John Roos, claiming enrollment with lakota nation

[Most_Respectful]

Yes. And I'll be happy to share my thoughts/opinions/take on this whole matter with anyone who wants to hear it. As you all know, there are two sides to every story. Mr. Denny has a right to his opinion, but there's more to his targeting of John than meets the eye. As for the e-mails we exchanged, I'm more than willing to post my response to what he sent me.

[Barnaby_McEwan]

So why not just get on with it?

Actually why not let Roos - apparently a friend of yours - borrow your computer, sign up here, and tell his side of the story himself? The sign-up procedure isn't too hard, and you've done it, so you can help him with it.

[Most_Respectful]

I can suggest that, but he's more inclined to give Mr. Denny's accusations to Spirit. I'm more vocal and less inclined to see my friend's name and/or reputation maligned - especially when he's done nothing wrong. He's not holding "Indian 101" seminars ... he's not charging people to pray at the lodge (nor does he throw open the door to any and all who want to sweat because they think it would be "cool") ... he's not claiming to be a medicine man or a holy man ... and he's not using his position as chair of the talking staff recovery meeting as anything more than a moderator for those who wish to find recovery along the Red Road. The business arrangement between John and Chaska is a matter that came to a close between the two of them more than a year ago, but it seems someone still holds a grudge and is attempting to muddy the waters with inaccuracies and false accusations.

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Ah, the "My spiritual buddy's too pure and good to soil his lily-white hands on the likes of you" defense.

Your own scramble for the moral high ground is similarly absurd. The guy is pretending to be a Lakota and you helped him do that with your Daily Times article, an inaccuracy you have not addressed. Next, still trying to help him I guess, you turn up here and get busted immediately while clumsily trying to find out what's going on without revealing who you are.

Ask yourself, who's getting the most out of this, Steve? You're the one who's making an ass of himself in public by covering for a fraud.

[earthw7]

I can suggest that, but he's more inclined to give Mr. Denny's accusations to Spirit. I'm more vocal and less inclined to see my friend's name and/or reputation maligned - especially when he's done nothing wrong. He's not holding "Indian 101" seminars ... he's not charging people to pray at the lodge (nor does he throw open the door to any and all who want to sweat because they think it would be "cool") ... he's not claiming to be a medicine man or a holy man ... and he's not using his position as chair of the talking staff recovery meeting as anything more than a moderator for those who wish to find recovery along the Red Road. The business arrangement between John and Chaska is a matter that came to a close between the two of them more than a year ago, but it seems someone still holds a grudge and is attempting to muddy the waters with inaccuracies and false accusations.

That is nice but if your not Indian then don't use the red road

[Moma_porcupine]

http://thedailytimes.com/article/20071105/LIFE03/71104024

The Sacred Tree Recovery Circle, part of the White Bison Society 12-Step program, meets from 7:30-9 p.m. every Sunday at Mountain View United Methodist Church, 3200 Old Maryville Pike (also known as Highway 33 or Old Knoxville Highway), just across the Blount/Knox county line. It’s open to all persons — Native Americans, whites and people of all ethnic descent — who are looking for a new spiritual program of recovery.

Those familiar with other 12-Step programs will find similarities in the way the White Bison Society meetings are conducted, but there are distinct differences as well — most related to Native American customs and traditions.

For more information on the White Bison Society, go online to www.whitebison.org. For information on the local Sacred Tree Recovery Circle meeting, call John Roos, an enrolled member of the Lakota Sioux, at 405-5698.

This article was written by;

Steve Wildsmith is a recovering addict and the Weekend editor for The Daily Times.

Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 02:55:48 pm »     

I just rec ieved an email which was originated by steve wikdsmith, who is the weekend editor of the Daily Times in Knoxville, TN in which Mr. Wildsmith admits that not only is John Roos  his roomate, but the John Roos is NOT INDIAN...NOT ENROLLED...AND IS ACTUALLY POLISH!!!

Reply #12
supposedly quoting an email from Steve Wildsmith;

OK, you're right - "Wannabe John" is not an Indian ... he's not enrolled ...  he's not even Italian. He's Polish!

Hi Most_Respectful and welcome

Putting everything else aside for the moment, I would like to ask if John Roos is an enrolled Lakota, and if he is not, why this was published? It may be that the person who posted this complaint has reasons of their own, but claiming to be able to support people in healing, and also to be someone you are not, is a serious contradiction.

A few things here are of concern.

First, as much as addiction recovery programs that are created for Native people need to be appropriate to Native culture and traditions, unless a person is Native or otherwise has a strong connection with a Native community, I really don't see any good reason to offer "Indianized" a 12 step programs.

As Earth says, unless Mr Roos is serving a large Lakota population in Tennessee, I fail to see what benift anyone expects to find in pretending a 12 step program is a partly based in Lakota traditions.
 
