Acadian Metis ?

[Moma_porcupine]

I will try and pick out some of your main points and show why i think you are publishing a lot of misinformation, but as you have completely flooded this topic with incorrect and often contradictory claims it's not easy ....

Starting with this as one of the more obvious imaginary facts you cited ..

In 1763, the Treaty of Paris ended the war between France and Great Britain, and most of the land that France had claimed was transferred to Great Britain, whereupon all the people who were of French ancestry went back to France or to territory held by France (nominally held). The French left! There was no reason for French people to be on British territory. People of mixed French ancestry, on the other hand, could not return to France since they did not originate there, they remained in the Maritimes and in parts of New England.

These are historical facts. Though priests who were French did remain, and nuns, but they had no progeny at all.

No these aren't historical facts. This is a fiction based on a your personal interpretation of a few selected historical facts.

I know Wikipeddia isn't the best source, but most the information in this article seems to be a good summery and from other accounts I have read the basic facts esential to the point I want to make seem well documented....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Upheaval

Deportation

Approximately 7,000 Acadian were deported during 1755. The deportees were held on prison ships for several weeks before being moved to their destinations, leading to the deaths of hundreds. An estimated 2,700 deportees died before reaching their destination. An additional 10,000 are estimated to have died from displacement during the winter of 1755–1756. There were approximately 23,000 Acadians before the deportation according to provincial records, but based on British records, only an estimated 10,000 survived. Approximately 5,000 to 6,000 Acadians escaped to Quebec, hid among the Mi'kmaq, or were able to hide in the countryside and avoid deportation until the situation settled down. [8]

Obviously attempting to capture and deport 23,000 Acadians who lived all over Nova Scotia and what is now New Brunswick, in widely dispersed farming communities surrounded by wildreness would not manage to round up all the people. Many ran away and how much Native blood they had did not have anything to do with this, or with who was caught and deported.
These people who were deported , who didn't die , were mostly dumped off in the United States where they faced a lot of problems surviving. The US was not French territory.  Only a small minority were returned to France. Some made a new home in the US, but many returned to Acadia.

If your claim was true, and only mixed blood Acadians were not deported, once people were captured their family histories would have to be carefully examined, and those with Native blood released.

This obviously didn't happen...

Perhaps some French moved into what was to become the USA, but that's not what we're addressing here

Actually that is where most of these displaced people were dumped and it is relevent here, as many French Acadians are reported to have made their way back to NS . Of course they would. Many last saw their wives, children , parents , brothers or sisters in NS . Of course people returned hoping to reconnect with their families. Your ideas that only the Acadians with Native blood remained and everyone without a CDIB card was neatly packed up and sent back to France is just silly.

The Acadians, who had wanted to remain neutral in the war between the French and British, were never trusted by the British because of their Indigenous ancestry.That's why they were deported, or moved south for awhile,

No, the French were never trusted because they refused to swear alligence to the british crown. I seem to recall the sticking point was that they refused to take up arms against other frenchmen. 

though most did eventually return,

Oh now you are even contradicting your earlier claims that all the mainly French Acadians were deported and had no reason to return  ....

only to find that new settlers brought in by the British were now occupying not only their land, but their houses, save a very few who took loyalty oaths to the British.

 
i thought you believed the problem was the british didn't trust the Acadians who had indigenous blood , then you said only the Acadians with indigenous blood remained , and now you are claiming ( correctly ) the problem was that the Acadians refused to take loyalty oaths. Obviously everything you claim isn't true. Are you just making this up as you go along saying whatever you think might confuse people into thinking Acadians wern't a group of mainly french colonists?
 
Some French families did recieve help from the Mi'kmaq, and some of the families who recieved help were undoubtably related to some of the Mi'kmaq through blood or marriage. But having a brother sister aunt or uncle with marital ties to the Native community does not necessarily mean a blood relationship. Even if a person is an Acadian who descends from someone who was alive in 1755 - 1769  -and thois ancestor who was alive in 1755 had a grandparent or great grandparent parent who was Native ,  would not mean that this Acadian person living today would have any substantial Native descent ...     

