http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamingandMedicineWheel/

[educatedindian]

Their welcome message:

"Description

Niyawe Skeno!(Thank You For Being) It is our greeting when meeting, saying hello or see you later! It's being thankful to be in the person's presence. It's greeting the person's UATA OKYE (Core)

This space is ONLY being used to screen for applicants who are truly interested in learning Shamanism/ Dreaming, Seneca tradition, healing and learning about the medicine wheel... Silent members after a time will lose their membership here as it stagnates all of our wheels ...

There is a monthly fee to get into and to be a part of the sites where this teaching goes on. Everyone receives much time and energy. What you put into it is what you get out of it... This means that you need to speak up and work on things. It is up to you to bring energy to your wheel.

What is Shamanism? It is about survival... it is dreaming, seeing the what is of you and others in order to grow, learn and heal. It is studying your personal wheel to learn about you through healing and learn how to use your medicines. Both fun and hard work, but well worth it.

We have been named Utháyôni'nika'aa by the Elders. This means Coyote, Little Wolves. Our sacred tool is LAUGHTER and Light heartedness.

To All Applying:We let in a certain amount to come in at a time, so I thank you for your patience. To All Here- please when you can answer the entrance questions, ask any questions you have, set up your interview at your earliest convenience so that we may get the others in."

An actual Six Nations member had this comment:

"There is no such phrase as "Niyawe Skeno."

"O:nen ki' wahi" is how you say "goodbye for now" or "see ya later."

I have no idea what language "UATA OKYE" comes from, but it's not from the Six Nations. Anything comparable in Iroquoian would be "Orenda."

[cleardreamer]

I just came across this one myself and was about to post when I saw it was already here. Whoever this is seems to be spamming Craig's List in every part of the world (mainly Europe) EXCEPT the US and Canada (but I could have missed something) with the link. Interesting...

[GoddessGirl]

Anyone know any more about this group?
GoddessGirl

[frederica]

Not the group itself, but just the name sounds a lot like a takeoff of SunBear. Started something called the Bear Tribe. Wrote several books, I think one was something like Using the Medicine Wheel to interpert Dreams. He was Ojibwa and  what he was saying was not their Traditions. I don't know if they are Seneca Traditions or not. Plus, they are charging fees. I would be skeptial.

[Superdog]

The website this yahoo group stems off of is located here:

http://www.totemreadings.com

Seems like it's a woman claiming to be a "Seneca shaman" who was trained by her grandparents.

Just skimming through and the only name I'm finding is "Wahtsikæte'"


She's got a pay list for services such as totem readings and consultations, hands on healing lessons.  The yahoo group is the start of a screening process.  If you participate actively in the yahoo group for two weeks you move on to another group called Dragonflies for another two weeks.  The second group is described as an extended interview process.  The first two groups are free of charge and off minimal shamanistic teachings and lessons on Seneca culture....she doesn't go into any detail of what happens after that.  The website is just a paysite to set up consultations.

Someone's gonna have to see if they can figure out the real name  of this one.....probably someone we've heard of before.

Be careful reposting her stuff.  She's got a copyright claim on her page.  Might be trouble.  Not a big site though...takes a few minutes to go over it.

[Superdog]

Quick update on the google search i did.  The name came up in a few places

here's one:  http://www.swaggerspot.com/busineesesandservices.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
Totem readings
Name WeniE-mail Private


Company or Profession: Totem readings

There are 36 stones on your medicine wheel, each with its own totems that help you understand how you experience, deal with, and fit into the world.

Your wheel is unique to you, and through it you are connected to all else.

Understanding your wheel is to understand yourself, as you are right this moment.

Your wheel changes: it moves, it stagnates. Both are necessary for learning and healing.

Wahtsikæte', a traditionally trained Seneca Shaman is offering readings to introduce you to your animal totems.

The reading covers your North, East, South, West and Center totems, as well as your guides and areas of your life currently in need of healing.

Contact information and/or Location http://www.totemreadings.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Here's another classified:

http://www.adpost.com/us/health_beauty/Massage__Therapy/80/

She's number 93.  Check the box then go back to the top and click "checklist" on the menu bar and then "view detailed information" after that.  Here's what you get:

--------------------------------------------------

Header
 
Category: Massage / Therapy
Ad Number: 11401
Description
 
Shamanism goes by many names and there are many different traditions, but at its core it is about survival and dreaming; healing & learning about You.

