Steve McCullough aka Iktomi Sha & Salt Creek Sundance

[Cetan]

Yes there are some traditional chiefs such as Oliver, although there are some on Pine Ridge that do call him a treaty chief. As Ska said many object to the current practice of some who go around "making chiefs"; especially when the person being made a chief is non-LDN.   As far as filing a lawsuit, unfortunately there are no laws against a non LDN running ceremonies or even claiming membership. And most traditional people that I know don't want to work within the US legal systm since that is not our way or our culture. The actions against Ward Churchill were for plagarism, he copied others works and claimed it as his own and the University of Colorado had hired him under affirmative action and when submitting an application you have to sign that under penalty of law your statements are true and can be prosecuted if they are not.

[Moma_porcupine]

What I am noticing reading through all this is that on one hand there is 2 anonymous people claiming there is some Elders who recognize McCullough but these Elders want to remain anonymous,  and on the other hand there a couple people with verifiable connections in the Lakota community saying it isn't OK for non native people to run ceremonies and they have never heard of McCullogh being an exception.  ( I am referrring to Earth and I seem to recall Earth knows Cetan ) There is also a bunch of official statments from LDN leaders and Elders , from the protection proclaimation to the declaration of war , and all these statemetns say nonnative people should not be leading ceremonies .

If someone wants to dispute this, why aren't the Elders that people claim are recognizing these non native ceremony leaders being named ? Steve McCollough is advertising himself as a cermonial leader on line . It seems fair to assume that if the Elders who supposedly recognize Steve are functioning as Elders in relation to Steve , they would be willing to take responsibility and be named on line as references. If they don't want to be named, I think it is fair to assume these Elders either don't exist, or they don't really support Steve having a right to be running ceremonies. Because in the act of remaining unnamed they are clearly NOT supporting this.

Anonymous people telling about personal experiences shouldn't carry a lot of wieght on line ,  and as an anonymous person my own observations aren't worth much,  but I also have seen what Ska reports. I have only known a couple Native people who thought it was OK for non natives to be leading ceremonies. One was disconnected from their own culture and was taught by someone with a reputation of being a complete sell out and their own people avoided them. The other person who thought this was OK was running from the law for mollesting children in their community. I have also heard of some who teach ceremonies in exchange for gifts or money - not out of concern for how these ceremonies will be maintained . On the other hand I have known many many traditional Elders who have clearly expressed disaproval. Like Ska says , Elders give subtle signals. I also have seen Elders be polite to someone and have been suprised later to hear them strongly condem these peoples activities. Seeing an Elder shake someones hand doesn't mean much . You would have to ride home with them to find out what they really thought.     

AMF suggested this is all just a matter of opinion and different Elders have different opinions. It's true there are some Native people who believe it's OK to share these ceremonies outside the context provided by the rest of the culture. But I suspect people involved with non natives get a distorted impression as to how many Native people support this , as they tend to just meet the supporters . These people don't meet the large majority of native people who absolutely object to non native people taking over and running ceremonies . Why are these objections so hard to understand? 

If a choice in who to support needs to be made, I think the solution is simple.  It is the Elders who are thinking of the health of their own communities and culture who should be supported not Native people who are serving non native people

[Cetan]

I saw some people the other day who go out to Elmer Running's every year for his Sundance and they told me 2 or 3 years ago Elmer kicked Steve McCullough off his property so I would doubt that he is running his Sundance under Elmer's altar.

[AskMeFirst]

I understand whats at stake here. I questioned and prayed long and hard before I ever lent my voice to sing. We are all responsible for our own spiritual health and I am not about to sell my soul out for anyone.

I came here in a respectful way, despite someone's comment to the contrary. But respectful or not, I'll be attacked no matter what due to the subject matter. I get it. I understand it. So be it.

But, can anyone here answer me this: Just as Creative Native asked- why, when McCullough danced for 4 days out at Crowdog's beside other dancers, in front of so many chiefs and elders, why did not one person say anything to him about Salt Creek? If there are so many who are against him, why didn't anyone say anything, before or after the dance? Has anyone heard any rumors by now? Are the people talking about it?
I seek answers just like the rest of you, but I can only go by what my own family says.

Anyone?

[Superdog]

I came here in a respectful way, despite someone's comment to the contrary. But respectful or not, I'll be attacked no matter what due to the subject matter. I get it. I understand it. So be it.

