HelpTheIndians.com

[birger]

Patience is bliss 

[educatedindian]

Leonard and Birger, quit spamming this forum with all kinds of videos and other things unrelated to what we're talking about.

Thanks Ingeborg. It seems pretty clear to me that Husby is a ceremony seller and exploiter. His own websites make that pretty clear.

Leonard, can I take what you say in your last post to mean that your organization would cut all ties with him, based on the evidence of him being an exploiter?

I'd be happy to retitle this thread to make it clearer this is about Husby, and not your charity.

[Leonard]

Oh, Ok, sorry - I was not meaning this to you - I was only trying to make a joke to 'Olav' because he never shows up and makes fools of us all - we really believed and he betrayed us all - please delete this account and delete my hope that anyone can make a difference. I am afraid we are on our own - and I am so sorry that we could not be friends in some other time. My friend Jeri Baker is a good person - so please delete me for any problems that I have caused and forget 'Olav' - just -delete- I just tried and you do not wish it - good bye -

please delete and forgive 'ONE Spirit' as it did not happen.

[jeribaker]

Hello,

I am Jeri Baker and the Director of ONE Spirit.  I am very respectful of this group and their mission to protect Native Americans, their traditions and culture from exploitation.  ONE Spirit is a 501c3 organization of 30 plus all volunteer staff who work with the Lakota people to support their efforts and initiatives.  90% of all donations go directly to the programs and the other 10% is used to pay the accountant, maintain the web site, printing, postage, etc.   Our web site clearly outlines our programs so I won't repeat that here.  Please look at our web site if you wish more information about the programs - www.nativeprogress.org.

Olav Husby has recently been in touch with ONE Spirit and has made donations to the programs.  While he will be on this forum and able to answer questions about himself and his organization, Help The Indians, if you have any questions about ONE Spirit, I will be happy to answer.

When this group is satisfied, I would like to recommend that you also have on your site a list of organizations and people who work closely with Native Americans in an honorable way.  I don't know if this is part of your mission, but the ONE Spirit programs established on Pine Ridge provide vital food, heat, clothing, youth programs and some employment for the people there.   Other programs that will provide additional employment and services for the communities are being planned.  We would appreciate whatever you can do to help publicize the programs and the great needs of the Pine Ridge people. 

If you have read this far, I thank you for your time.  I look forward to cooperating with you for the benefit of the Lakota people.

Jeri Baker
Director
ONE Spirit

[frederica]

Hello Jeri Baker. Sorry about the misunderstanding, your organization "One Spirit" looks like an honorable group. The original question was for him just to identify which Nation he was actually supporting by his donations. Somehow it took on a life of its own. The question is not about the charity itself, but the person's other activities. There are several such organizations on different rezs which do similiar work and all are honorable. Keep up the good work. There us a list here for "hellpful people" (cannot think of a better word right now). I don't think it inclludes this type of organization or group, but might be a good idea. Thank you.

[Redheart]

Hi everybody. I hope you are enjoying yourselves talking behind my back and misunderstanding my good deeds. I do not need to explain myself to any of you on this forum, but I choose to do so anyhow.

 

According my “spiritual duties??? : I do not perform native ceremonies. From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.

 

I know native culture and philosophy pretty well, and I am to humble and full of respect, to actually perform native ceremonies myself. I have participated in several ceremonies in America.

 

I know that Native Americans have been robbed of everything, including their spirituality. I try not to be the kind of man that takes, but gives. Please try to understand my point of view.

 

I know for sure there is a lot of both natives and others, claiming to be something they are not, also on this forum. Some of the contributors here should perhaps be looking inwards before they show disrespect and judge people they do not know. Judgement is for The Great Spirit only.

 

My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such. But we agree that Native American ceremonies are to be performed by Native Americans only.

 

I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile.

 

I have travelled several years, selling genuine native arts and crafts. The profit has been donated. I do not charge any wage or admin fee for myself. I am working from my heart trying to help those in need, and I will continue this work in the future.

 

I and the Indian support organization aim to collect 1000.000 $ or more this year, and in 2008 we wish to donate the income to build a cultural centre in Allen, Pine Ridge. One spirit is responsible for this project, where the Natives themselves will be building this necessary building. If some of you wish to contribute you are welcome to this at www.nativeprogress.org, or www.helptheindians.com

 

That is what I got to say about the matter. Those of you who wish to continue discrediting and disrespecting people you have never met, be my guest. I myself got more positive activities to do with my valuable time.

 

Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma....

 

I wish you all peace, love and lots of joy in life.

Best of wishes from Olav Redheart in Norway.

 

MITAKUYE OYASIN
 
 

[educatedindian]

Not the most believable defense:

"talking behind my back"

Actually it was you who was doing a bit of hiding, including calling yourself by an "Indian" name.

