Howard Lawler

[educatedindian]

Andrej, what Howard Lawler sent you was virtually nothing except one long sales pitch. "Don't worry, trust us, buy now, act quickly, space is limited." He did everything but tell you "buy one get one free."

I wonder how anyone could trust someone whose main intention is clearly to make money, and lots of it, while still somehow bizarrely maintaining his intent is spiritual.

I also don't see a single sign that anyone Native, outside of one person who is described as a "shaman", is benefitting. Lawler shows every sign of holding onto every dollar and euro, and giving nothing back.

Regardless of whether or not the people who go there get harmed, or are receiving anything remotely close to actual Native traditions in South America, that "retreat" does not do anything except make white Europeans and Americans feel good for a weekend or a few weeks.

I always wonder this: why do so many white Europeans feel that somehow they just have to become a "shaman"? Why can't you simply learn what Native spiritual beliefs are, and Native ethics?

I've read works by great Jewish authors like Elie Wiesel. But no way would I think that I somehow have to go out and become a rabbi or perform circumcisions. And that's not even mentioning the dangers if someone were to teach me the wrong way to do a circumcision....

A bit part of what we object to is not only when frauds "play Indian" but also when white outsiders feel they have to "play shaman." Is it some misguided messiah complex? Can't you be happy learning to be a good person?

[A.H.]

Thank you all. I read a lot on this forum and also outside it about you and now understand the circumstances that started it a little better.

I entered this forum quite clumsy and also stumbled on this Mr.Leonard that was very quick with insulting and dismissing and also took conversation too much on the "drugs" side - it is not that simple and I wanted to address other things.

I came here because I am wary of new-age frauds but am interested in some of the practices bordering on it...

Regarding that Lawler offer - I decided not to take part of that. I am also not that wealthy - but even if I was...

My thinking was - that despite all this salesmanship that I noticed and also bothered me - they still work together with indigenous people and somehow behind that I sensed sincere aims... Irrationally.

But quite high price seem dubious... If someone offers you lodging, food, attention - it is understandable they charge something - but maybe they demand too much.

I don't want to be too quick with accusations but am very wary. I offered them a chance to answer themselves. You have more rights to judge than I, I guess.

There is a fine line between noble quest and exploatation. I know.

Playing "Indians" or "shaman" was never my goal. I read a lot about ayahuasca and because of my "psychological" needs I saw it as a valuable chance of healing. Not to become a shaman, but to experience competent indigenous healing that I belive has value.  I don't regard this as a quick fix... It sure is quick in timing - but quick as eating an Aspirin and having doctor treat you and afterwards you are healty for some time... I don't want to simplify ayahuasca rituals with saying that, but they are used also exactly for that - for psyhological renewal and cleansing. Surely better than "prozac" or something like that. I hope this is not trivial and not taking it out of context.

After reading some more I realized that your situation is more complex and vulnerable - ofcourse you have the right to fight cultural colonisation. And my inqueries clashed with that a little or a lot.

There are models of interchanging "goods" fairly I guess but internet is really a tricky and manipulative mean of communication...
 
I will just give one in my opinion good example of cross-cultural exchange.

You probably know about all that indian classical music (real India) hype that started in the 60', but it is also totally valid to appreciate it - because it is one of the great world traditions. But there were many rock-star clumsy efforts that trivialized it somehow.

Now years later - totally disconnected from that era I know of a valid indian master tabla teacher that teaches indian rhythmic systems that are one of the most advanced on Earth. This knowledge is valuable to all serious musicians - wether they play piano or drum-set or violin or flute, etc.

What he does and how the western students understand his teachings in a proper and respectful way is that he does not teach you indian instruments if you won't delve into that for years and become master of indian classical music but teaches you logic of composing, dividing, practicing rhythms - gives you a system and knowledge that you can incorporate in your own music or tradition.

And the students don't claim to be indian classical masters or anything but just learn very valuable rhythmic knowledge.