But, can anyone here answer me this: Just as Creative Native asked- why, when McCullough danced for 4 days out at Crowdog's beside other dancers, in front of so many chiefs and elders, why did not one person say anything to him about Salt Creek? If there are so many who are against him, why didn't anyone say anything, before or after the dance? Has anyone heard any rumors by now? Are the people talking about it?
I seek answers just like the rest of you, but I can only go by what my own family says.

Anyone?

I'll answer that question with a story.  Reservation life is pretty close knit.  Everyone knows what goes over as ok and what is craziness, but sometimes the craziness is so entertaining you can't help but get in on it.  I have a friend who was born in Rosebud, but when his mother remarried when he was 5 he moved far away from the rez.  Their family travelled back once or twice a year, but that was all my friend ever saw of other Indians or reservation life.  He's full-blooded, but raised outside the rez.  His mother was a little upset about the things that happened to her in Rosebud so she made no effort to bolster his understanding of his heritage.  Well....fast forward. 

My friend's in his forties.  Through his life he's still made some infrequent visits to Rosebud.  Knows a few relatives there and hangs out every once in a while, but doesn't participate in anything, but eating and conversation.  BUT at his HOME off the reservation there is zero population of Indians in his area.  At his home off the rez he wears a buckskin shirt and leggings and dances at every non-Indian pow-wow there is.  He's got respect there because he's full-blooded (not for anything else) so people believe the great romantic stories about his childhood there.  They suck up to him like no other and it's gotten to his head.  On his visits to Rosebud everyone kind of sits back and watches what goes on.   Makes for some great and enteraining stories later on about this guy trying so hard to outdo everyone that it becomes like a show.  They don't say nothin' to him, because from experience you know...there's nothing much you can say to someone like that.  So they let him go.  The reality is, he's often making a fool of himself....he just doesn't know it.

So the last year I knew this guy he finds a woman at the non-Indian pow-wows.  Pretty nice looking, flaming red hair and a completely white buckskin dress with no beadwork whatsoever.  She's infatuated with him and moves in with him after the pow-wow (no joke).  A few months later my friend decides to take her to Rosebud to really seal the deal with her.  While there he presents himself as proudly as possible.  Parades her around, takes her to a few houses.  Well...she's just LOVIN' it....first time she's ever been on a rez although she says she's Choctaw from Ohio.

So there you go....imagine the sight.  My friend, tall dark-skinned full-blooded Indian, long-black hair (in a bit of a hollywood hairstyle, but still lookin' good) with someone 15 years younger than him hangin' off his arm, flamin' red hair, skin brighter than the sunshine and a permagrin.  Something than anyone who lives there looks and just KNOWS what that's all about and starts chucklin' to themselves.  But they're good hosts there and they show them both a good time.

They come back to their home off the rez.  I'm with some friends..one of them a fluent Lakota speaker.  See the happy couple at a conference (he's there to dance again).  Ask about their visit and she blows up with how great it was...and guess what...THEY GAVE HER AN INDIAN NAME THERE.....

Really???  So I brace myself....and with as much excitement and pride as you could ever hear in a voice she tells us the name and my friend's eyes almost start tearing up as he walks off quietly....I say goodbye to the happy couple they go off and she starts tellin 'the next people that stop them about her new Indian name. 

I go to check out my buddy and he's still laughin' in the corner while he watches them head around the room.  He said, "Do you know what her name means?"  They called her "Smelly *****(ummm..we'll just say it's a body part below the waist)"




Hope that helps you understand a little.  Just tryin' to help you from becoming the next "Smelly *****". 

[Defend the Sacred]

But, can anyone here answer me this: Just as Creative Native asked- why, when McCullough danced for 4 days out at Crowdog's beside other dancers, in front of so many chiefs and elders, why did not one person say anything to him about Salt Creek?

Seconding Superdog's comments, here.

Also, letting an outsider be present at a ceremony is a whole other thing than giving them authority to run the ceremony.

And many just aren't confrontational. Especially when it's already been tried. They'll sit back and be amused, or even offended, but not bother talking to the offensive person because they know the person won't change. I've heard that people have confronted Steve before. He knows full well that what he's doing is in opposition to those who care about protecting the ceremonies. So unless someone is really spoiling for a useless fight... Yeah, "Smelly ______"

I've also got to say I don't buy any of these "in front of so many chiefs and elders" claims. *shrugs* I'm a bit more plainspoken than some.

[Cetan]

It was Crow Dog who gave him the medal, well he goes around making lots of non-Natives chiefs, and on Rosebud he doesnt have a whole lot of respect from the local residents.  And elders dont really go up to someone and say anything even if they disapprove of what that person is doing; they may make a general comment but ususally just let someone go on making mistakes, especially if they have been told once.   