"I do not need to explain myself to any of you on this forum, but I choose to do so anyhow."

The "I'm too spiritual" defense. And yes you do need to. Your own associates in the charity think so too.

"I do not perform native ceremonies."

No, you perform false versions of them, or mislead people on your site into thinking they are Native. From the websites of yours that Ingeborg found:
Shamanism
 - healing
- remote healing
- Indian life philosophy
- meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate]
 - leading the path
 - drum journeys
 - ceremonies

"From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.

This must be one of the most ridiculous and egotistical defenses I've ever heard. Are you seriously claiming Natives come to you to be healed?

Or are you admitting to setting up Nuage ceremonies in Europe?

Frankly, given your lack of knowledge, it's more likely that the people you've arranged for ARE plastics.

If so, kindly say who these people are.

"I know native culture and philosophy pretty well"

If you believed in Franzone/Ghostwolf, false prophecies, harmonic transformation, and remote healing, obviousy you don't know Native beliefs well at all. You know Nuage false versions of them.

"I have participated in several ceremonies in America."

Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt you could tell the difference.

"Some of the contributors here should perhaps be looking inwards before they show disrespect and judge people they do not know. Judgement is for The Great Spirit only."

Use the word "judge" the way Nuagers do, meaning don't use your brain.

"My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such."

Yet you set yourself up as an expert on Native healing, mislead others into thinking you are doing Native healing, and possibly arrange Nuage ceremonies.

"I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile."

That's not believable at all. You endorsed Ghostwolf/Franzone's bizarre fraudulent version of Hopi prophecies. For anyone who knew anything about Native beliefs, even the quickest read would have them shaking their head, saying "What the heck is this nonsense?"

"Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma."

And if you send out deception?

"Best of wishes from Olav Redheart in Norway.
MITAKUYE OYASIN"

The standard Nuage misuse of that Lakota phrase.

[educatedindian]

Jeri Baker, and Olav Husby,

It's a shame Leonard and Birger left. No one had asked them to, they did so on their own.

Once they offered for your charity to have nothing to do with Husby if he would not explain his actions, which they admitted were wrong.

Husby's words are not believable, and he seems to be refusing to answer any more questions. I'd like to urge your charity again to refuse to have him represent you in Norway, and insist he no longer claim to be affiliated with your group.

If he is truly as good hearted as he claims to be, he will continue giving to your charity or raising funds, but without using the name of your charity to promote himself and give the impression it is HIS charity.

[birger]

To Educateindian.

It was my intention to let this go, but now I feel I have to respond, since Educateindian has put words in my mouth wich I have not spoken. Since Educatindian also has commented Olav's post with his "doubts" and negativism, I wish to make my final contribution to this thread, in Olav's defence
"Once they offered for your charity to have nothing to do with Husby if he would not explain his actions, which they admitted were wrong.", "Your own associates in the charity think so too."

Why do you put words in my mouth? I have not admitted anything to you. Leonard has nothing to do with helptheindians.com, and as far as I know, not with nativeprogress either. His words are his own.

I challenge you to find evidence proving Olav as a fraud. None of Ingeborg's links are saying Olav is performing indian ceremonies himself.

"I do not perform native ceremonies."

No, you perform false versions of them, or mislead people on your site into thinking they are Native. From the websites of yours that Ingeborg found:
Shamanism
 - healing
- remote healing
- Indian life philosophy
- meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate]
 - leading the path
 - drum journeys
 - ceremonies

"From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.

This must be one of the most ridiculous and egotistical defenses I've ever heard. Are you seriously claiming Natives come to you to be healed?
This sentence is misunderstood and perhaps wrong english, you have to pardon us norwegians for not writing english fluently. What he means is: he offer help to Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia if they are in need of a local person helping them with practical organizing, and that these are not plastic shamans

"I have participated in several ceremonies in America."

Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt you could tell the difference. That's your opinion. Why share your "doubts" since you obviously have no whatsoever knowledge of which ceremonies Olav has attended?

"My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such."

Yet you set yourself up as an expert on Native healing, mislead others into thinking you are doing Native healing, and possibly arrange Nuage ceremonies.
Can you please explain where I can find this information? Olav has never claimed to perform NATIVE healing or ceremonies, and he is stating that in his answer. why do you keep repeating something that's not true?

"I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile."

That's not believable at all. You endorsed Ghostwolf/Franzone's bizarre fraudulent version of Hopi prophecies. For anyone who knew anything about Native beliefs, even the quickest read would have them shaking their head, saying "What the heck is this nonsense?"  Olav apologize this. If you choose not to believe him, so be it. But that is not an argument.

"Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma."