That is sharing specific culture's knowledge with the rest and if someone in the process discovers that he really can and want to delve deeper - the opportunity is there.

Indigenous people have among many other things rich knowledge about plants and some also about specific psychological treatments that can be shared with the nervous civilization. But reciprocal. And not in a form of fake mimicking, but communicating the systems of knowledge and techniques that can be applyed also outside that culture. Probably not as claiming it is real "shamanism" and such - but use similar plants and similar techniques of applying them. That is also why I am wary when I hear such offers - but this is for most of us the only contact we can make with something like that.
 
We all use some inventions that were invented in some other cultures, read philosphy and literature from other countries but we don't claim to BE that culture.

best regards

[A.H.]

A bit part of what we object to is not only when frauds "play Indian" but also when white outsiders feel they have to "play shaman." Is it some misguided messiah complex? Can't you be happy learning to be a good person?

A very good point and one that I thought over many times when I was younger and knew even less what are all those questions bothering me. I don't know much how your culture deals with such thoughts if they occur at all because you have different & probably more balanced social values system? I am now learning how to be a good person for 33 years. And I live a normal life of musician and audio engineer.
But the questions about "what this ALL around me really IS and means" keep coming back and cause physically felt depression. Western system has no real answers. Psychological treatment is still quite primitive and can mostly deal in a very crude way with serious deformations of mind. I've had contact with it in my teenage years when those questions became more disturbing for me. They didnt' know what to do. I was left alone and through reading much western and eastern philosophy found some comfort.

Now, I realize tha I am writing too much about me and this forum is not about "meet the wierdos" - but I guess that such conditions lie beneath many of those new-age enterprises or at least the victims and followers of them. Some are even not harmful, just funny, studpid or meaningless.

When the damage is done to your culture because of that - it is right to fight against it.

I don't know how you operate nowadays - actually you stirred the interest for your culture and current social and political situation. I will research some more.

I know you are surrounded by one of the most powerful and agressive countries in the world. I don't know what actions and possibilities you have to gain back more land and rights.

I don't know how far the integration went. I see you use internet, etc. I don't know what are the wishes and goals of your communities - return to more traditional life or be more fairly incorporated in the western world?

How do those two worlds co-exist in everyday practise? How is the history tought in USA? Do they acknowledge the injustice done to the indigenous or are the colonial explorers still regarded as heroes only? Or do they simply remain silent about that?

Are there any actions to regain at least more substantial part of the land - I guess USA won't go away, current owners won't easyly succumb. I understand that history has been made and that noone would ever want to return let's say: Manhattan...

But what is the situation? Do they still try to impose Christianity while setting up some dubious charity? Do they provide education but mix it with accepting their cultural values?

Do you have to deal mostly with racism or patronizing approach? 

I don't know all that. I will check what I can. 

There are practically no media reports about N.American indigenous nowadays apart from those fake ones (at least not around here where I live). Like you are extinct already.

Some years ago I wanted to hear some authentic N.A. indigenous music (my interest is in different musical traditions of the world apart from being into experimental jazz and have interest in western classical music).

You know how hard it is to find anything authentic and not washed over with cheesy new-age sounds and flutes, etc. ? I finally found some recordings from Smithsonian institute to be able to hear how your old songs & drums actually sound.

So - all this writing is aimed at one thing - fight new-age fraud, but don't disregard something more there might be collectively important to the whole mankind. Now that I know just a little more about your situation I see that your priorities must be on the first front of fighting - especially being surrounded by a culture that is synonymous for greed, kitch, materialism and cultural hegemony... And its president having mouth full of "new-agey" catholic christianity... and not practising its most important moral value: don't kill! And ofcourse not the slightest trace of "christian" forgiveness...