[Creative Native]

It was Crow Dog who gave him the medal,

Who told ya that one? Not me.

[Creative Native]

And elders dont really go up to someone and say anything even if they disapprove of what that person is doing; they may make a general comment but ususally just let someone go on making mistakes, especially if they have been told once.   

Don't know what "elders" you're talking about but I've seen with my own eyes elder women go out and throw a shawl around a largly endowed girl in her twenties in a leather halter top while she was dancing and flopping all over the circle. I've seen a white dude show up in the fake buckskin costume pants in a headdress and have veteran elders go over and talk to him and refuse him to dance. I saw Gramma Nellie go over and throw a blanket over a nursing mother in the middle of Big Bats. Don't tell me elders say nothing.

[Cetan]

Someone who was at CrowDogs dance told me it was CrowDog who gave 3 medals - one to Steve McCullough, one to June Bug and one to a 3rd man she didnt know who he was. The person who told me this had traveled out to CrowDog's with some Mexican friends, one of whom had been a "chief" at the Sundance in southern Illinois that is under Leonards crew and a woman from Belgium who was a friend of Steve's and when he showed up there this Belgium woman moved her camp to camp with him and my friend was given the impression thiat she was his girlfriend!!!
As for the more than 20 "chiefs" at CrowDog's, well a lot of them are chiefs that Leonard made and the feeling amongst a lot of people is he has no right making anyone a chief and why is he making non-LDN and even non-Natives chiefs. Some of his so called chiefs include such non-Indians as Mary Thunder's ex-husband Horse and her son. As far as people not saying anything, a lot of people, especially local, do not know who Steve is and what he does. And an example of people politely not saying anything - about 6 years ago in Kyle Oliver Red Cloud put a chiefs bonnet on the intercessor for the Lakota Oyote Sundance which used to be the dance at Frank Fools Crow's and Oliver said as far as he was concerned this is the only Sundance that should be held on Pine Ridge.  Everyone there lined up and shook his hand, even those who previously and afterwards were bad mouthing him and that Sundance.

[MatoSiWin]

I understand whats at stake here. I questioned and prayed long and hard before I ever lent my voice to sing. We are all responsible for our own spiritual health and I am not about to sell my soul out for anyone.

I came here in a respectful way, despite someone's comment to the contrary. But respectful or not, I'll be attacked no matter what due to the subject matter. I get it. I understand it. So be it.

But, can anyone here answer me this: Just as Creative Native asked- why, when McCullough danced for 4 days out at Crowdog's beside other dancers, in front of so many chiefs and elders, why did not one person say anything to him about Salt Creek? If there are so many who are against him, why didn't anyone say anything, before or after the dance? Has anyone heard any rumors by now? Are the people talking about it?
I seek answers just like the rest of you, but I can only go by what my own family says.

Anyone?

One of the reasons no one said anything is because during Sundance, the dancers are focused on their own dance, and if properly focused would hardly even notice/care what anyone else is doing there.  Steve is the least of their concern at that point.  And regardless of whether you're NDN or not, it is wasicu thinking to go around confronting someone, especially at ceremony, or to engage that person in a legal battle over spiritual matters. 
It's more like this... if people are taken in by someone who is misrepresenting themselves, then so what?  They'll get what they deserve.  It's not the NDN communities' responsibility to protect stupid wannabe's from themselves.  It's far too easy in this day and age to verify the validity of someone's claims to be a Lakota elder.  I'm not just referring to Steve, but to anyone who claims to have the authority to hold a Sundance.  So the people who fail to do the research are putting themselves in a position to be taken advantage of and are putting their own spiritual health at risk.  True Lakotas already know who is and who isn't authorized... so the only reason to be adamant about stopping Steve or others like him would be to protect those who are blindly following him.  It's not like he's pulling one over on the Lakota. 
Steve already knows he's wrong for claiming something that isn't his.  What would be the point in confronting him further? 

[pink bear]

to inquire to ask me first . Are you not the one with the book for sale on Steve 's site?

[Creative Native]

This was dead for almost a month then a new member or one with a new name comes and asks this one. Hmmmmm.... Where'd ya get that one from?

[Defend the Sacred]

http://saltcreeksundance.com/ website is offline now.

[pink bear]

yes the site for saltcreek sundance is down but only for a short while the message we recieved was it need redone because of a few problems.