It is also about dreaming consciously: seeing the what-is and living more functionally. All of us have things that prevent us from seeing clearly, that get in the way of our survival.

Are you interested in learning to heal, studying with a Native initiated shaman?

To a certain extent, you decide the “curriculum. Bring us your dreams, your goings-on, your problems. This will let us know where you are and what needs to be taught. There will be no lectures, no intro class. What you bring us lets us know where to begin.

Please visit this site for more info. All questions welcome!

Please apply here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamingandMedicineWheel/
 
Posted By
Wahtsikaete
 

click above for more
info on this user
 Name: Wahtsikaete Griffin 
City: Rochester 
State > County: New York > Monroe 
Country: United States 
Email: Reply to Ad
 
 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------

here's the profile info from the above site:

Name: Wahtsikaete Griffin
Male
Rochester
New York > Monroe
United States
Member since: Sep 17, 2007
Number of Contacts: (0,4)
    I teach shamanism (Seneca tradition), survival according to natural & cosmological realities.

The work that I do & enjoy with students is very personal, very challenging yet very rewarding.

It takes being brave to walk this path because to be brave is to love oneself enough to heal and learn.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tsisqua]

Hello and Welcome!
Welcome to your one-week trial with the Yahoo group Dreaming and Medicine Wheel.
It only takes a week to see who is set on working hard and who will only sit and read.
This file will give you a quick orientation to how our process works, and information on what we’re looking for in students.
About This Group
Dreaming and Medicine Wheel is the first of two groups we use to assess potential students. Here you will be able to meet our Shaman, student teachers, and long-term students as well as others who are considering this path. It is a private group, and posts are only available to other group members.
This group is meant as a very broad introduction to this tradition; it is for us to meet one another and mutually decide if we’d like to continue together. The second trial group, Dragonflies, offers more specific teaching and more focus on your personal issues and interests.
We are looking for students who have a strong motivation to learn about this tradition, and who also truly wish to work on their own healing. Those who show such motivation will be invited to our second group, Dragonflies. Membership at Dragonflies is also for 2 weeks and is offered at no charge.
If you go on to Dragonflies and wish to become a student (and we wish to teach you), you will be asked to set up an instant message appointment with two of the Gatekeepers. A half hour to forty minutes will suffice for the appointment with Gatekeepers. Fees and placement will be discussed at that time.
After Dragonflies, you will move to a permanent teaching site.
How to Proceed
As soon as you’ve read through this file, please go to the message boards to say hello; this demonstrates respect for the intimate space of others. If we do not hear from you within 3 days, your membership will be deleted. You will be welcome to reapply when you have more time to participate.
We have some simple expectations for your participation in this group:
1. At the end of this file, you will find a list of questions that must be answered if you wish to go on to the second group, Dragonflies. They are designed to help us learn more about you and where you are coming from (your perspective). You must participate in order to learn in this tradition, and answering these questions is an excellent first step to showing that you are willing to do so!
2. There are several files kept at the site that we ask you to read. They will give you some background information on what a Shaman is, what they do, the experiences of other students and so on. Reading through the files will give you some good background information about this tradition. We welcome any questions you may have about anything in any of the files. Questions are a great way to get a conversation started, and again show us your motivation and willingness to participate.
3. We ask that you make the time to truly be a part of this group. This means posting on the boards at least twice a week. If you do not have 1 or 2 hours per week to spend here, please reconsider whether this is the right time for you to be here. What you bring us (dreams, problems, experiences) lets us know where to begin teaching you and this why participation is very important.
4. Your place here is as a student. U’uwa’ is the teacher. You will be asked to look at your indoctrinations and how they affect your functionality. Please have the willingness and openness to do so.
Note to Sky Applicants
SKY participants are asked to be part of Dreaming and Medicine Wheel for 1 week before going on to Sky. You must also fill out the file questions and set up a one-hour appointment with U’uwa’ BEFORE going on to Sky. It is a chance to meet with Shaman personally.
After two weeks at Sky, you will meet with 2 Gatekeepers on instant message to discuss whether you wish to continue and fees. A half hour to 40 minutes will suffice for the appointment with Gatekeepers.
You will stay at Sky. http://groups.msn.com/TouchtheSky