Just for the end: the cure they would give to a seeker without answers here is some anti-depressant drug that makes you sick and dumb. As I read ayahuasca operates on totally different level and without those side-effects. On contrary - it supposedly makes your mind clearer not dumber as those western medicines. If this is so - this is a gift to the world that should be used with proper care but it would be very good if it could be available to everyone who might need it.  And actually it is available "underground" in its "technical" form - ingredients and a recipe - but it is illegal.
And also I don't regard the curanderos' treatment as a sort of invaluable exotic mumbo-jumbo while medicine makes its own way anyway. I belive they know how to use it properly and that is the only reason I seek contact with them. Otherwise I would just get the ingredients and experiment myself - with all the possible risk.   

Seeing broader picture with an aid of entheogens doesn't make you a messiah or shaman - I hope it makes you a better and more balanced human being... 

[bfl]

I know Howard.
I did a two week retreat in the Amazon in 2003. Ayahuasca and huachuma. You all bring up a lot of valid points. But it appears that none of you have ever met him. He is a white man and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. So the question is whether a white man, or woman for that matter, can be involved in peruvian shamanism in a meaningful way. I think about it a lot. I live in Peru about 3 months a year. I see a lot of the questionable type of "vision quest/psychotropic journey tourism happening not just in the Amazon but in Cusco as well. I have to say that compared to most of what I have seen since my 2003 experience, Howard Lawler represents a beacon of respectability and integrity in a vast ocean of charlatans both peruvian and other.
I have a background in traditional Tibetan Buddhism since 1982. That was the perspective I brought with me in 2003.
For what it's worth.
Howard's personal connection to his own practice appears to be genuine. His connection to his teachers and Shamans appears to be genuine. He is extremely knowledgeable and shares that knowledge in an unassuming way.
He is most valuable as an intermediary between cultures, that of the Shaman and that of the Euro/ American.
When we Euro/americans embark on this kind of journey we have  to get rid of a whole lot of preconceived notions while at the same time becoming as informed as possible about the context we are entering into, if we want to have a hope of having some kind of meaningful experience.  Howard Does a lot to prepare people ahead of time long before they ever leave home. I could go on and on about what he does for his clients but suffice it to say that he does not lack in accountability toward them.
In the Amazon location he works with the Yahua and Bora tribes. In the past he has successfully fundraised and procured community boats and a medical outpost for more immediate care of malaria and the like. Many tribes members participate in the ceremonies at no cost to them. I feel that my experience with Howard and his shamans gave me a basic grounding in the language, culture and pespective of modern day Ayahuasca shamanism,  a point of departure for further exploration.

[educatedindian]

I know Howard.
I did a two week retreat in the Amazon in 2003. Ayahuasca and huachuma. You all bring up a lot of valid points.

1. But it appears that none of you have ever met him.

2. He is a white man and will continue to be so for the forseeable future. So the question is whether a white man, or woman for that matter, can be involved in peruvian shamanism in a meaningful way.

3. I think about it a lot. I live in Peru about 3 months a year. I see a lot of the questionable type of "vision quest/psychotropic journey tourism happening not just in the Amazon but in Cusco as well. I have to say that compared to most of what I have seen since my 2003 experience, Howard Lawler represents a beacon of respectability and integrity in a vast ocean of charlatans both peruvian and other.

4. Howard's personal connection to his own practice appears to be genuine. His connection to his teachers and Shamans appears to be genuine. He is extremely knowledgeable and shares that knowledge in an unassuming way.

5. He is most valuable as an intermediary between cultures, that of the Shaman and that of the Euro/ American.

6. In the Amazon location he works with the Yahua and Bora tribes. In the past he has successfully fundraised and procured community boats and a medical outpost for more immediate care of malaria and the like.

7. Many tribes members participate in the ceremonies at no cost to them.

8. I feel that my experience with Howard and his shamans gave me a basic grounding in the language, culture and pespective of modern day Ayahuasca shamanism,  a point of departure for further exploration.

Hope you don't mind, but I added numbers to your words so it would be clear what points you said that I was answering.

1. This is a common excuse or defense used by exploiters, frauds, or those who have commercialized spiritual traditions, which you are repeating. They make the bizarre claim that you have to have met someone to be able to say if they are not what they claim to be.