A good example of an Acadian family that did hide out with Mi'kmaq relatives, and which lived in an isolated area and managed to retain a substantial amount of Native blood , can be found in the family background of Jasen Benwa .

http://www.jasenbenwah.ca/genpage_edeme_joseph.htm

http://jasenbenwah.tripod.com/genpage.htm

http://www.jasenbenwah.ca/genpage_marie_therese.html

All the Native blood that came into the family, did so a long long time ago through 4, possibly 5 ancestors who through intermarriage in a small isolated community repeatedly became Jasen's 11 times gr grandparents, 10 times great grandparents , 9 times great grandparents , 8 times great grandparents and one 7 times great grandparent. These distant ancestors were Mi'kmaq or Montagnais. Jasen also descends from one 5 times great grandmother who was Mi'kmaq and she is in his family tree in 2 places. As descendants from these families lived in a small community and tended to intermarry they retained a larger percentage of Native blood than is usual for people after 8 to 15 generations of out marriage. 

Looking at this, and doing the math it looks like Jasen Benwah's Mom is at most 3 /32 of Native descent and Jasen Benwah's Dad is at most 1/16. In calculating this I always rounded up to the higher figure when the fractions became too small to figure out, and when there was any evidence a person was likely to be of Native descent, I assumed they were.

In the mid to late 1700's the family of Germain Lejeune who occupies a predominate place in this family tree , were recorded as Mi'kmaq in a marriage record. Many other records and now DNA show this family was almost entirely French.

The mother of the Lejeune groom had one grandmother, the wife of Philip Muise, who was Mi'kmaq.  ( Jasen descends from this Muise line, but no one in his family tree descends from this more recent recorded French / Mi'kmaq marriage  in the 1700's ) .  More on the situation this mainly Acadian family found itself in can be read through the link below.

http://deja-vu.ca/Joseph_Martine_Story_1.htm

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?lejeune::1013.html

Over the past 250 years the Native blood in Jasen's community was carried by Acadians with the surnames like Lejeune, Benoit, Jesso, Hache- Gallant, and Marshe.

In the links below there is Church records , census records and specific family histories . Although there is records which record some people as being Indian in this community , these people did not marry into Jasen's family, and as far as I can see, none of Jasen's slightly mixed blood ancestors in 1850- 1900 were recorded there as being Indian.

http://nl.canadagenweb.org/wcbstg_marr_sprc1.htm

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/wcbstg.htm

The general Acadian population probably has varying degrees of Native descent , and this community probably has a lot more reason than most Acadian communities to claim itself as Metis, in yet even then, the evidence is that these were mainly French families with a relatively small amount of distant Native ancestry. Maybe this small pocket of intermarried people is right in claiming to be Acadian Metis, but this isolated Acadian community is not the norm. 

On the other end of the spectrum is people who try and claim sovreighnty for all French Canadians and appear to just make stuff up to justify this...

This webpage linked to below has probably been moved or removed, but here is a sample of some of the fake facts being created by this person Nighthawk  ... The author of this is Simon Raven who is Nighthawks partner. He is or was the owner of a website recaimationinfo which claims to be dedicated to the reclaimation of indigenous rights.

http://wabanaki.kisikew.org/mikmaq/natigostec.html

From Sovereignty to Servitude ~ Reclaiming Indigenous Rights

COTE - COTY - CODY - COSTE
of Turtle Island ("Canada", "North America")

The first person in North America to be given the surname Côté was Jean Côté (Jehan dit Coste).
 

(edited because last time I quoted Nighthawks genealogical misinformation I was informed it was her intellectual property ... With her permission I would requote this entire article if she feels what I am quoting presents her work in a way that is unfairly out of context. Which is why I usually quote things  )
 

His ancestors were the Original people of Anticosti Island.

(edit)

Natigostec (Mi'kmaq) meaning "forward land".

(edit)

Jehan of Natigostec (his Original name is unknown) was either kidnaped, (edit) or perhaps he had been left an orphan, after his family had been slaughtered by the invaders. He is believed to have been a very young child at the time, his birth date is thought to be about 1603.

(edit)

He was put on a ship to be sent to France,

(edit)

His education in France seems to have included being named Jean or Jehan Côté dit Coste. No record of any baptism has ever been found,

(edit)

he was permitted to return to North America, his homeland.

edit

He was returned to the Île d'Orléans where the Jesuits were administering a colony from c. 1625 for Huron "orphans" and other newly enculturated Original people

.
(edit)

On 11 November 1635 he was married to Anne Martin, who was the sister of Abraham Martin, for whom the Plains of Abraham were named. The couple were permitted to settle on the Île d'Orléans,

(edit)

Their descendants have spread to the four quarters of Turtle Island. Jehan of Nantigostec, Mi'kmaq, and Anne Martin (Matchonon), who was Huron-Wyandot, are the ancestors of many people who consider themselves to be French in Canada to this day, due primarily to the act of forced enculturation, cultural genocide, and assimilation by destruction of Original rights and birthrights by the Empires of Europe.

