short break, calling over the new trainee to come speak with him.
At the break, I left the room and I continued eating the fruit I had earlier been forbidden from consuming in Robert's presence. He had his new trainee - the one who invaded my space - come to me and tell me to leave. I was struck by the fact that Robert couldn't face me himself to deliver something of this nature. He was sending the minions to do his dirty work.
The excuse she gave was that I was "too advanced" for this workshop, that this was "for beginners" and that I was "scaring people". I was told I should come to something more advanced. One thing she didn't understand is that Robert's "advanced" workshops are "by invitation only", and that I had never been extended an invitation to any of these. I had asked Robert in the [distant] past about the teacher training, but he said I needed to attend two of his "depth" workshops first, and that the five-day retreat which I had attended didn't count as one of these. He intimated that he felt I was "not appropriate" for this kind of "training". I noted that there had been mention earlier in the day of an "advanced" ("by invitation only") workshop taking place the next day at the same location, and I noticed that though being told to come to "something more advanced" I was not invited. It was clear they just wanted to be rid of me. So, I called my husband while I gathered up my things and told him to come and get me.
To their credit, I was given back the money order I had sent in to register for the workshop, though it isn't saying much about them in my eyes, because it was the only honest thing to do from a business standpoint. I am left with the overall impression that this guy is a phony who tries to hide the fact as cleverly as possible behind shreds of truth. He may have the tiniest bit of real power which he primarily derives from other people, overinflates and utterly abuses to serve his own ego. I think the people that he "trains" are extremely gullible, married, middle-aged women with money to burn.
I've learned my lesson, but I feel a sense of needing to warn others not to give this guy money. Doing so only eggs on someone who is - in my experience - insincere, vampiric, unscrupulous and who possibly went into this "business" to detract attention from his questionable political dealings earlier in his life.
I could be wrong, but my experiences with this person have been less than pleasant overall, and I tend to trust what I experience directly above anything else.
~CD