About Exchange
These two sites, Dreaming and Medicine Wheel and Dragonflies, are offered to you free of charge for 3 weeks. This is to allow you time to learn more about our Shaman and decide if you wish to become a student; we believe this is a more than sufficient amount of time. If you wish to continue after your trial period has ended, you will need to offer payment (exchange).
Exchange means to give something in trade for another’s time, knowledge, and effort. It is what allows is all to survive, what allows the payment of rent and bills and so on. Your paycheck is your employer’s exchange with you. The teachings you will receive are a gift, but U’uwa’ also needs to be compensated for her time and energy.
Exchange is strongly emphasized here, because many have come wanting something for nothing. There is no exchange expected here at Dreaming and Medicine Wheel  or at Dragonflies;  the time and energy spent on you is a gift. All that is expected is your presence and participation.
Once you decide to go on to a teaching site, you will be expected to offer exchange.
Traditionally and historically, a Shaman serves his or her collective and is in exchange supported by them. This allows the Shaman to physically survive and balances the exchange of energy between the two. Taking time and teachings from her without offering anything in return is theft. It harms her and takes from her abundance, even as she works for our well-being, learning, health, and abundance.
Payment
We often run into the idea that shamans or medicine people must work for free. If this is a concern for you, please do not hesitate to email Weni’tase (at) yahoo.com, or to bring it to the boards.
People are often concerned as well that they will not be able to afford a monthly fee. The monthly cost ($25 a week) of studying is significantly less than the cost of one 45-minute visit with a psychotherapist or one hour with a massage therapist.
We all have bills and needs that must be met. That applies to Shaman as well as her students. If you are not willing or able to find the small amount required, we will not be able to take you on as a student at this time.

Please Answer the Following Questions:
*There are no right or wrong answers, so don’t worry!
(1) What is your first name & how old are you?
(2) What do you do in the world (job, student)?
(3) How are you responsible to others ?
(4) What is exchange?
(5) What is respect and how do you show respect?
(6) Have you studied shamanism before? If so, for how long? **
(7) What do you hope to gain from studying Shamanism? **
( Are you interested in working on your own healing?
(9) If you could get away with shoplifting at your favorite store, would you do it? Why or why not?
(10) How did you find us?
(11) Is there anything you would like to share?

[Tsisqua]

When I first began studying Shamanism I thought I understood exchange.  It seems like a simple enough idea.  You buy something, you pay for it.  Someone gives you a gift, you give one back.  Someone does something nice for you, you do the same.  At least that's how I was raised.

But I came to Shamanism through modern Neo-Paganism, where there is a very strong focus on the ego and the needs of the self above the needs of others (notto mention western society in general). Magick and ritual is performed to one's own purposes, and there is believed to be no shame in that. Teachers, priestesses, and even their own self-styled Neo-Shamans (they really have no clue what a Shaman is) are expected to offer exchange back to the Divine in gratitude for the gift of their healing and precognitive talents.  The way they offer this exchange is in continual unpaid service to those unlucky enough or uneducated enough not to have been gifted the same talents, hoping instead for donations.  Many live off of government disability payments, as the energy they expend on others takes a physical toll.

I believe this philosophy resulted from their rebellion against Christianity,
the blind obedience expected by the church, the absolute authority of the
priest, and an unyielding system of tithes.  They reversed the roles of church leaders and seekers, hoping to restore some honor to the profession through the expectation that spiritual leaders view their role as a privilege.  (This isn't to say that there aren't just as many Neo-Pagan leaders who make compelling spiritual sounding arguments for stealing your shirt and asking you to kiss their asses on the way out the door, either, but that's another subject altogether.  I'm referring to the leaders who make some pretense toward a noble purpose.)

So, when I came to U'uwa', this is where I was coming from.  In fact, I met her at the local Pagan Pride festival.  I signed up for classes, 16 weeks, 2 hours each, $10 a session.  There were 5 other students, all with at least minimal exposure to Neo-Paganism.  Within less than a month, I think, none of us were paying.  We all had reasons and excuses and they were all very good.  But they all came down to the fact that we felt our needs were more important than hers and that if she were really a Shaman, she'd be willing, better yet OBLIGATED to teach us for free.  After all it was her calling, her position had been prophesied and she'd been trained since birth!

I was websurfing one afternoon, seeing what was out there for Shamanism, and right away found one of the many websites that exist for the sole purpose of "educating" whites and westerners about what makes a "real" Traditional Shaman.  For 99.9% of these sites the most significant qualification is that the Shaman not ask for any form of compensation, beyond, maybe, tobacco, corn, and blankets. (lol)  The claims of the webmasters (usually people who have been raised outside Native cultures seeking to find a connection to something they feel they've lost) are generally supported by responses to letters they've written to Tribal Councils (who may be nothing more than western style capitalist corporate entities run by people of Native descent) agreeing that the webmaster is correct, no "real" Shaman would expect payment for their aid.