It is time for the Reclamation of Indigenous Rights to begin. In 2007, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was adopted by the world; only four countries voted against the Declaration, Canada, the USA, Australia, and New Zealand.

The Reclamation must begin with each individual recognising and affirming who and what they are as Original people of Turtle Island; as is written, "you don't know where you're going unless you know from whence you came."

(version français - traducteur Simon Raven)

I quoted some of your claims in reply # 7 in the NAFPS thread below, discussing who is an NDN , in order to refute them and you told me the misinformation you were publishing about the ancestors of thousands of other people was copyrighted ... 

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1871.0

How can people point out ideas that aren't supported by any evidence without quoting what they are refering to?

http://www.reclamationinfo.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61

Posted: Mon Jun 16,  Re: "Dit" Names - FN family, the Conspiracy against My People     
Nighthawk

According to the Jesuit Relations, the name Martin replaced the Huron name Matchonon: "On the 3rd of November of the same year [1635-36?], Father Charles l'Allemant baptized a young Savage about twenty-five years old, called by the people of his nation Matchonon, surnamed by the French, Martin; at baptism he received the name of Joseph." (Reference, the Jesuit Relations)

Simon is a descendant of Anne Martin/Matchonon who was the sister of Abraham, and Huron-Wyandot.

None of the claims above refer to any supporting documentation except this one reference to someone with the name Matchonon being baptised with the name Martin. It would be fair to say you were wondering if the family of Abraham martin might have any connection to this man baptised with the same name, but there is no reason I can see to even guess it is likely any connection existed. Thats like thinking evryone named Smith must be related to a Native family in the same town with the same name .

I already posted links to what I believe is more accurate information on the origins of this family, but to make sure the information is presented together i am reposting them below;

http://www.geocities.com/weallcamefromsomewhere/Kebec/anne_martin.html

(edited to add - Most genealogists say they aren't sure how Ann Martin was related to Abraham Martin , and there is various theories out there.as this website does not explain it's sources it's hard to know if the information is entirely correct )

In reply #7 I also added the Y DNA results showing 3 French Canadians descended from Cote have European patrilineal DNA. Assuming these people descend from Jean Cote - and Nighthawk has claimed he is the patrilineal ancestor of all or most Cotes in North America , this probably proves beyond all doubt that Jean Cote father was not indigenous.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/French-Canadian%20Heritage%20DNA%20Project/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on

Cote    J2
Cote    J2                                                                           
Cote    J2

So now i see nighthawk has spun a new story that fits better with the facts ...

http://genforum.genealogy.com/canada/messages/82720.html

MARTIN and COTE' dit COSTE', Ile d'Orleans, 1600s, "New France"
Posted by: L. A. Childress (ID *****2250)    Date: July 11, 2008 at 00:03:37
     of 87810

Jean or Jehan COTE'[1] dit COSTE' and Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON**, a Wyandott
(Huron-Wendat) woman****, are the ancestors of almost all people with the
surname COTE, COSTE, COSTA, COTY, CODY (and many other variants) in "North
America" today, they are estimated to have 50,000 to 100,000 living
descendants. Was Mathieu da/de COSTE', the first African known to have
lived in "Canada", the father of Jean/Jehan COTE' dit COSTE'?

This theory at least does have some supporting evidence ...A similar surname and a child of Jean Cote with a name suggesting he had frizzy hair ...... Asking a question about this seems fair ....However many genealogists have said they think a French Cote' family was related to Abraham Martin . So it is hard to say if there was a connection or what that was....

 But then there is more statements where speculation is reported as fact

He was married to a Huron woman 11 Nov 1635, Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON, and the couple were among the first families established in the colony set up by the Jesuits for their Huron-Wendat converts on the Ile d'Orleans.

(continues...)

Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON however, might have been a half-breed with some European ancestry; she was the daughter of Abraham MARTIN dit l'ECOSSAIS, so this might be why their descendants were recorded. Also they were part of the colony established on the Ile d'Orleans by the Jesuits for their Huron converts. She would have been considered Huron-Wendat by her own people, not half-breed, since the Wyandott are maternal lineal.

So here Nighthawk is claiming Anne Martin is Abraham Martin's daughter instead of his sister... Which is what she said in posts just a few weeks before. It seems she really doesn't know and is just making this up as she goes along .

While there probably was a convent on the Ile d'Orleans, from what I read there was also numourous french colonsts who recieved land grants. It is said to be one of the first places colonists settled. Other genealogists simply report Jean Cote' was one of these regular french settlers.