By that same standard, no one could criticize any con man or anyone who commercialized any spiritual tradition. A Christian couldn't criticize a department store owner who had commercialized Christmas if they had not met them, for example.

2. It tends to be white outsiders who, so used to race being the standard for everything, want to make race the issue, when the real issue is that they are from outside the culture. Their (and your) attempts to appropriate the cultural traditions alter, damage, or even destroy precisely what you claim to find so valuable.

Hasn't it occurred to you that by bringing huge sums of cash into the picture, offering dozens of kinds of allegedly authentic retreats, and advertising not just on the internet but even peddling his services to "reality" television....

...that practice you claim to value has been greatly altered, crassly, and obviously for huge sums of money?

After all, Lawler's response to criticism was nothing more than a big long winded sales pitch? Shouldn't that tell you, money is his biggest concern? Not spiritual traditions.

3. That others are even worse isn't much of an excuse.

4. He may appear so to you. But then how much did you actually know?

Were you raised in the culture of tribes who perform ayahuasca ceremonies? Obviously not, or you would not have paid big money for Lawler.

Actual healers in the Amazon have denounced the commercialism and exploitation of Lawler and others like him.

5. "Shaman" is not a culture. It's an outsider's term.

6. This is something I am truly interested in seeing evidence of. Do you have any proof of that, besides your own word, or his?

I also would like to know just what percentage of his huge moneymaking business goes back into the tribes.

7. Oh come on. Do you seriously expect us to believe that tribal members go to an outsider for ceremony?

More likely, they were people who were brought in to convince you of the alleged authenticity of the ceremony. It's quite common for tourists like yourselves to be unable to tell the difference between mestizos and Natives. Many of the alleged "shamans" or curanderos who peddle "spiritual tourism" in Latin America are mestizos passing as Indian.

So they might not have even been tribal members, or at least knowledgable or ethical ones. Unless you know the language and knew people within the community beforehand, how would you even know?

8. In two weeks? That's incredibly naive, not to mention incredibly dangerous.

Would you trust an alleged doctor who said they had taken a two week medical course? Would you trust any kind of medical professional who naively thought two weeks was enough for "grounding"? I wouldn't let someone like that treat my dog or even a pet goldfish.

And again, why do you feel the need to set yourself up as a white guy becoming an Indian shaman? Why can't outsiders to Native cultures just be satisfied with learning to be a good person?

[bfl]

Dear educated indian,
Beginning with your last comment, I do not see how I am setting myself  up as a shaman at all.
I am offering myself up as someone who has actually been to one of Howard's retreats.
You also assume I am a white male. That's very interesting to me.
Do you really think that everyone interested in experiencing psychotropic plants, necesarrily considers themselves a shaman?
Is there not a single one among them who is merely trying  to be a good person?
How could you know?
The same way you think you know I am a "white guy" trying to pass myself off as a shaman?

This is the first time I have ever been on any forum about anything.
I thought that since there is a whole section devoted to the name"Howard Lawler" the discussion just would'nt be complete without the experience of someone who has actually met the man.
But apparently it is only useful as target practice  to keep those whom you perceive to be uppity "white guys, passing themselves off as shamans", in their place.

You have no idea who I am. You don't know my age my sex my race, my nationality, my background, my education or my integrity.

PS your user name suggests that you are an educated person from the country of India.

[Defend the Sacred]

PS your user name suggests that you are an educated person from the country of India.

(emphasis mine)

... only if you haven't spent much time around Native Americans and other Indigenous folks.

[dontpaytopray]

It's a good rule of thumb that all advertising should be analyzed with all of one's critical thinking faculties.

The ADVERTISER, not the skeptic, bears the burden of proof to show that his claims are legitimate.

I've just posted new links about Ayahuasca tourism on my site. There is a very good video put out by Jeronime M. Munoz - someone who came over from the exploiter side and speaks very honestly about his former errors in thinking.  It's very interesting to look at his evolution in thinking.

