I feel somewhat responsible for some of these bad feelings so i guess I should make some attempt to repair any damage I may have created .
First , on the issue of Robin or Weheli's posts being edited by anyone other than themselves .
When someones post is edited , at the bottom it does say it was edited , and who edited it .
Before I joined NAFPS , seeing the posts of some people edited, did make me mistrustful that the moderators might be unfairly tampering with peoples posts , and I watched for a long time to see what it was that was being edited out , and why .
I guess if other people are mistrustful they will need to do the same , and see for themselves , but what i saw was what was being edited out , was people using too many words and side issues to obscure and avoid the questions , ad hominum attacks , name calling and threats .
As I said before , I did see Al edit his own post in the last thread Raven posted in as a regular contributer to NAFPS ( link to this thread ,is in my post above ) What I remeber was Robin was objecting to a comment Al made and Al edited it out . The comment was something about Star deserving as much support as Robin and Al reminding Robin she was also an ex member of the CKY group . Robin objected saying she had joined knowing the group was unhealthy because she wanted to help people in that group get out. Maybe it would have been better if Al had apologized in another post, and left his original comment , as I seem to recall Raven / Robin's objections didn't make much sense after Al edited out that comment . It really didn't seem a big deal to me , but then I wasn't on the other end of this conversation and apperently it was a big deal to Raven and Weheli . Shortly after that ,Weheli and Robin appear to have deleted all their posts from that thread . There was nothing in these deleted posts that I saw , that anyone else would want to delete ,and they are the only other people besides the moderators that could do this , and Al says they didn't ..
It seems this whole situation was really tramatic for Robin and I apologize if I have not been sufficently sympathetic to her feelings of being unsafe.
Robin being interviewed by John Lekay.
When it comes to confronting Al when he is wrong, there is no objectivity there within the group. It is a matter if you read the many posts he makes, you will not find any in the group that will voice or posts anything that might be in disagreement with what he says.
And if one does, the pattern is Moma Porcupine will come in and attack the person, then Al may come in with passiveness,.
I did feel some undertone attacks with Moma Porcupine at times, which I found somewhat puzzling. Because most of the time it was based on unimportant and unrelated issues that were borderline paranoia. Other than Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine there were no others that attacked me, yet no one made any attempts to defend me either.
What Robin said above about me ( NOT AL ) pushing people posting on this board , to clarify themselves , sounds correct .
I can see where both Raven and Weheli may have felt attacked by this , but , I'm thinking maybe Robin/ Raven/Raven_Walkingstick/ Kwakwen and Joyce/Walkingsoft/Weheli are confusing things I have said with what Al/educatedindian said ?
I won't apoplgize for that ,because I still feel all my concerns are valid , but even though I don't always agree with these two , I have appreciated many of the things Raven and Weheli have shared. I have disagreed with everybody posting in this forum from time to time including Al , and when I do I say so , and don't expect anyone to defend me .
Nobody defended me on the subject of selling sweetgrass , even though I can show there are many traditional people who share my feelings . Because I support these traditions as I learned them , I have been called stupid and many other negative things have been implied about me . No one came to defend me , but SO WHAT. It was a good conversation and I'm glad we had it , even if I did feel repeatedly personally attacked for hanging on to what I was taught by Elders . I am not going to play the victim , and I still admire many things about the people who disagreed with me. I'm not going around telling everyone how i was unfairly attacked in NAFPS . People have a right to their own understanding, priorities , concerns , and even blind spots . We all have them sometimes . And I think talking about our different points of veiw is a good thing . People even have a right to be rude sometimes . We all are .
It's true I'm not as nice as Al . I expect difficult things like for people to get their facts straight , be consistant in their concerns , tell the truth and be responsible and accountable for their choices . If people don't meet up with my expectations , I can be a real pain in the ass .
Yup thats me ... But get it clear , as far as I have seen , if anyone "attacked" Robin , or Weheli , it was me , not Al .
The reason I am concerned about contradictions is because I see that as being one of the main reasons a lot of well meaning people don't recognize when someone is an exploiter . There are a lot of people who would respect what Native people want ,but when Native people seem to be giving double messages , people get really confused about who to listen to .
Non native people dabbling in Native traditions mostly come into contact with Native people who are comfortable supporting this ,and they are often unaware of the much larger majority of Native people who feel the power and meaning of these traditions are damaged when they are practiced out of context .
I don't really think this chaos is anyones fault . it is just what happens when traditional ways get mixed with non traditional communities . Situations come up and there is no traditional precedent on how to deal with them and even good people people don't
always agree . But I do think it is important if Native people are telling people what is and isn't exploitation , that they are consistant in their message . Otherwise it comes across as a few Native people who appear to be Spiritual authorities , ( usually only in the eyes of the naive non native community ) saying it's OK for non native people to lead or have a central role in traditional ceremonies , and on the other hand inconsitant unprincipaled harrassment from unreasonable angry Indians. Behavior percieved as unprincipaled harrassment tends to reinforce the misunderstanding that it is just racism that makes traditional leaders want to retain traditional ceremonies within the context of a deeply rooted community . I think these mixed messages really damage what NAFPS is trying to accomplish.
This is why I pressured both Robin and Weheli to clarify their positions expressed in this forum , and it was not intended as an attack" . I'm sorry it was percieved this way .
Al is right when he say's both these people shared a lot of valuable things here , and I am sorry to see that get dragged through the mud of interpersonal misunderstandings .
If I have had a part in this , I apologize .
But as for Lekay who seems like he is looking to promote divisions within Native communities , bad feelings and misunderstandings .
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