Silly me!  I thought I'd educate U'uwa' in her own tradition.  I pointed out
that, "This website here says you're a fraud because you expect me to pay for what I bought," though not in so many words.  I expected her to defend herself.  To prove me wrong.  After the hours of classes that I hadn't paid for.  After the almost daily, as many as 5+ hour long internet sessions for months.  After all the dreaming, and healing sessions, and phone calls, I expected HER to prove herself to ME.  Can you believe it? 

U'uwa's talents ARE a gift from the Divine, but they are more a gift to us than they are to her.  WE are the ones who must be grateful for them, especially if we wish to continue receiving them.  They take a terrible toll on her. 

The thing is, this tradition DOES incorporate a philosophy of exchange, whether it be through cash, tobacco, wild turkeys or otherwise.  And it IS a valid lesson to teach.  But how is she to teach exchange to us dirty greedy capitalist pig-dogs (my words, not hers!) who worship money and put our own needs above all else WITHOUT bringing money and payment for her services into it?  Apart from the fact that wild turkeys won't pay her electric bill.

So there you have the lesson I received on exchange.  Your response to it is your first assignment.  If you wish to continue you may receive three weeks free trial at another site where you can decide if this Tradition is right for you, and also where U'uwa' and the other members of her collective can decide if you are a suitable candidate for further study.  If everyone decides you are to go on, making a commitment to offer financial exchange for U'uwa's gifts so that she can support herself while she teaches you is your first test.

Joanna

I'll say something else on this topic - paranoia is rampant in western society - its really unfortunate but I understand its existence.

I dont say or do things in maliciousness.

My center wind is Dreamer -
I am affected by the Wind of Dreamer
& will say some things -
& its interesting how down the line,
I see the dream develop - well it was there
- I just picked up on the dream.

My students can tell of different times
when this has happened for us.

Shamanism is a hard path -
its about facing some hard things
about ourselves in order to make room
for the great things about ourselves
& to have them grow.

We dont walk on eggshells.
I am going to teach as I was taught -
which is a practice handed down -
not something learned in a week-long
or semester- long course.

Observation - the first element of dreaming -
is about see what is right
in front of your face - truth.
So if we are remembering something about your dream
- it isnt that we are out to get you
- its part of how we help w/ your healing
- so that you can see things.

-U'uwa'

By Janel:

Much of the literature currently available about shamanism describes a
process of "journeying"--a guided meditation where the lower world is
visited, guides are met, and 'power animals' found.

A bit like driving to the zoo, meeting a tour guide, and picking your
favorite animals...

That's not how it's done here. Please don't stay too attached to any
Andrews, Castaneda, Harner, Ingermann, or Villoldo you may have read.

This is traditional, Native-taught Seneca shamanism, and there are no books orweekend workshops on becoming a Shaman. There is a medicine wheel and there are totems, yes. There are also a lot of other things you may not have heard of: moons, Mysteries, and fragments, for example. The teaching styleis non-linear and takes many years, if not a lifetime, to understand.

We are sometimes asked what "new age" means...for me, it means taking what you like from various traditions and blending them with little understanding of the pieces that have been grabbed. It shows up a lot with middle-class white guilt, and while well-meaning, is full of ignorance.

The hows and whys of this tradition are taught along with the wheel. This is
necessary in order to Dream--you cannot see what is if you stand in
ignorance. This is not a new-age tradition. It is thousands of years old,
and though it is being taught in an unorthodox way (over the internet), is still traditional.

U'uwa would walk away in a moment
if she could, it is not a life many want.
Some think the Name is awesome and want
to be Shaman. Not everyone carries
the Shaman energy and most of those
who do don't want to walk there.
There are many in Asylums because they
can not handle the Shaman energy. 
To be Shaman is to carry all those you
work with. Sounds like a charming thing
to do, doesn't it?  Many people who begin
their Shaman training only last a
few years and bow out. As they heal
and begin to feel the load of all
those in the community they realize
that they don't want this and run.
I have seen this many times with
my teachers. These initiates thought
it was gloriest to be a Shaman. To
be able to tell others I am a Shaman,
they don't even know what it means
or entails. It taxes you to the point
that you don't care if you live or die.

