Author Topic: People who post in this forum  (Read 27065 times)

Offline Moma_porcupine

  • Posts: 681
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People who post in this forum
« on: March 14, 2007, 05:24:51 pm »
I just wanted to remind people to be careful about trusting anyone they only know on line . Unless you know someone and their community , it can be dangerous to assume they are who they say they are without doing some research and cross referencing to make sure. I think ? most of the people who post here regularly here are probably trustworthy.  HOWEVER we have had a few regular posters who seem to sometimes create sock puppet IDs or have been found out to be promoting and running a questionable "traditional healing" buisness of their own .  Obviously a forum like this , being open as it is , is going to attract some people with their own agenda. Myself , I see this as a place to provide information ,  not really a place to hang out and make friends . 

People who have been traumatized by a bad experince with a fraud might be vulnerable to getting taken in by an offer of friendship from someone who looks to be a part of a cyberspace community opposed to frauds . Often no one really knows who people posting here are  , and there are some people posting here who may have a questionable agenda . I guess this is just basic internet safety , but I thought it would be a good isea to remind people , that this forum is no different than other places in cyberspace , and people shouldn't automatically assume everyone who posts here is trustworthy .
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 05:22:43 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 861
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 06:17:19 pm »
Thought I'd make this a sticky topic: no harm in emphasising caution.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 06:19:40 pm by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline nahualqo

  • Posts: 57
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 07:38:56 pm »
What is a sockpuppet ID and what benefit is there? Let's face it, you are placing yourselves as interceders in religious affairs. A Native American acquaintance of mine became a pipeholder after a long quest initiated by a spirit he encountered in nature. He now has a degreed education and he is a pipe holder. Medicine people I know have a strong ability to affect the reality of others due to their own strengths and passionate life experience.

I am new here but I can sum things up pretty quickly. Not only are you involved with religious policing but you are attacking some people's livelihood. I don't have any sympathy for those that are making money on our beliefs falsely but you have got to know that you are sticking your foot into two areas people most often hold sacred, their religious beliefs and their money and their money is usually the more sacred.

When you start a battle don't be surprised if it turns into a long war. Also, you should not let yourself become extremists. Let the other side turn to extremism it ruins their credibility. Strategically speaking it is always best if you hold the middle ground where you can remain on solid footing with yourself and others. Don't sound paranoid even if you have good cause to be paranoid.

There have been too many thousands of false prophets in the world, but if you asked them, I bet way too many of them would tell you that their belief was sincere. We now have rock stars, movie stars and Evangelical preachers who now collect most of the zeal that humans are prone. Since these prophets generate money within the social milieu they are acceptable and still they fall from grace from the sacred body that rose them up.

People that make money falsely upon our spiritual beliefs are not acceptable except to themselves or to those they delude. We live in a time of uncertainty. With uncertainty people seek always answers. The unwary have always fallen prey to bible salesmen, traveling snake oil shows and false prophets. If one is too protective, one never finds one's answers, but if one is too unwary then one must be willing to expose the truth and free oneself and others from the grips of a lie.

On the other hand, Jesus of Nazareth was not a proper Rabbi, he seemed to misquote the Bible, the elders of his days looked upon him as a false prophet. He also preached a form of radical Judaism, not Christianity as we know it. For the first several hundred years almost all of Jesus' disciples were Jews. Jews and Christians worshipped interchangeably in Jewish synagogues and Christian Churches. It wasn't until the council of Mycea 325 AD I believe where Rome denatured Christianity, split the two religions irreversably preventing them from joint worship. Rome needed to take control of Christianity because all by itself Christianity was changing Rome out from underneath the emperors. The Roman authorities took control of Christianity the belief system, it was codified, made acceptible to Rome by decree. The power of Rome forced changes upon the natural body of human beings connecting to the wounded healer, Jesus of Nazareth. Rome created a disconnect to Jesus and made the emperors Pope's. This is a fact. Before Christianity could conquer Rome, Rome co-opted Christianity. To do so it made Jews the enemy when Jews were the original Christians. Rome destroyed and enslaved the entire people of Israel.