Nighthawk, is there any actual records which say Jean Cote arrived on Ile d'Orleans as an indiginous person associated with the convent or are you just making this up because it's one of many possiblities, and you like the idea ? Is there any records that Ann Martin or her mother was Huron - or is this just you guessing what may have happened and presenting this as a fact? If this information is incorrect, you are encouraging thousands of French people to intrude into indigenous sovriehnty and claim this for themselves on the basis of incorrect information.

There are people who feel this is a problem - such as the allegations below.

http://mohawknationnews.com/news/singlenews.php?lang=en&layout=mnn&category=0&newsnr=703.

In another swindle the Congress of Aboriginal People CAP Patrick Brazeau is signing up enough settlers to become “Metis” to outnumber the real Indigenous. Some native people are being roped into this confidence game. In a recent Kanehsatake Mohawk election, Mother Joan signed up hundreds of secret non-Indians who voted by proxy to put in the colonial nominee as chief. Prime Minister Stephen Harper appointed Brazeau to “sleep it off” in the Senate as a reward for setting up this CAP scam.

Nighthawk

All there ever were historically were Peace and Friendship treaties. The Wabanaki peoples never ceded their land, not one grain of sand of it. The British more or less ignored this reality and have been pretending it was their land, but seem to be waking up to the fact that they forgot to "buy" the land or even have obtained rights to have a colonial government on the land. The Canadian parliament sits on unceded Anishinaabek (Algonquin) land, for instance.

Ahh...well ..how very convinent to discover most Canadians with families who have been in the area for a few generations probably have a drop of native blood back there somewhere...

They forgot to get legal title but thanks to people like you declaring people with a drop of blood are all Metis AKA indigenous now they can claim they are the title holders anyways...

All the colonists need to do is declare themselves Metis and consult with themselves...

Nighthawk

they are "squatters".

according to people like you if any of them have a drop of blood they are "indigenous" 

Nighthawk

Hence all the creation of "nogonquins" (nominal time-lapse Algonquins with no or little ancestry), "nohawks" (fake Mohawks), and what have you.

Interesting. It looks to me like your invention of indigenous genealogies and insistence people with a small amount of Native blood like the Acadians are aboriginal people with a right to claim their sovriegnty is doing exactly the same thing ...

Nighthawk

I think that NAFPS should maybe stick to people who are frauds, predators, and those who actually are hurting someone, rather than getting involved in genealogy, historical and geopolitical issues debates, and worse, seemingly trying to dictate who can and who can't be part of a Nation, which is for the peoples themselves to ultimately decide.

And leave misinformation unchallenged? Why?

There's a distribution map here:

http://www.abo-peoples.org/CAP/About/Custom_Maps.html#4

that shows Metis east of where I would have considered them to be, in the Maritimes and in Quebec.

Right. Put out by CAP - which you yourself accuse of inventing indigenous people to displace the soverinty of real indigenous peoples......

Seems to me people like you are very much a part of the problem.

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;
As a Metis person, living in a Saskatchewan Metis community, I certainly do not have an understanding of the issues of mixed blooded people, from the east coast, so do not feel able to make judgements about them.

As to the Congress of Aboriginal People, they came out in support of the present government, during the last election campaign and, when the election was over, they were able to access some direct funding for thier organization.  I do not know who CAP represents, thier identity criteria or who elects thier leadership.  Any research that I have undertaken has left me with the idea that they are not operating a transparent operation and has left many people with questions about them. 

The Canadian government has, over many years, worked hard to eradicate Aboriginal peoples, in many ways.  I can see that C31 Status has an expiry date and is being discussed by First Nation groups as it may be another attempt at "extinguishment" of our Rights and Cultures.

These are just some of my thoughts.
Ric

[Defend the Sacred]

Race is an artificial construct imposed by the British in North America, for the most part.

"Race" is a social construct, yes. But as long as a social construct is being used to bash people over the head, we have to name it for what it is.

The idea of "white" as a "race", rather than a bunch of people of diverse ethnicities who may share nothing but a degree of melanin deprivation, is a construct that has been used in many countries to oppress others. It's not just a North American thing. See South Africa, for one, or the belief in eugenics propagated by the Nazis. Or even how the English considered the Irish "black".*

It's more realistic and egalitarian to recognize what ethinicities "white" people actually come from, and for "white" people to be in touch with their own cultural roots. But the problem we're finding in America, and now increasingly in Europe, is that Euro-whatever people have lost touch with their roots, and many only identify with the social construct of "white" and the ugly, superficial, consumerist, mainstream "culture" that has been growing in America and infecting the rest of the world.