Shaman can not be your friend!
Shaman is your teacher!
Shaman cares deeply about all
the students but can not be friends.
When people begin to think they are
friends of Shaman they think they
don't have to exchange and dump all
their shit and expect Shaman to clean
it up for them. They come into Shaman's
house and take things and touch things
without asking. I would no sooner go
into your house or anyone elses and
touch or remove your things. As soon as
I touch something of yours I put my energy
on it. I do healing work at my home
and I have to smudge my house every time
someone leaves. I can feel their shit,
and if I don't clear it, it affects me.
Shaman feels this more then anyone.
Shaman sits in the centre of the Wheel
and feels all those who are within Its space.

My teacher told us that we were putting
her in the hospital. It was our stagnation
and our lack of respect because we didn't
give exchange for everything we received.
I respected my teacher for who she was and
told many about her but I did not give enough
for what I was receiving in the community site,
with her everyday teaching. I went to every
workshop I could and they were not that
expensive considering they were the whole
weekend long. You could not stay in a Motel
and have food for less. When we went to
workshops many ppl gave gifts to the Shaman and
Sorcerer as well as paying for the workshop.
Gifts are from the heart, if they are not
then Shaman can feel this lack of respect
and know that the gift was given because
this person wanted to show others they
gave a gift. When you give gifts from the
heart they have such power in them and when
you explain why you felt this gift was for
them It shows you walk in the dreaming.
It took me a while to learn this too.
Even though I was so hypersentive I still
did not understand. Being with U'uwa has
taught me so much more about appreciating
her as Shaman. U'uwa as well as my teacher(shaman)
can not work outside the home because of health
issuses caused because of who they are and the people
they work with. It is not easy to watch how things
affect her from what goes on in the Communities.

We are all affected by what we do and what we take
on from others, But Shaman is affected by
everything we do and all the other shit
we bring with us. It is not Shamans job
to take care of our shit but to help us to
walk through it and heal it. But to many want
Shaman to be their personal dumping ground
because it is easyer to shit on Shaman then work
on their own healing and then not even give them
exchange for what they did. Don't you have to pay
to have your Garbage removed from your house?
Whether you pay it through taxes or directly
it is still exchange. If you didn't pay you
would have to get rid of it yourself or it
would start piling up in your driveway.
That means you would have to put it in your car
and drive sometimes great distances
to get to a Dump and then pay to
leave it there. Exchange!

We all want to find healing so we can be
functional in the world around us.
But when we find healing we find how screwed up
everyone we know is. We soon loose friends
because they don't like your way of thinking,
they like sitting in their shit and don't like
you showing them that they are. We also find
new people who are walking their path.
We begin to see how everything in life is related,
being plants, animals People etc.
They all show us where we are in our life's process.

U'uwa charges so little for what she gives
to people. The toll is great on her, it is
not something she can walk away from.
U'uwa was born to be Shaman!
She lives on so little it is hard to imagine.
Yet we think Shaman can live on air.
Gee did you ever try paying your electric
bill with air? Or putting food on your plate?
U'uwa is very special and people only see
this when they want something. U'uwa
would give this burden to anyone who
wants it so she could live a peaceful life.
Do you think you want it?

Charles

-On medicine cards & totems-

It depends on how you use the cards ....

For example, let's say you want to find your totems -

We wouldnt suggest cards .... b/c -

Choosing a card from a pile or say
picking up a big encyclopedia
of animals & randomly flipping
to discover a totem animal
- is a mental body approach .... its putting
an animal into our minds ....

Allowing a totem animal to re-connect to us
is about letting them come to our minds
- & to do that, our minds must be free & empty
.... it has to be that way for the ground
to be ready to receive whatever comes to it
.... its about Surrender.

A totem animal comes to us on their terms - not ours.

Watch your sleeping dreaming & in your daily life
for totem discovery if this is one of your goals.

-U'uwa'


Shamanism is not a religion ....
Its something I want to toss in here for all
& felt the need to say. It is part of why I
dont like the word "Shamanism" - the "ism"
suggests that it is .....
plus it is a Siberian word .

Its a difficult thing to explain ....
but experiencing traditional shamanism
brings this to light pretty quickly ....

There are "universal realities" - which is
in part what shamanism (or Uisehta' in Seneca) is ....

Love, compassion & forgiveness are realities ....
as are many things. Part of the living
of shamanism is in really doing these things ....
& sometimes we have to very clearly work
w/ these things ....