However, he does drop a lot of F-bombs when he tells his story. Naturally, people who don't want to hear what he has to saw are constructing red herrings about his tendency to do this. (Being a card carrying member of the ACLU I support an artists decision to drop F-bombs if he feels they are necessary to get his point across)

I think he makes all the points that the indigenous elders would make in a fairly accessible format (without the F-bombs of course)

The link is here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1471567783918794440&q=Jer%C3%B3nimo+M.M&ei=eSFlSI7-OoyErgPh0oCfAw&hl=en

<embed id="VideoPlayback" style="width:400px;height:326px" allowFullScreen="true" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=1471567783918794440&hl=en&fs=true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>

He links to this forum too!

Have a great weekend everybody.  Remember to get off the computer and speak with the 3 D ppl and learn a little bit of your language today!


Heather

[educatedindian]

bfl, once again, you assumed that this is all about "race". None of us did, including me.

I went out of my way to say this is all about people who are

>>>outsiders<<<

to Native cultures, usually but not necessarily white, as, again, I went out of my way to make clear.

And once again, you proved you are an outsider to Native cultures by your obsessive focus on race, repeatedly reading into others' comments, seeing race everywhere and in every word when it just isn't there.

I haven't seen someone so focused and obsessed with race since, well, the last time an outsider to Native cultures went into an extended bit of obsessiveness on the topic to try and sidetrack the topic from exploitation, abuse, and commercialization done by outsiders such as Lawler.

But I guess deliberately misreading and trying to sidetrack on one point out of eight is a good way to do anything you can to avoid having to answer the other seven points I asked about.

It's a shame. You came on here as someone trying to offer a firsthand perspective on Lawler's commercialization of what he claims to be ayahuasca ceremonies, but when questioned do all you can to avoid actually answering questions or concerns.

Lawler's hucksterism doesn't concern you? His pandering and his obesession with money and sales pitches? His peddling his wares on one of the lowest genres of television, "reality" series?

And the fact that you somehow imagined you had learned in a couple weeks (or it was somehow possible for anyone to learn) a great deal about healing traditions that take decades to learn, that doesn't concern you? That's even assuming Lawler presented anything close to actual ayahusca ceremony, which is very dubious.

[bfl]

Educated Indian,
You made a valid point. I only answered  1 out of your 7 statements sofar.
So let me try and do a better job this time.
So working back from your most recent communication, you say:


"bfl, once again, you assumed that this is all about "race". None of us did, including me.

I went out of my way to say this is all about people who are

>>>outsiders<<<

to Native cultures, usually but not necessarily white, as, again, I went out of my way to make clear."

But in  your first response to me you say:

"2. It tends to be white outsiders who, so used to race being the standard for everything, want to make race the issue, when the real issue is that they are from outside the culture. Their (and your) attempts to appropriate the cultural traditions alter, damage, or even destroy precisely what you claim to find so valuable."

And again, at the end of that same communication you say:

"And again, why do you feel the need to set yourself up as a white guy becoming an Indian shaman? "

Sooooo.... I didn't just pick it out of thin air. I think you are actually making a bigger deal out of "White guy"  than I am. The reason I brought it up was that you so blatantly seemed to jump to a conclusion about me that I thought it was well worth reflecting it back.

So the point is that of being an outsider.

Yes I am an outsider to the culture that traditionally takes ayahuasca and so, it appears, are you.
I come from a tiny little island in a warm sea and since I do not live there I am an outsider all the time, everywhere in whatever I do. Guilty as charged!

As to the allegations of Howard's "  peddling his wares on one of the lowest genres of television, "reality" series": I have followed the links to the site several times but cannot find any footage. I do not feel capable of giving an opinion untill I personally see it.
It does not feel like Howard is aware that someone cut and pasted his response in this blog and untill I actually see the footage of the program you speak of,  I think it possible that he is not even aware of that either.  It does not sound like the guy I knew in 2003. But hey, I could be wrong and if I am I would like to come to that conclusion by myself instead of having it rammed down my throat by you.
It's very patronizing.