As a social construct, "white" and "black" are categories used to further white supremacy and oppress people of color. But as long as there are social, political and economic benefits that come from identifying as part of that construct, people are going to do it. And they will have an investment in maintaining that structure.

The discussion of how to fight and dismantle that structure is too complicated for one (already long and partially off-topic) post. But I wanted to say something because, while many of us may be committed to questioning and reframing, even eliminating, the oversimplified and oppressive categories of "black" and "white", it doesn't fight racism in the here and now to just pretend those categories don't still exist in the minds of the vast majority of people.

Additionally, people who frame things in terms of a black/white dichotomy tend to make ethnicities besides European and African-American invisible. The lives and realities of NDN people tend to fall through the cracks of that construct.

More on-topic: As Rattle and Moma have stressed, and as most everyone on here has said repeatedly, it's about culture, not BQ.

Nighthawk, I get the impression that you think mixed (yes, I'm going to say it) -race people should identify as only one culture or another. In reality, it's often more complex. Unless people grew up completely immersed in only one part of their heritage, people with diverse ancestry often have a degree of interest in, and identification with, multiple parts of their heritage. I don't see people trying to ignore the one NDN ancestor, but it seems silly to say one ancestor defines someone more than all the others, and all the cultural inputs and social constructs that have shaped a person's family and identity in the many intervening generations.

Starting over with a radical self-redefinition is starkly different from growing up in a particular ethnic community. Talk about artificial constructs...

I'm just repeating myself here, and repeating what others have already explained quite well. But I find some of what you're saying, Nighthawk, to be surreal and too theoretical, especially when compared to the real lives, needs, and apparent motivations of the people in question.

* Not the same as the physical appearance of  the "Black Irish", but an ethnic slur that was used by the English against all Irish, no matter their hair and eye color. We were also called "White Ni---rs". BTW, "British" is a political and social construct that some of us find offensive :-) Just sayin'.

[Don Naconna]

Ric is correct, these people are not Metis who are a distinct people, with a language, history and traditions. The Metis are NOT simply mixed bloods they have established communities, recognised historically by Europeans and aboriginals.There are illions of Canadians and Quebecois families with distant aboriginal and Inuit blood, but that hardly makes them aboriginal or Metis. Americans seem to mix up Metis which mean "mixed" in French and "Mestizo" which means mixed in Spanish. In fact the majority of Mexicans and Central Americans are Mestizos, but few consider themselves to be indigenous.
Louis  Riel is one of the most misunderstood figures in our history. He was a visionary, political leader capable of organising the Metis people into a government. This was when the Metis were the majority in the NW (Manitoba, Saskatcehwan and Alberta). He saved the French language in the west and Catholic education. Although he was also the victim of Anglo racism and was hung for his "crimes", he was a "father of confederation" because like all the other "fathers" he was responsible for bringing Manitoba into Canada.
These groups pray on ignorance and peoples' desire to identify with being indigenous...

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;
Thank you, Don!  In Western Canada, we also have "Louis Riel Day" on Nov. 16 each year, when we continue to Honour Riel's contribution to our people, on the anniversary of the day that he was hanged.  On June 21 each year, we celebrate "National Aboriginal Day," as well,and Metis people are included with First Nations in Honouring Aboriginal peoples, across the country.  In our region, every Aboriginal Day has celebrations at the Flying Dust First Nation and the organizers always ensure that the Metis Flag is raised, along with the other flags.

Ric

[Don Naconna]

Ric,
Having lived in  the US for many years, I can say that the vast majority of Americans have no concept of anyone's history except their own. So it doesn't surprise me that they don't know anything about Canadian history. That allows people to take the word "Metis" and to create their own definition. When I went to that "metis" site and saw how they define "Metis" as any mixed blood regardless tribe or degree of Metis blood. They probably have members who belong to other tribes like the "Moundbuilders" and the "Binay". Metis are a Canadian aboriginal ethnic groups and recognised as such. The Acadians are a different matter, yes there was mixing with the French "habitants" in Nova Scotia, as in the rest of Canada, however those mixed bloods didn't establish a distinct aboriginal culture, nor did the mixed bloods in Quebec, and almost all Quebecoise families have some distant aboriginal blood, my wife is Quebecoise. Their culture is francophone, their religion is Roman Catholic. They may have aboriginal blood but few consider themselves to be aboriginal.
In Canada, the words "Metis", means being part of a historical community, with language and traditions.