-U

--Uuwa on those who are enthusiastic about their healing:

I really really hope so (want to heal)
because a lot of people say that they do
& when they find out all that it entails,
they fall into victim
mode, want to run, or get "ugly".

Also what I said here is true
(people do often fall into
victim mode, run, get "ugly")
- if it initiates you
(affects you, touches you)
- then that is for you to look at.

It wasnt said about you but if you take it that way
- that's something else.

-U

We have a lot of students who like to save face
- it isnt truthful. It doesnt mean we should
all be nasty to one another.
But shamanism is about being real
- not  sweeping things under the rug
- thats very western.


REACTIONS & PERCEPTIONS

Our reactions color our perceptions - & sometimes keeps us from seeing the what is/ the dream.

-U


I'm concerned about this response
as well.
It does not give
one a feeling of openess and accpetance.
It feels as though you are
actually *expecting*
someone to give you a
reason to come back and
throw their words in their face,
as if you are just waiting for the
oppotunity to do this.
(From a member at DreamingandMedicineWheel)

Uuwa:
No again. Part of dreaming is observation & that requires some remembering. Its like telling the story of the day - this happened, then that happened, then this - the sequence, etc can be important (but not always).

I dont have to wait for the opportunity - if it presents itself, it does - & for a reason - a lesson to be learned.

Shamanism in part is about learning to walk our talk - & we try to remember things about a person in order to show them when thus hasnt happened.

It isnt done in maliciousness - its a process - & in order to make a process work, there are some things that must be done.

-U

This group and its companion trial sites are free,
and we welcome you to meet us and see what
this tradition might have to offer you
over the course of 3 weeks.

If at the end of 3 weeks you wish
to become a formal student,
you will be invited to a paid teaching site.

Exchange is extremely important for Shaman,
both energetically and physically, and
we've found monetary exchange to be the simplest
way to accommodate the often long distances between
U'uwa' and her students as well as being more straightforward
for all involved.

Please remember that you are receiving a GIFT.
3 weeks is a long time to work without pay.
Please keep that in mind.

If you have any questions or concerns about this,
please ask.
We are happy to discuss this with you
on the boards or perhaps in an IM chat
(assuming we can all find a good time!)

Niyawe!

Uæhkwëönyö'niku'uu (Janel)

Of course it's much easier to give advice than to practice it, but one
of the things I've been impressed with as I'm getting back into the
groups more (I've been in exile quite a while) is the openness with
which other members post. Don't be afraid to make mistakes, or to
expose yourself to others. Defensiveness, avoidance, anger, excuses,
blame on anyone's part are signs that something that's been said has
hit home. Admit it and own up to it, even it you don't like it, then
it can be worked on. Let go of what you think you know about
Shamanism or any form of New Age spirituality as quickly as possible.

And recognize most of all that if/when you get to a point where you're
considering joining a paid site you are considering making a serious
commitment, forming a bond that never really goes away. That bond
effects the Shaman, and thereby everyone else U'uwa' works with. You
will be as responsible to us for that as the rest of us will be to
you. If you find it's gonna be a lot harder than you thought, there's
a right way and a wrong way to reconsider your commitment.

Hardly sage advice, really just some basics, but I hope helpful and
informative.

Glad to meet you,
Joanna

Hello and welcome to Dreaming and Medicine Wheel! Please have a look around in the threads here and feel free to ask questions; we also ask that you read over the files (link in the sidebar on the left of
the group page).

This is a temporary place where you may have a chance to go onto
Dragonflies and explore deeper for another 2 weeks.

We delete posts frequently to keep the place fresh and the wheel
moving.

Participation is very important in keeping our wheel here moving.
Please say hello!

Here are some questions we ask to get the conversation between us
going-don't worry about 'right' or 'wrong'!

Niyawe,

Weni'tase

(1) What is your first name & how old are you?

(2) What do you do in the world (job, student)?

(3) How are you responsible to others ?

(4) What is exchange?

(5) What is respect and how do you show respect?

(6) Have you studied shamanism before? If so, for how long? **

(7) What do you hope to gain from studying Shamanism? **

( Are you interested in working on your own healing?

(9) If you could get away with shoplifting at your favorite store,
would you do it? Why or why not?

(10) How did you find us?