As to the content of his response which AH pasted into this blog. I think he is being sincere on the one hand and on the other I think he is cutting and pasting himself, on the other, in order to get all his mail answered. I don't think he has any idea that someone has pasted it into this blog.

As to your allegations about his concern with money. When I was there in 2003 he certainly did not live ostentatiously, in fact it might be considered below US/EU standards for people per square foot. He is the only white person in his very extended mestizo family. Yes he charges a lot of money but I do not see it filling up his pockets perse.

As to your concern as to how much I actually knew when I stated that Howard's connection to his practice etc appear to be genuine. It is a moot point because I never set myself up as an expert. It was my observation based on my human experience on this earth. And ofcourse it is subjective.

Shaman is an outsider term to communicate a notion to outsiders. Curandero, brujeria etc are also outsider terms coming from the spanish language to communicate certain notions to Spaniards.
The fact of the matter is that the curanderismo practiced in the Iquitos area is a syncretism of indigeonous and Spanish/Catholic beliefs and is practiced mainly by mestizo curanderos and curanderas. It is said that  Mestizos learned the use of ayahuasca from the indigenous people some generations ago.

The tribes that now reside in that area, Shipibo, Bora, Yahua have been forced by the Peruvian government, to live in reservations even though their roaming turf comprises parts of Colombia and Brazil. Some tribes have been split apart as in the case of the Yahua, some live in Peru and some in Colombia.

This stationary lifestyle that has been forced on them has been devastating to their culture and many of them have lost their "actual healers". I think the "actual Healers you refer to between point 4 and 5 are the Taitas who currently reside in Colombia. Please refer me to the place where they single out and denounce the commercialism and exploitation of Lawler, the person. The following statement you make is misleading in that regard:
 "Actual healers in the Amazon have denounced the commercialism and exploitation of Lawler and others like him."
People can construe that to mean that Lawler himself has been identified by this group as a major offender.
So the point I am trying to make here is that the "Curanderos" that Howard works with are indeed Mestizos. And Yes members of especially the Yahua tribe did attend.
To me the difference between a Mestizo and an Indigena are as obvious as the differences between a mulatto and a full blooded native from Africa. And if you know your geography and colonial history, that should start to give you a hint of where I am actually from.

As to your concern over how I could have possibly gotten anything out of this in two weeks.
First of all, I did not go in hoping to come out a shaman. To this day I do not aspire to be a Shaman whatever that means. I was hoping to experience taking ayahuasca in a context acceptable to me for my own reasons. I did not do it with the Taitas of Colombia. I did it with two curanderos from Iquitos who have their own syncretistic tradition.

Let me just say once again that I wrote in because AH at one point was hoping to get feedback from someone who had actually been to Howards retreat. I had good faith that this would be a place where an actual discussion could take place. I don't feel that anymore. Tomorrow to be sure you will be parting out what I said here, phrase by phrase, numbering them and using them to attack my validity. Go ahead. AH is long gone and you are just singing to the choir now.

[Equinox]

I am appalled to see false statements associated with the name of a man who I honor and love as my true friend and brother.

I know Howard Lawler personally through attending his Huachuma Mesa works in the Amazon, the Andes and coastal Peru. This deeply healing and transformational work changed my life.

I know Howard as most honorable human being and attest to his uncompromising integrity. He performs his service with complete dedication, courage, and humility. I do, and always will, hold Howard in highest esteem as one of the finest people I know, always true to himself and to the higher purpose of his life. I am honored to know him.

What Howard offers to those who seek it, is genuine work with sacred plant medicine, performed in the spirit of respect for the unfathomable forces of the Universe and willingness to see the truth - both within and all around you. This work requires honesty, courage, and pure intent from everyone involved. Every impurity is exposed.

This is not a fraud, and I stand behind this statement.

Discernment comes from your heart. Please be open.