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi Don and Ric

Thanks for your input,

I've been doing a lot of google searching and from what I read it seems the main problem is that in 1982 the canadian government rewrote the constitution and recognized the Metis as Aboriginal people - without making it clear which mixed blood people might be rightly considered Metis and members of a rights bearing Metis community...

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html#II

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3f7827a1-d524-4c56-a6f4-d86bb1aada68

Maybe I'm ruffling some feathers
By The Ottawa CitizenAugust 3, 2007

( Begins with info about CAP ...)

According to the 2001 Census (the last year for which we have figures) there are 967,305 people in Canada who identify themselves as aboriginal. While two-in-three of these people are First Nations Indians, nearly one third are M?tis, the fastest growing aboriginal group in the country, and one which has little legal standing in Canada.

"There are no rules to determine if someone is M?tis," says Fred Caron, the assistant deputy minister for the Federal Interlocutor. (Created in 1985, the Federal Interlocutor is always the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, with the mandate to act as "point of contact" between the government and aboriginal Canadians living off reserve.)

"M?tis are recognized in the Constitution as one of Canada's aboriginal peoples, but it is not an easy thing to define," Mr. Caron continues. (continues...)

Why would the canadian government write up a legally binding document that gives a partially identified ?someone? entitlement to resources , but to write this in such a way so it wasn't clear who exactly the owner is? It seems the lawyers should have realized this was setting the stage for some problems... but maybe there was a good reason this couldn't be fully defined at the time ... ? 

It sounds like canadian courts are still in the process of defining this..

http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ai/ofi/mns/pwy-eng.asp

Does the Powley decision include a legal definition of Métis?

No, although the Powley decision does provide guidance on who can claim Aboriginal rights under section 35. According to the decision, the term "Métis" refers to distinctive peoples of mixed ancestry who developed their own customs, practices, traditions and recognizable group identities separate from their Indian, Inuit and European ancestors. The term "Métis" does not refer to all individuals of mixed Aboriginal and European ancestry.

I guess the problem is, for people who really want to stretch this definition to include themselves,  10 people and a dog could be said to be a community, any small town can claim to have a history and culture which is distinct from another small town 20 miles down the road, and any community that was organized enough to erect a community center or a fire hall could claim to have a degree of self government ...and if one of the first families in one of these communities descended from Pocahontas, and this family intermarried with the other families,  I guess this community could try to claim they are a rights bearing Metis community. And as the definition of a Metis person depends on them coming from a Metis community, and a Metis community could be any community of slightly mixed blood people that says they are Metis, there is no real independant criteria and the interdependent definitions about who is Metis and what is a real Metis community , just go around in circles.

I think the key is probably something both Ric and Don have repeatedly pointed out. The communities that have rights as Metis were repeatedly recognized as a Metis community many times through history. As a general population these communities of people were not invisible, and in fact there is often well documented discrimination that targeted these communities specifically for being of largely non native origins ( Metis.)

Of course, stretching the recognition of the Metis as Aboriginal Peoples to include much of the general non-native candian population which has some slight distant Native descent , would be contrary to the whole purpose of recognizing Metis communities as having some rights as Aboriginal peoples whch are different than the general non native canadian population....

Gee I wonder who would benifit from that ?

Sorry if I sound unfairly sarcastic to some people who may have a legitimate claim....

I think I am begining to have a problem with the internet version of road rage when it comes to wannabes and their convoluted logic...

Arrrggg ... Maybe time for a breather..

Oh... and I was too overwhelmed to reply to everything Nighthawk wrote. Quite a lot of what was said was about what DNA tests can and cannot show. There is a thread discussing that below ....

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1375.0

And I don't agree with reasons Nighthawk dismissed the testimonies given by the people at Belle- Ile-en- Mer in Reply #19. These people descend from the exact same ancestors as other Acadians, and if the descendents ended up in different places , their grandparents and great grandparents were still the same people. Over the years lots of records that were misplaced in the British take over have been found, and these records which were not available at the time, mostly support the information provided by these tesitimonies. There is quite a lot of evidence that with the exception of a few errors and some omitted information, these tesitimonies as to Acadian origins are largely correct, and the large majority of Acadian women who left Acadian descendents came from France. 