(11) Is there anything you would like to share?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamingandMedicineWheel/

[educatedindian]

This is her yahoo 360 profile and blog. She looks all of seventeen in those photos.
http://360.yahoo.com/profile-K7cozZskbrFAaywGCULA

Found more advertising of hers.

http://www.gayalliance.org/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=42&sobi2Id=131&Itemid=112
Gay Alliance Resource Directory
Griffin, U'uwa' (Shamanism: Seneca Tradition)
 
Email: EmailThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

[No problem. It's UatoOkyeUwenu@groups.msn.com. That may mean she has an MSN group she's peddling her wares at too.]

Phone: 585-271-4808
I teach Shamanism, Medicine Wheel and Dreaming Seneca Tradition (trained by my grandparents for many years).  I also work with people on their personal healing, which includes their knowledge and awareness of their medicines (healer, visionary, dreamer, etc) and becoming more functional in their medicines.  I also work with them on their personal wheels and getting to know themselves, which includes totem and moon work.  Shamanism cannot be learned, unless and until it is lived.

------------------

This part of her website makes me laugh. Griffin must peddle entirely to some pretty goofy people who never think through just what she is saying.

--------------
http://totemreadings.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=5
Sample Reading

This sample reading is provided as a general example....

The East totem is about the way each of us presents ourselves to the world.

At your East anchor on your personal wheel, your wind is Healer & your totem is Leopard Seal....

------------

Are there many leopards among the Seneca?

--------------------

....At your South anchor, your wind is Firekeeper and your totem is Zebra. Firekeeper involves containing a person's emotions so that they may see clearly during a process/healing/ experience. The Zebra's appearance serves it as camouflage, and it has great stamina - helpful traits for your Firekeeper medicine.

The West totem is the duality totem and is about how we teach and learn, and how we give and take.

----------------

A lot of zebras in the homeland of the Seneca also?

----------------

At your West anchor on your personal wheel, your wind is Warrior & your totem is Columbine. Warrior is about being strong in the face of everyday challenges--speaking your truth and following through with action. With your Columbine totem, all you need is a seed--a beginning--to take off, to learn, to lead.

The North totem is our council .... it is the elder part of the self that holds the mystery of our destiny.

------------------

Yeah, well, a columbine is a flower. Often seen as dove like or a symbol of peace.

----------------

....Your Dreamer totem, Skunk is intelligent, playful, and has a powerful line of defense.

--------------

Playful? Obviously this person has never been to the country or been around a skunk.

--------------

Your Moons
Moons are our emotional body. There are 13 moons which spin at our crown chakra....

------------

Chakras? She can't even get right which kind of Indian she is claiming to be.

And this all over the site:

"All content on this site is copyright 2008 of Wahtsikæte' and the Seneca Nation."

Would that mean the Senecas could tell you to shut down?

One her followers/marks, Joane Paceli, wrote that article Tsisqua reposted.
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usin&c=words&id=12117

[frederica]

The Sebeca put Twylan Nitsch off the rez with her business, but she was suppose to be doing some other things. Bigger following also. This seems to be internet.  Jamie Sams wrote a book on Medicine Cards and Power of Amimals.  Wonder if it's along the same line. Another mixture. There are other of these Seneca Medicine Wheel Groups Wolf Clan. May be an off-shot of it. They will make you a Seneca Medicine Wheel Chart for $325.

[Tsisqua]

Just a FYI...regarding the http://www.totemreadings.com/

In a message dated 6/25/2008 7:51:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kathy.mitchell@sni.org writes:

Dear Ms.:

Thank you for notifying us of this website.  You are right,  the Seneca Nation does not in any fashion extend permission for this group to say their website is copyrighted by the Seneca Nation. We have a rich and proud history that we do not "sell" for profit. We will inquire as to the validity of remarks made in reference to statements referencing "copyrighted by the Seneca Nation".

Kathy Mitchell


Kathy Mitchell
Tribal Historic Preservation Director
Seneca Nation of Indians
467 Center Street
Salamanca, NY 14779
716-945-9427
snithpo@sni.org 

Just passing this on from one of our members.

[Tsisqua]

Just a FYI....they seem to have moved from this address or closed down...not sure which

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DreamingandMedicineWheel/

[Superdog]

It seems on the totemreadings.com site she took out the references to the Seneca Nation.

Where it used to say "Seneca" it now reads "traditional Shamanism"

Not sure why the yahoo group shut down

[Tsisqua]

Since we let them know the Seneca Nation hadnt heard of them...they took it off....I have the postings someplace from the group....I'll find them and post them up

Added: this is the explaination I got:

Re: If I may...
The copyright notice including the Seneca Nation has been taken down and was not meant to be put up. That was a mistake of a student.
What more would you like to know?
Wenitase

When I asked about the charges asked...