And if you send out deception? It is of course bad karma as well. I guess you are insinuating Olav is deceiting the rest of the world and the natives. If you can prove that show me the evidence? Or is this forum the kind that shoots first and ask questions later?
 
Husby's words are not believable, and he seems to be refusing to answer any more questions. I'd like to urge your charity again to refuse to have him represent you in Norway, and insist he no longer claim to be affiliated with your group. Which questions? All you do is attacking olav without hearing what he's got to say.

Olav is not on trial here. Or is he? How can you INSIST, if you don't have a clue? He has given his explanation, and if you want to label him as a fraud with absolutely no evidence, but based on "doubts" and scepticism, this forum is a  fraud itself.

If he is truly as good hearted as he claims to be, he will continue giving to your charity or raising funds, but without using the name of your charity to promote himself and give the impression it is HIS charity.

Olav is the founder of the organization. But he does not stop there. He is on the road trying to inform scandinvians, and help natives in his own way, and donate his profit to charity. He do not represent himself, but the organisation in this important work collecting money.

Olav is not pretending to be a native or perform native ceremonies. But he has dedicated his life to help Native Americans, and some people on this forum want to arrest him for that.Hopefully you got something better to do with your lives than spread lies and negativity towards persons who wish to help the natives. I wish you the best and urge you to make a positive contribution yourself. I will retire for good from this forum, I see no point in further postings.

If this forum choose to label Olav as a fraud so be it. I know for sure Olav is not exploiting Native Amercans, he tries to help.


Good fortune to you all, and goodbye.

Birger

[Moma_porcupine]

This is what Ingeborg posted;

"Olav Redheart Ramirez Husby - Indian Support Organisation
 
Indian crafts and drums on order
Shamanism - healing - remote healing - Indian life philosophy - meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate] - leading the path - drum journeys - ceremonies - workshops
Spritual journeys

Assuming this is from Olav's website, this in itself is enough to raise some legitmate concerns and discomfort because in all the Native traditions I have ever known, there is a strong feeling that these things should not be advertised.

So right there Olav has changed traditions in a way many Natve people feel is wrong.

It's hard to find opinions which reflect real Native culture on the internet, but here is a few quotes explaining these feelings.   

http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Articles2001/RLAllen-CherokeeStatement-Shamans.htm

By Richard L. Allen, EdD Research &
Policy Analyst Cherokee Nation

Cherokee medicine people and spiritual leaders are known to the Cherokee people and do not practice medicine for a fee nor sell "shamanic" lessons to anyone. They do not advertise their services through any form of media and certainly not over the internet.

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/adviceonpowwowtrail.html
Boye G. Ladd
 

Many times I have seen individuals "showing off" their sundance scars, tobacco ties or amulets hanging around their necks - exposed. When a person carries protection and/or medicine, it should always be hidden and never be spoken about.

Spiritual leaders and medicine men should be considered in the same light. For the true and sincere, their reverence is based on humbleness, dedication and sacrifice. Anytime someone stands before you and claims to be a medicine man, do not believe him or anything he says, because he or she has desecrated their oath of humbleness. You will not find a true and sincere spiritual leader or medicine man teaching in a school or university, or seeking public attention.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/shamanco.htm
(Bob Gufstason is a Warrior of the Mohawk Nation )

our traditional elders do not advertise in the pages of NEW AGE or in Pagan publications.  Indeed, our traditional elders are among our most militant political leaders.  Many of them urge total separation from the dominant society.

http://www.shadowwork.com/interview-jcrier.html

John Crier is a certified Shadow Work coach in Hobbema, Alberta, Canada, as well as a mentor to adults and young people within and beyond the Cree community. For eleven years, he has been on the faculty of Maskwachees Cultural College in Hobbema and currently holds the position of Dean of Cultural Studies.

John: In the Native communities, people who do the work of a shaman, or sage, do not advertise themselves openly or even at all. The People have the understanding that those who are not from the aboriginal community are the ones who advertise themselves openly. There's an underlying negative judgment that anyone who is portraying himself as a shaman is only doing it for self-benefit.

There's a history behind that. People who did the work of the shaman a long time ago did not advertise; they did not go intentionally to be a "shaman."

Claiming to want to support Native people but getting angry when people point out that the culture is being damaged through being distorted ,  seems rather contradictory.

[birger]

It was not my meaning to sound angry, but I think it is unjust to say that Olav is exploiting Native Americans.

[Ingeborg]

This is what Ingeborg posted;

"Olav Redheart Ramirez Husby - Indian Support Organisation
 
Indian crafts and drums on order
Shamanism - healing - remote healing - Indian life philosophy - meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate] - leading the path - drum journeys - ceremonies - workshops
Spritual journeys

Assuming this is from Olav's website, this in itself is enough to raise some legitmate concerns and discomfort because in all the Native traditions I have ever known, there is a strong feeling that these things should not be advertised.

