Film on Leonard Crow Dog

[C Standing Bear]

This has been a good thread. I can agree with what has been said with the exception of the last post which I feel is blind conjecture.

Leonard is my Leksi (uncle) and he is a good medicine man. Is he also human, yes. Idon't know any of us that hasn't fallen or messed up and after going through that has been better for the lessens learned.

Uncle does not like being looked at as some god or someone that should be placed on a pedestal or something. He does what he does because of his path in this life and he chose to follow it.

[NanticokePiney]

  I am all about staying in ones own culture so I was distressed to see  Leonard Crow Dog giving out Sundances to Nanticokes. Especially ones that didn't deserve it. I feel the Sundance should be earned if it is given out also. Not just to any "braids and shades dog soldier".

[shoshone1]

Hahahahaha I hvae knowen (Uncle Leonard for quite some time and yes he is who he is ,But what he does is K ,sometimes ,But what i would say is that lenoard is truely a Medcine man he is the only man that i know who fasted on top of a Teepee for several days ,He had 14 spirits that was given to him .But with what he has done in the pst he now has 3 or 4 spirits that still remain w/him . I have much respect for him and have been to Crowdogs paradise and saw w/my own eyes of what they call crowdogs circus ...

[C Standing Bear]

Just curious. How would you oknow how many spirits work with a man, I mean truly know? I wouldnt.

ANd piont given there are some things that go on that could be considered cirucs side shows but is that from him or the people that come there?

[Cetan]

A lot of kolas are related to Leonard and my ex is his son (Lakota way); they all say the same that Leonard is a good medicine man but a bad man. He will allow anyone to come for the right price and at one point even had a price list (my brother saw it). He is also generous so when he goes out drinking (especially after Sundance) he diesnt just buy a few bottles, he buys cases.  A lot of my friends back home wont go over there because of all the Europeans.

[Creative Native]

I think we've all done things that we aren't proud of.

[JimYoungbird]

I appologize for the interuption here and mean no disrespect to anyone, but the following remark needs to be addressed.
"I was distressed to see  Leonard Crow Dog giving out Sundances to Nanticokes."

The dance being referenced here was not brought to the Nanticokes by Leonard Crow Dog. I am intimately aware of this dance and pretty much all that has transpired there from its very inception. This dance came from a family in Wanblee who is very well known and respected, not Crow Dog. The dance in question in years 1 and 2 was, repeat WAS a good one. It has since gone the route of so many things that are not appreciated for the correct reasons. It still goes on....but there are NO NATIVES involved at all. We all went back to Wanblee.

If Nanticoke Piney would care to contact me personally I will educate him/her more fully on what has occured.

Again, forgive my abruptness, but I felt it necessary to speak to this immediately. Jim.

[ska]

Dear Jim,

Regarding this statement you made in  your last post:

"This dance came from a family in Wanblee who is very well known and respected, not Crow Dog."

Just wondering: does the "well known and respected" family include the members Godfrey or Charles Chipps?

ska

[JimYoungbird]

That same line, yes. There were 7 men designated to do this from that family. I am told.

[ska]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for confirming my suspicion that it might be members of the Chipps family who started this Sun Dance far away from Lakota country.

Some members of the Chipps family are known to sell ceremony and several frauds that I know of have claimed them as teachers.

I believe there is already some discussion of this on the NAFPS site.

ska

[JimYoungbird]

Ska, I would like to research more about what is said here. Thanks, Jim.

[Walks Proud]

Then I'd suggest you chek the postings under the steve mc collough name.

[JimYoungbird]

I've just finished reading seven (7) pages of postings Re: Steve McCullough. I havent found anything in them that connects to the dance that was /and is currently being held in Delaware. Meaning in so far as named individuals are concerned. There are , however, alot of similarities involving the goings on around the "dance" itself. Generally a "cult of personality" and lots of sucking up to white folks to maintain a relatively stable support base for the propagation of the "leaders"s" EGO.

To be honest about it, I never heard the name of Mr. McCullough before these postings, but Vernal Cross is a very familiar name, however, unconnected to the delaware debacle.

The event held in delaware (july 5-12 /2009) will eventually come down. It has been forbidden by those who originally authorized its creation in 2001. It was a good thing at its inception, but has become a sham and mockery of true ceremony. Put up solely for the purposes of inflating an already limitless ego. I am sorry for the ones who refuse to see this, as it has been expressly conveyed to them to stay away. I pray they see the truth so as not to be among the ones who are hurt when this thing comes apart.

Thanks to all those who have added to the information here and provided a fine research tool to those in need of such. Jim.

[Walks Proud]

The reason I pointed that out was because you had mentioned Chipps selling out. That name has been associated with Mc Cullough on more than one occasion.

[JimYoungbird]

I mentioned that the people who brought the dance to DE were of that family lineage.(Chipps) The moniker of "sellout" was placed by another, who is I'm sure better informed than myself. I was merely providing corrected information so the record would be clear in reference to the origins of that particular dance.

I wonder though....If a man(intercessor) has a vision that he should carry a dance to another area and has the blessing/support of the elders of his tiospaye....is that indeed "selling out"? I know it is against the decree of Arvol LookingHorse as announced from GreenGrass, but there seem to be a great many recognized elders and advisors from many communities who are not influenced by the decree. Can there be no consensus on this matter. And if not, does not a persons free will grant them the ultimate decision in the matter? But thats just me....always a question.

Thanks for all the assistance and also to the  Admin. for the existance of this good place . Jim.