Re: If I may...
I also wish to say for the record that our teacher does not do the charging (even though what is asked for is exchange for her time). I know she does not believe it is wrong to charge for her time but she won't. And she works endlessly for others. Everyday for hours upon hours. The students who care about her and wish her to continue ask for exchange for her and no she did not instruct us to do this.
Weni'tase

Re: If I may...
The only thing a student will not get our teacher to do is fly to you to do a ceremony.
We have had people ask for that (believe it or not).
She can not afford that sort of thing and would not anyway.
But since ceremonies are of humans, she could tell a person how to do their own ceremony. We all do ceremonies every day if you think about it.
Weni'tase

Some more postings...

Re: If I may...
And the mention of chakras. It is a Sanskrit word as shamanism is a Siberian word.
The word wheels could have been used. Uuwa teaches that there are many wheels, our cells are even wheels. I have learned this from many traditional teachers.
We use the WORD chakra because again it is something easily recognized, and when you go deeper in the teachings, you will see what was/is meant by it. It is a word used only to make a bridge to beginning the understanding. We know that people are heavily into their mental body and we will use what words people can grasp immediately in order to get them to the bigger picture.
We are clear about what native we are.
Manipulation is a wonderful tool but please have respect for it and use it functionally. Please be careful of what you try to destroy.
Wenitase

Re: If I may...
For the record, I do all of the ads.
And few have been placed in Europe.
What is being taught here is valuable and I do what I can to make it accessible to people.
The readings are just walking in a person's space and there is nothing wrong traditionally about asking for an exchange for that. I have had people approach me and ask me to make them things (native objects) for sale. When I say no, I get back "you are native! That is what you do!" I do not do it because I do not WANT to do it but I resent that because I am native I must do things for no exchange, down to the work I do for people on their roofs. All of us need to survive and arrogance is built on the 11th moon which is attitude of gratitude. Why should anyone work endlessly for nothing for another? Our teacher did not post the copyright. She does NOT sell ceremonies. And what she DOES charge for, is not wrong.
Yes, your people could have learned much.
Weni'tase

Re: If I may...
And I know of many traditionalists who have taught over the net, 4 including my teacher.  Of course there are some things that can not be taught over the net.
It is almost like driving a car. It is a different way to get from here to there as opposed to a horse and buggy. And the internet is another way to teach tradition, healing, and deaming.
Weni'tase

Re: If I may...
My own words quoted: I understand this...but I too was under the impression that to ask for money for such teaching...was also forbidden...

There has always been barter. It was not only with teachers but for all who received something in a community. A roof fixer, a basket maker.
Our teacher tried barter in other ways. So did her teachers. Sometimes it worked but rarely. Promises broken often and usually every time. Our Shaman works/worked very hard and if you read in files, you will see that.
It is a trade. Exchange. This for that. Pure and simple. And unfortunately, money is the only thing that works right now. Shamanism is about survival and our teacher needs to survive also.
And money is energy also. It is again how things change, something that shamanism is about. How do we survive today? Much of the teachings of "shamanism" have been lost.
We all have jobs and hers is just as important as our are ............
She gives us all much time. She really does work for us. The results show. In how many of us feel, behave. It is individual work to us, of herself, her time and energy to walk in our dreams and through our lessons for what we need.
And to not replenish is to be disrespectful. To steal.
I do not take offense and please continue to ask questions.
Weni'tase

When asking about teaching Shamanism over the net....

Re: If I may...
Do not worry!
Our Shaman prefers in person.
But she realizes that many need or want it and can not get in person.
There are some teachings they can not receive over the net and some she will not give in person (forbidden).
She often quotes a mystic (Meister Eckhart?) who said something about a tool connecting us all (other than the dreaming  ) and that could be the internet. Who knows! But I know she looks at the computer as a tool to reach people. Sometimes a not helpful tool and sometimes a helpful tool.
It is amazing to see what can be accomplished over the net. I hope for Rachel and Joanna (some students) to speak about this.
Weni'tase

After this...it seems they moved...or closed down...I asked alot of questions...and many they didnt have answers for...but the Seneca nation hasnt heard of them at all...nada...nothing doing....so its in their hands now.

[educatedindian]

They certainly talk very Nuage.

Exploiters' groups on yahoo often will make their groups private once they start getting criticism, or even questions they don't want to answer. The group probably continues, but is now closed to anyone except compliant non questioning older members.