Since this time, Rome became ardant destroyers of those that did not obey the party line. Entire religions, belief systems such as the Gnostics were erradicated because they did not comply with Roman religious autocracy or in this case Theocracy. Now we have since that time those that seek to authorize religious belief and those that seek to destroy religious belief.

My suggestion is to destroy disbelief. Disbelief is created when false prophets are given credance and true belief suffers. Our human destiny is to connect to the magical body of the universe. We may connect through science, religion or magic. Some connect from the Earth itself, some through poetry.

I will tell you this much. It is not a Native American Culturalism to destroy others beliefs based upon spiritual or religious beliefs. I hope you know that you are threading a thin needle in order to comply with our spirituality and our general spiritual belief in religious largesse and the rejection of false prophets. We all know what happens in our Native cultures when a false prophet has been exposed. He or she becomes a personna non grata!

I wish you well. I pray that you thread that needle well. To thread it poorly or to miss your mark would be unfortunate because we have suffered too long under the spell of not being socially and spritually, religiously accepted as Native Americans. The Mexicans think they are Roman Catholic when the large portion of their DNA is Native American. Before the conquest, the Mexicans chose Tetzcatlipoca and Huitzilipochtli over Quetzal Coatl who never practiced human sacrifice too. The Mexicans mistook Cortez for being the return of Quetzal Coatl. They have to wear that mistake to this day with every cross they wear.


I just wanted to remind people to be careful about trusting anyone they only know on line . Unless you know someone and their community , it can be dangerous to assume they are who they say they are without doing some research and cross referencing to make sure. I think ? most of the people who post here regularly here are probably trustworthy ( especially the moderators ) HOWEVER we have had a few regular posters who seem to sometimes create sock puppet IDs or have been found out to be promoting and running a questionable "traditional healing" buisness of their own .  Obviously a forum like this , being open as it is , is going to attract some people with their own agenda. Myself , I see this as a place to provide information ,  not really a place to hang out and make friends . 

People who have been traumatized by a bad experince with a fraud might be vulnerable to getting taken in by an offer of friendship from someone who looks to be a part of a cyberspace community opposed to frauds . Often no one really knows who people posting here are  , and there are some people posting here who may have a questionable agenda . I guess this is just basic internet safety , but I thought it would be a good isea to remind people , that this forum is no different than other places in cyberspace , and people shouldn't automatically assume everyone who posts here is trustworthy .


Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 861
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 04:19:52 pm »
What is a sockpuppet ID and what benefit is there?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_sock_puppet

The section titled 'Concern troll' on that page might also be of interest.

Quote
Let's face it, you are placing yourselves as interceders in religious affairs. A Native American acquaintance of mine became a pipeholder after a long quest initiated by a spirit he encountered in nature.

While you're at Wikipedia you might also want to look up 'non sequitur'.

Quote
I am new here but I can sum things up pretty quickly. Not only are you involved with religious policing [...] The Mexicans think they are Roman Catholic when the large portion of their DNA is Native American.

Oh, I see. We are involved with religious policing but you are not, even though you think that Mexicans should not be Catholics.

Offline Jason

  • Posts: 16
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 07:12:59 pm »
Quote
The section titled 'Concern troll' on that page might also be of interest.


OOOOPs, there you go again. If you don't like what you hear you attack mindlessly. You need to listen more and say less, then perhaps you will learn something. Anger management classes might be a good idea..........

Offline nahualqo

  • Posts: 57
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 11:29:34 pm »
Thank you, now I know what a sockpuppet is. I know isn't it something. I asked a Mexican what tribe he was from and he got really angry with me telling me he was Catholic. I was at a bar with a Navaho female friend and a Mexican Indian friend from the Yaqui tribe came to visit with us when he recognized me. My Navajo friend asked my Yaqui friend what tribe he was and he didn't understand the English so I told him in Spanish what she asked, he was about to tell her that he was Yaqui and she unexpectedly got angry and told him, "oh, you're a Mexican," meaning that he wasn't Native American. It gets really weird.