Warm regards,

Tanya

[educatedindian]

Tanya,  "he makes me feel good, so how can he be a fraud?" is a very poor defense. Basically you haven't said or proven anything, not even pointed out what you claim to be "false statements".

bfl,

2. Don't get mad at me because you keep deliberately overlooking words like "usually" or phrases like "tends to be".

Nice of you to admit you are an outsider, but very ignorant of you to assume that an NDN is an outsider to other NDNs.

Nice of you also to admit Lawler makes lots of money. If you think he lives poorly by "US standards" obviously you've never been to a rez or the inner city, where the poverty is about the same as the poorest parts of Latin America.

You admit you are not an expert, but that hasn't stopped you from acting as one. After all, if you'd bothered to check out the stats on poverty on the rezzes and inner cities, you'd have known better to make your statement.

And there's one more interesting contradiction. Supposedly Lawler is seen by you as the Great White Savior by NDNs, but then you say he is part of "mestizo family."

Both you and Tanya seem to be here to sneer at the choir, rather than discuss, and certainly not to listen to what NDNs actually have to say.
 

[njbigblue]

There is a lot of information in this thread and some people have gone off topic in their posts. I would like to bring it back to the subject... Howard Lawler.

I have personally been to his retreat twice in the past year. My first trip was for four Ayahuasca ceremonies and the second trip was for three Ayahuasca ceremonies and six Huachuma mesas.

For the person who thinks Howard brings in indigenous people for show in the ceremony you are wrong. For both of the Ayahuasca ceremonies there were people from the Bora, Yahua and Witoto Indian tribes present (not all on the same day). How do I know they are from these tribes? Because we visit these tribes during the stay there and I see these same people (and they were truly sick). These tribes do not have their own ayahuasquero so Howard offers them free treatment.

Why does he do this? It's because these tribes live off the land and do not have money to go into Iquitos to see a "regular" doctor.

Don Rober is truly gifted. When I first went to see Howard I had constant back pain. Don Rober performed a healing on my back during the Ayahuasca ceremonies and I can honestly say that my back pain has disappeared.

Prior to going to see Howard I had x-rays, a CAT scan and two MRI's done on my back and the doctors could not find anything wrong. In one week Don Rober healed me...

As for the spiritual and psychological treatment I received I can tell you it has been very beneficial. My friends have noticed a change in me (for the better). I fought a lot of inner demons during my work and Howard was very supportive and helpful in me getting resolution to my issues.

As for Howard himself I can tell you this... He is the most open, honest, no bullshit, trusting person I have ever met. He speaks from the heart and only has good intentions for everyone.

My experiences with him have been nothing short of spectacular. He runs a first class operation, is very knowledgeable and he personally works with every participant after each ceremony.

I have seen major changes in people after one week. I am not going to list names on here but I will tell you one of their stories.

This guy was raped by another man when he was a child. He was in intensive psychotherapy most of his life and even contemplated suicide at one point. After a week working with Howard, Don Rober and Ayahuasca he was a different person. He accomplished in one week what years of psychotherapy could not... he was able to forgive the person who raped him and not let that demon rule his life. The change in him was profound. I still communicate with him on a regular basis and his life has turned around 100%. He is a completely different person from the one I first met.

As for Howard's email response being a "long sales pitch", well, Howard likes to give you all the information you need to decide if you want to work with him. Besides, the email he received did not ask any specific question that I could see. It just said that this website is claiming he is a fraud.

Has anyone other than the person who posted actually sent Howard an email asking specific questions? If so please post them here with his response.

Without actually going to see Howard and spend time at his retreat I cannot see how anyone on here can claim he is a fraud. You are making assumptions based on your view of reality and projecting it into this forum. The people who have gone to see Howard and posted on here have all stated he is not a fraud. I have not seen one post by a person who has gone to see Howard and came back saying he is a fraud.

So get off your ass and go see Howard. If after spending time with him you still think he is a fraud (which I doubt) then at least you will have personal experience to back up your claims.