[Don Naconna]

Thank you for this information. Canada has had the paternalistic Indian Act on the books for almost a century as far as I know.t It is archaic and treats aboriginal people as "wards of the state" which allow for the cultural genocide of residential schools, disenrollment of aboriginal women who married non Indians and the "60's scoop" (taking children from their homes and placing them with white families).
Aboriginal people were even restricted from starting on reserve businesses, making them dependant on welfare, hunting and fishing.
Now the majority of aboriginal people live off reserves in urban centres where they have few social services, such as alcohol and drug rehab, employment training and education. While some aboriginal people in cities have been able to find employment, get higher education, housing etc, most have not.
I believe that as a social democracy Canada has failed to provide the tools for aboriginal people to become self sufficient. As many reserves are very isolated, economic development is really impossible. You can get jobs if you have to fly in to the reserves. Other reserves have developed natural resources, oil, natural gas, mineral (in the Arctic Inuit are very involved in diamond mining and insuring that environmental failsafes are in place). But that doesn't help the vast majority of aboriginal and Metis people.
Most Metis are farmer/ranchers and their communities have faired better because they are less isolated. Issues such as housing and healthcare have really not been addressed by the Conservative government. All provinces and treaty bands, as well non ststus organisations agreed to the Kelowna Accords that would see a transfer of $5 billion directly to bands and reserves. However the government has refused to pay. Therefore the paternalism continues.
The real issues facing are political, and until aboriginal people become as politically involved as other ethnic groups they will contiue to be shut out of the process. Interestingly, when I raised the issue in a Canadian aboriginal group "Crazy Eagle" who claims to be Miqmaq attacked me for posting information about aboriginal candidates. 4 of our 5 parties support the Kelowna Accords if those parties or coalitions of those parties support a new legislation there will be no change the staus quo will continue and the aboriginal population will have little hope getting out of poverty.

[Moma_porcupine]

Reply #9
apukjij

We have also fought hard and long for the two National Aboriginal Caucus associations, the Native Council of Nova Scotia and the Native Council of New Brunswick. i suggest very strongly that Ms Swan and the Bras D'or Lakes metis to join such a council. because in the Tri-Partite negotiations involving Treaty Beneficiaries and the rights they have with the Feds and the Province; the Native Council of NS and NB are the only metis organizations that are sitting at the negotiation tables in the Maritimes and they are already serving the people very well.

http://ncns.ca/about/our-vision/

The Native Council of Nova Scotia is an active affiliate of our national organization the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples (CAP)

I have been continuing to wonder about this.

This has been discussed further starting in Reply #32 by Apukjij
in the first link below ..

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2456.30

The original topic in the link above was a misunderstanding, once this was sorted out the thread got split into a new discussion on Treaty Indians, First Nations, Descendants, in the second link below ...

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2459.0

A lot of what is being discussed in these threads connects in some ways to this one.

[NDN_Outlaw]

The Congress of Aboriginal People (CAP) is a totally bogus organization. It has been more than 40 years since the Assembly of First Nations AFN) and it's predessor the National Indian Brotherhood (NIB) have officially represented Canadian status Indians. The AFN is composed of elected Chiefs representing all First Nations (reservations) in Canada.AFN has been recognized as the official voice of Canadian Indians by the Canadian Government since the founding of the NIB decades ago. CAP has no clear mandate nor membership. The current Harper Government is very hostile to Aboriginal rights. The creation of CAP was encouraged and funded by the Harper government who chose to recognize CAP as a representative of Canadian NDNs. A comparable situation would be if the Congress of American Indians became too hard a nut for the American Government to crack. Then imagine the out rage if the US government recognized coddled and funded US NDNs who for whatever reason had it in for the elected NDN leadership. This is what is happening in Canada now. Most anyone with a grudge against an elected chief can join CAP. People with dubious claims to leadership such as self proclaimed Traditional Chiefs can readily find a place at CAPs table. The Harper NDNs, are pampered and well groomed. They say what the government wants them to say but they are not the real full meal deal the AFN is.

[Superdog]

It seems John's still back to his old tricks.  Doing the same thing he's been doing all along.  Lotta big claims about being an "expert" and "hereditary claim" as chief of all the Wabanaki tribes.  He'll never change.  Just posting this to keep him on the radar.  He never gets anywhere with all his claims of awesomeness and expertise. In fact, every court case he ever testified in...he lost...this one will be no different.  His skewed versions of history are comical at best and these days he's pretty much laughed at by everyone (although if you ask him he'll claim to speak for thousands, but you can see by the traffic on this fb page...that's bogus too).  Just a warning.  The inclusion of his name in the thread will more than likely generate a predictable rant from John here or elsewhere damning the page (possibly claiming we're working for the CIA....not a joke there, he really believes he's that important).  So get yer popcorn ready.

https://www.facebook.com/treaty1663

Superdog

[jpwade]

AND .... More on Nancy Swan Cape at the Breton Post, Published on September 12, 2013 , who is now with Bras d'Or Indian Village Association....