I don't get the non sequitur part. People with real spiritual power affect other people deeply. I don't disagree with your interest in frauds. I think it is amazing that Catholicism is the religion of Mexico when they killed so many people in the name of Christianity. The Spaniards caused the death of 30 million people the first 50 years in Mexico and Central America. My grandmother was forced to Catholic Missionary boarding school as a child and she had a horrible experience. It sure didn't entice my family to remain catholic the minute we could shake it off we abandoned it. I just think that you are in for a fight with people who believe in what they are doing religiously, that's all. Oh, by the way, I don't go around telling Indian looking Mexicans that they should return to their original beliefs, I am smarter than that! In fact, I don't comment on religion to anyone, it just happens to be the major drift of this board.

On the aside, my family believes that Catholicism is a fraud, they don't do anything that they preached  about. They aren't new aged frauds, they are old timey frauds.


What is a sockpuppet ID and what benefit is there?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_sock_puppet

The section titled 'Concern troll' on that page might also be of interest.

Quote
Let's face it, you are placing yourselves as interceders in religious affairs. A Native American acquaintance of mine became a pipeholder after a long quest initiated by a spirit he encountered in nature.

While you're at Wikipedia you might also want to look up 'non sequitur'.

Quote
I am new here but I can sum things up pretty quickly. Not only are you involved with religious policing [...] The Mexicans think they are Roman Catholic when the large portion of their DNA is Native American.

Oh, I see. We are involved with religious policing but you are not, even though you think that Mexicans should not be Catholics.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 12:18:08 am by nahualqo »

Offline Kevin

  • Posts: 182
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 02:32:09 am »
"When you start a battle don't be surprised if it turns into a long war" - said by Nahualgo.

It seems to me that Indians have been fighting for a good 400 years or so, that's my outside observation and opinion on the matter.

Then Naualgo goes on to say  "you are attacking people's livelihood" - well I thought that was the purpose of this forum, to expose crooks and hustlers. I thought I was old enough to not be amazed at people anymore but it never ceases, which I suppose is good and do what you have to for what I'm going to say - I really can't help but wonder if Naualgo isn't  the name of a certain part of the anatomy of that fast mustang in the movie "Hidalgo", the movie where that guys races in the deserts in the Middle East, and I'll leave it to the reader's imagination as to which part of a horse's anatomy I am referring to.
I'm federally recognized  person and I approve of this message - Kevin

Offline zoi lightfoot

  • Posts: 139
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 11:43:03 am »
Lets see,historians say Leif Erricsson landed in 1000ad,that was acknowledged by both
Indian oral history,and Viking Sagas (oral history,different name is all) as a peaceful
trading visit.Eight years later however Thorwald,brthor of Leif,took it upon himself to
come and take what he wanted,killing to get it.needless to say Thorwald and his crew
did not make it home.
However regardless according to my calculation that makes the Indian Nations battles
with non indian peoples 1000 yrs old exactly.

Offline chiefytiger

  • Posts: 74
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 02:05:05 am »
Im starting to get what is going on here ,As for me I belive we as Native ppls have been battling w/the ska ppls for a long time ,reguardless of our way of life and ceremonys are being sucked up in the nuage movment and the so called wannabes ,
I keep my back to the wall/ Dont mean to be disrespectful toanyone just the truth in my words
Chiefytiger

Offline Unegv Waya

  • Posts: 86
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 05:30:03 am »
Thank you Mama Porcupine for starting this topic.  I would only add that sometimes it isn't just some of the people one meets online who one should be cautious about but even some of those one may have met several times at native based gatherings.  I have had the experience of discovering that someone I thought I knew was not who and what they stated.  Indeed, that has happened more than once.

The world is full of frauds and good actors.  Thus, I do not base my opinion or view of a person solely from what I see of them at native gatherings of any sort.  Until I see how they walk outside the powwow grounds I take what they say and how they act with a touch of skepticism.
nvwatohiyadv

Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 03:30:50 pm »
Mama Porcupine did well to offer this advice and to make this topic a sticky.

Here are some things I have observed over nearly a decade on other sites:

At those other sites, there were too many times when we found that persons were *not* who they said they were.

There was one venue plagued by persons who had multiple identities or tried to subvert discussions by pretending to be other than what they were.