No, not from Husby's site - these were sites showing up in the google research educatedindian did and posted as a link.

Since you still happen to be on-line, Birger:

This sentence is misunderstood and perhaps wrong english, you have to
pardon us norwegians for not writing english fluently. What he means is: he
offer help to Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia if they are in need
of a local person helping them with practical organizing, and that these are
not plastic shamans

There are commercial sites in Norway and Denmark who list Mr Husby as offering
ceremonies. I wonder whether you mean to say that the owners of these sites
have got this all wrong?

So Mr Husby and you claim he only arranges and organizes events during which
others, presumably Native Americans, perform ceremonies. I'd like to know who
these persons promoted by Mr Husby may be, so can you please give us some
names.

Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt
you could tell the difference. That's your opinion. Why share your
"doubts" since you obviously have no whatsoever knowledge of which ceremonies
Olav has attended?

Again: please do tell us with whom Mr Husby did these alleged ceremonies.

[educatedindian]

There's so many contradictions in what Birger is saying it's hard to know where to begin:

1. Getting very angry and judgemental just because we are not naive enough to simply take Husby's word for something, yet insisting any show of emotion on our part is the wrong thing to do.

2. Insisting that what Husby says is "proof," but what Natives have to say is "only opinion."

3. And of course denying the words said by Leonard and Birger.
"I have not admitted anything to you."

And yet in Leonard's earlier post:

"I was only trying to make a joke to 'Olav' because he never shows up and makes fools of us all - we really believed and he betrayed us all."

Like you say, perhaps these problems were caused by English being your second language.

4. Later on you claim:
"All you do is attacking olav without hearing what he's got to say."

Oh brother. Both you and Husby think getting angry is enough to defend what Husby is doing, and then ignore the evidence of numerous website.

And the fact that Husby refuses to even talk? That does not make you suspicious?

No, both you and Husby think saying "I'm a nice guy, trust me" is all the defense you need.

5. And near the end you say:

"Olav is the founder of the organization. But he does not stop there. He is on the road trying to inform scandinvians, and help natives in his own way"

It's not clear which organization you meant, HelptheIndians.com, or ISO. I doubt you mean One Spirit. In either case, my message was meant for Jeri Baker, to ask her to have nothing to do with Husby since there are still so many questions.

And getting angry and insulting (while insisting Natives have no right to be angry, or that what we say is "just opinion") and then leaving with a show of being offended does not help either you or Husby. It just makes both of you look as though you want to avoid us finding out the truth.

I still say to Jeri Baker, until these questions are answered, please have nothing to do with Husby.

[earthw7]

I want to know where this so called money is going? as a person living on the reservation. Second since when do we have people talking for us in Europe?
Why are Native people traveling to Europe? Why are they doing ceremonies in Europe?
Are there white people in those ceremonies? Why would a white person be a Native ceremonies?

[Freija]

Birger and Olav - hej, neighbours! I am from Sverige, I have run a charity organisation helping Natives for seven years, so if you don´t mind, I´d like to share some thoughts.

Believe me,  when I was new I was picked to pieces and accused of many things - simply because there is a very large amount of people out there making money out of Ndn:s. If you ask me, they have any rights in the world to be suspicious. So it is up to us to prove who we are and what intentions we have. 

Now, why do many people get so angry when they are being checked out? If you have nothing to hide, what´s the problem?!.In fact, isn´t it great that Natives are willing to help us so that we get things right?!! I myself had some things pointed out to me that I changed - I was very grateful for that since I just didn´t know…..

We have always had certain info on our website: our final accounts each year, letting people know how much money came in and the expenses. A list of who got donations, how much, and where they can be reached. Name and emailaddress to our accountant. My advice would be to put that up on your site, too.

Mentioning ceremonies and healing…..then you´re on a slippery road. Why do so many people wanting to help Natives talk about ceremonies and spirituality? Why not just raise money?! If you DO get invited in to ceremonies in Native communities run by legitimate leaders, then it is a personal gift that you treasure - and not use as a way to gain fame and fortune. Well, just my way of seeing it…..

None of the Natives I´ve invited to Sweden have had any wish to do ceremonies or healing! They have come to Scandinavia to speak about the issues Natives of today face, most often about the exploitation.

I think you´ve come to the crossroad that all of us involved in “The Indian business??? (LOL) come to sooner or later. The time has come to make the choice: Do you want to gain respect from elders/Elders, spiritual leaders and traditionalists? Or do you prefer the New Age circles and Ndn:s selling their culture? You can´t have it both ways, see…..OK, take your pick, guys! 

Lycka till!