"Bras d'Or Indian Village Association held a community meeting on Thursday to discuss the next step in their efforts to establish band status.

The latest development in these efforts came recently when a lawyer was hired who is known for helping the Qalipu Mi’kmaq First Nation in its efforts to achieve recognition as a band.

“He came to meet with us,” said Nancy Swan, chief of the Bras d’Or Indian Village, about what the group feels is a significant step.

“He knows our case because the people of Newfoundland are tracing to Little Bras d’Or.”

Cultural advisor Vaughan_Doucette [Eskisoni] , council member Jerry Gerrior and Andre Lejeune-Desjardins are shown drumming during Thursday's meeting for the Bras d'Or Indian Village Association. In back is Nancy Swan, chief of the Bras d'Or Indian Village Association, holding a copy of a land grant which the association believes will be important in efforts to achieve recognition as a band.

**** NOTE WITH NANCY'S DREAM TEAM LAWYER WHAT OCCURRED IN NEWFOUNDLAND !!!:

Dec. 2013 - GRAND COUNCIL OF MICMACS MIKMAWEY MAWIO `MI

STATEMENT TO UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ANAYA

Kwe, on behalf of the members of the Sante’ Mawiomi (Mi’kmaq Grand Council) who have traditionally and currently represent the 7 districts of Mi’kmaki, we thank you for your time. The Grand Council of Mi’kmaq, has two specific violations that require your attention.

(1) (CLIP....)

Secondly the federal government creation of the Qalipu Mi’kmaq band in in Ktaqmkuk (now called Newfoundland) that creates potentially 100,000 new status Indians who claim to be of Mi’kmaw heritage, which vastly outnumber the total current population of Mi’kmaq recog-nized in the Atlantic Canada. This unilateral federal action is violations of article 33 of the Declaration that affirms the ability of Indigenous people to determine their own identity and membership.

....

2. The Qalipu in Ktaqmkuk
The second issue of concern for Grand Council is the federal government creating between 60,000-100,000 new band members in the Mi’kmaq Band of Qalipu.

Canada only recog-nizes about 20,000 Mi’kmaq in Atlantic Canada, and the United States about 500 in Maine. While Canada has constitutional responsibilities over “Indians and Land reserved for Indians” they have wrongly interpreted their responsibilities and scope by recognizing Indians as a “Mi’kmaq” band.

Under our Aboriginal and Treaty rights and international human rights, the Grand Council has the jurisdiction and rights to create or recognize any individuals as “Mi’kmaq” in accor-dance with our custom and traditions. The Grand Council has never been consulted by the federal government or the Qalipu Mi’kmaq, during the creation or negotiation of this band.

The Qalipu Band is considered a landless band created by a negotiated settlement that seeks to remedy historical wrongs of Newfoundland; However, their large numbers of new Mi’k-maq is our concern. This concern is not with all Mi’kmaq from Newfoundland, in fact we have had consistently had Keptins representing Newfoundland on the Grand Council for generations. These new Qalipu members we simply do not know and do not recognize as Mi’kmaq.

Canada asserts it can create thousands of new Mi’kmaq while continuing to deny members in our own community the same recognition based on their discriminatory Indian Act. We are puzzled that the discriminatory policies depriving our grandchildren in our communities Indian status based on blood quantum does not apply equally to the new Qalipu band mem-bers.

http://www.eskasoni.ca/uploads/newsletter/Sante-Mawiomi-Statement-to-UN-Special-Rapporteur.pdf

[Sparks]

The preceding post was also posted (misplaced?) in another thread, with a different beginning (bolded here):

Nancy who tells me i am a trouble maker because i address'd her about supporting Leonard Peltier along with James Swan (Russell Means - Republic of the Lakota) needs to get her mind UN-BENT !!!! .... More on Nancy Swan Cape at the Breton Post, Published on September 12, 2013 , who is now with Bras d'Or Indian Village Association....

The cited newspaper article is here: http://www.capebretonpost.com/news/local/band-status-efforts-continue-for-bras-dor-indian-village-5121/

See also: http://www.capebretonpost.com/news/local/bras-dor-indian-village-association-meets-with-legal-representative-5249/

Event also referred to here: http://brasdorindianvillagebandassociation.yolasite.com/bras-dor-indian-village-association-meets-with-le.php

The rest of the preceding post comes from the PDF linked to at the bottom.