Others would present or pose as disinterested parties when in fact they turned out to have agendas of thier own. (One  of them hoped to milk a scandal being discussed so that that person could later write a book and then market it to his or her own advantage)

The strangest and creepiest situations ensued with persons who would operate a nice person 'sock puppet' identity on one ISP and that same person would have one and sometimes more than one troll 'sock puppet' identity registered to a cheap ISP such as AOL.

Others posed as disinterested parties and turned out to have businesses of their own, were recruiting for their own projects.

Others, troubled but more innocent, would try to turn the discussion into personal therapy and the site was not equipped for that.

And sad to say, if one is not careful to omit identifying characteristics, others can figure out who a discussant is, and find ways to scare them or shame them either in the online discussion or by sending private messages. If its bad, a person may disappear from the discussion and never say why.

It can get ugly and scary in the online world.

What we can accomplish online is to can assist visiting readers and each other by providing what I call 'validating information.' -info that can prevent a person from wasting time and vitality on a dead end project or one that is fraudulent. Or information that can support misgivings a person already has and assist him or her in escaping sooner from a set up that is bad.

Or we can provide information or insights that can assist journalists to examine features of a situation that need investigation that usually go un-noticed and that if examined, will assist that journalist to write a very much better story. 

But the real healing takes place in the world of face to face relationships.

Mama Porcupine is describing a real and troubling situation for which caution is advisable, a topic that in my opinion does deserve a sticky.

Mahekun

  • Guest
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 02:35:38 pm »
Nahualqo, you miss the point. A person can believe they are the embodiment of a purple unicorn/chicken if they want to, and others might think it strange but have no right to tell them to not believe it. The problem arises when this person starts offering to teach others the way of the traditional Cherokee/Ojibway/etc. purple unicorn chicken, or selling psychic readings from the purple unicorn chicken for 3.99 a minute. This is what crosses the line from personal belief to exploitation of actual traditions and cultures. This is what causes centuries old teachings to die out or lose meaning.

It's also offensive when someone claims to have NDN blood when they don't. In doing so, they're devaluing actual NDNs and themselves. Plus, if a person will lie about their own genetic makeup, what else will they lie about? There are enough lies in the world. Everyone deserves truth.

The aim here is not at telling someone what they can and can't personally believe. It's to help stop and prevent the warping of native teachings and exposing people who are claiming to have native heritage when they don't.

Offline Phillip63

  • Posts: 16
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 10:12:39 pm »
Thank you, Mahekun! ;D

I've been accused of being a big old meaniepants with a personal vendetta against individuals.  This is far from the truth.  What I AM against is the theft and cheapening of native cultures.  I have no qualms about personal belief systems, only the commercialization of ersatz native ones.
"Acts of injustice done. Between the setting and the rising sun. In history lie like bones, each one."

Offline Oglala Lakota82

  • Posts: 15
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 01:33:52 am »
I was born Oglala, Lakota my family's history dates far back to the 1700's. I am not in the hatred pool I just cannot stand the folks who pervert our Sacred Lakota ways for profits. My family blood line is full of both Warriors and Holy Men; now sorry to sound like these New Age crazies but I can prove my background. I was born in Pine Ridge, South Dakota and what these new age nuts practice is nothing of our Lakota Culture.

I just want to say thank you for letting me join this group and I will try to do my best helping this group research these crazies. Together we will bring these nuts down, Together we will be strong.

Offline choctawwind

  • Posts: 5
Re: People who post in this forum
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 06:23:25 pm »
I want to say thank you for allowing me in this forum as well.  I am a tribally enrolled Choctaw woman from Oklahoma.  I have been sundancing for 16 years.  I have quested 12 times including a complete 4 day 4 night fast.  I have a great disdain for people who go put up a sacred sweatlodge and call it ceremony.  I spent years learning the songs and singing in a sweat, where I chopped wood, travelled for rocks, cooked, cleaned in the kitchen.  These sacred ways are all we have left and we must think about our future generations regardless of skin color, the spiritual practices must be kept intact and its not a year or two, its a way of life.