He is all about healing (physical, mental and spiritual) and that is the central message of his organization.

Scott

P.S. If after my first experience I had even the slightest hint that Howard was a fraud you can bet you ass I would not have gone back to see him a second time.

[educatedindian]

1.... He is the most open, honest, no bullshit, trusting person I have ever met. He speaks from the heart and only has good intentions for everyone.

2....he personally works with every participant after each ceremony.

3....As for Howard's email response being a "long sales pitch", well, Howard likes to give you all the information you need to decide if you want to work with him. Besides, the email he received did not ask any specific question that I could see. It just said that this website is claiming he is a fraud.

4. Without actually going to see Howard and spend time at his retreat I cannot see how anyone on here can claim he is a fraud. You are making assumptions based on your view of reality and projecting it into this forum. The people who have gone to see Howard and posted on here have all stated he is not a fraud. I have not seen one post by a person who has gone to see Howard and came back saying he is a fraud.

So getoff your ass and go see Howard. If after spending time with him you still think he is a fraud (which I doubt) then at least you will have personal experience to back up your claims....

Scott

5. P.S. If after my first experience I had even the slightest hint that Howard was a fraud you can bet you ass I would not have gone back to see him a second time.

Scott, I added numbers so it'd be clearer what I was responding to.

1. You bet, open honest people always respond to requests for proof they don't abuse people or lie by ignoring the question and giving long sales pitches instead.

Open honest people always go to the sleaziest of tv genres, "reality television," to try and hawk their businesses and make more money. Didn't Albert Schweitzer go to the tabloids to promote himself and make bucks?

2. Amazing. You went there for a few trips but claim to have seen each and every person he ever worked with.

3. Like Lawler, you deliberately avoid seeing what you don't want to see. Lawler was asked specific questions, but his brain tuned them out and automatically went into the sales pitch.

4. Try doing some reading before wasting our time. "Have you actually met him in person?" is a very common empty headed defense used by Nuagers and ceremony sellers to avoid critics, and it's been covered before in other threads.

You know, instead of demanding we waste thousands of dollars on empty spiritual tourism and ceremony selling, you could've gotten off your ass and done a little research. But you were too lazy to even hit the search button.

5. Since you know very little about Native traditions, that doesn't exactly prove much. Con men are called con men because they get your confidence.

The clearest example of how you know so little is this. The three tribes you listed all use ayayuasca widely, have for many years.

No, you're certainly no expert on the cultures, or even on how the local tribes regard Lawler. Two of those tribes number in the tens of thousands, so the few dozen people you saw mean little. But as someone whose spent his money on Lawler repeatedly, let me ask you why Lawler keeps sending his clients  here to defend him? Is he losing business, or does he fear losing business?

Or perhaps marks might be a better word. After all, if you truly wanted healing, you would have gone to an actual healer, not a white guy promoting himself on tabloid TV. What is it that makes you and the others assume the white guy is a superior healer to the actual Native healers? Besides the websites set up for spiritual tourism, that is.

Because in the end, what shows Lawler to be a huckster is the way you and others find him, on top of his dubious claims to be the Great White Savior of Poor Amazon Indians and the way he sends his spiritual tourists to defend his business. If he truly were a healer, there'd be no flashy promotions, no king sized displays of ego like in his sales pitches.

If you'd been healed, for example, the way  I've seen white veterans cured of PTSD by being sent to healers their Native buddies in the military recommended to them, that we can all see as a good thing. If a local man had sent you to someone he recommended who works and does good quietly, without fanfare and a big profit margin, yes. But Donald Trump of the Jungle as a White Indian Healer? No one with sense will buy that.

[Defend the Sacred]

Prior to going to see Howard I had x-rays, a CAT scan and two MRI's done on my back and the doctors could not find anything wrong. In one week Don Rober healed me...

... I'm not sure how there being no evidence of you having a back problem in the first place is therefore evidence that you were later healed of a back problem. Just saying...