Second, addiction recovery programs and other rehabilitation groups often make the mistake of hiring dishonest and unskilled people just because the job applicant says they have training in Native healing.  Non native people often haven't got a clue what that is, all sorts of unsavory characters get hired. As these programs work with some of the most vulnerable people in society, it is very important that the people who are hired to support their recovery are entirely honest and comfortable with who they really are. If someone is really Polish but is claiming to be Lakota, it seems highly unlikely they are going to have the skills to help anyone come to terms with themselves in a real way.

Lastly, a lot of Elders are really uncomfortable to see young people learning distorted traditions from rehabilitation programs. Here is an on line example of some of the concerns;

http://interact.cbc.ca/pipermail/hotsheets/2005-August/000296.html

FIRST VOICE:
 
The Healing Circus today on First Voice. The word "healing" is everywhere these days - there are hundreds of treatment programs out there to help aboriginal people get over their addictions and residential school trauma. But are native spiritual traditions being distorted and ultimately lost as a result? Roger Roulette thinks so. He's an Ojibway linguist and translator, and the son of an esteemed medicine man. Hear his critique of the modern native healing industry, today on First Voice, with Carol Morin, this morning at 9:30 (10 NT) on CBC Radio One.

 

If this is a misunderstanding perhaps either you or Mr Roos can  explain.     

[Most_Respectful]

He's not "claiming." He's enrolled through his adopted mother, Muriel Ashmore, buried on Dave Swallow's property.

[Most_Respectful]

Ah, the "My spiritual buddy's too pure and good to soil his lily-white hands on the likes of you" defense.

Your words, not mine.

Your own scramble for the moral high ground is similarly absurd.

How is defending a friend a "scramble for the moral high ground"?

The guy is pretending to be a Lakota and you helped him do that with your Daily Times article, an inaccuracy you have not addressed.

John says he's enrolled and he's shown me the paperwork. Chaska says he isn't. For you to ask for "more research," you seem awfully quick to judge and take sides.

Next, still trying to help him I guess, you turn up here and get busted immediately while clumsily trying to find out what's going on without revealing who you are.

If I wanted to hide who I was, I wouldn't have registered under my own e-mail. As soon as you pointed it out, I admitted it. Doesn't appear like I'm hiding anything.

Ask yourself, who's getting the most out of this, Steve? You're the one who's making an ass of himself in public by covering for a fraud.

Again, you're awfully quick to take sides. I fail to see how, in defending a friend against another man's accusations, I'm "making an ass" of myself.

Seems like you're so over-eager to protect your culture and your ways that you shoot first and ask questions later. You should consider gathering all of the facts before calling names and making judgements. Then again, it's your message board, and as the administrator, you're free to do whatever you want.

[Barnaby_McEwan]

John says he's enrolled and he's shown me the paperwork. Chaska says he isn't. For you to ask for "more research," you seem awfully quick to judge and take sides.

You've seen enough tribal paperwork to spot a forgery? Chaska said weeks ago that the BIA office in Aberdeen has no record of Roos, who claimed to him that his paperwork was stolen. [sarcasm]Good to know he got it back[/sarcasm]. If you think Chaska is being dishonest, get in touch with the BIA or the tribal government. I find it interesting that neither of you appear to have thought of that: it seems like that would be a good way to make all of this go away.

If I wanted to hide who I was, I wouldn't have registered under my own e-mail. As soon as you pointed it out, I admitted it.

Don't give me that, you had no choice. What a position to be in, having to admit your real name as if it was a crime. You were here to fish for information: you didn't defend Roos until after you were outed.

Seems like you're so over-eager to protect your culture and your ways that you shoot first and ask questions later. You should consider gathering all of the facts before calling names and making judgements.

First, I'm not Indian. Lakota people are eager to protect their ways, and I'm eager to help, since frauds harm non-Indians in my community.

Second, this thread's been open almost three weeks. Lots of traditional people visit this forum, word gets around, and if anyone traditional who knows Roos thought him worth defending they probably would have done so by now. Instead we got you sniffing around.

[Moma_porcupine]

I guess I am still not sure what the situation is. Was Mr Roos adopted legally when he was a child and still needed a guardian, in a way that required paper work or is this some kind of traditional adoption? Earth is Lakota and she started a thread explaining what it means to be adopted according to Lakota traditions.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0

 Earth7   
Adoption Ceremonies
« on: August 17, 2007, 08:33:48 am »    

I don't know if this is the area to be put this post but here goes.

The adoption ceremonies of my people the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota are
called Hunka ceremonies.
I would like to explain a little about them.
What they are and what they are NOT.

The adoption ceremonies are a ceremonies to adopt an individual into a family.
When you lose a family member you have the right to adopt a member.
When you are close to a person for a long time you have the right to adopt
them as a member of your family.
This relationship is sarced.

The right as a Hunka relatived are to care for your new family as they care for you.


Now for what they are NOT.
There has never been a person who has been adopted into the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
Nation. This has not happen in the past nor today.

The Lakota/Dakota/Nakota Nations are in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska,
Minnesota, three Canadain States. in order for a person to be adopted into the nation
it would have to be OKed by all of the nations and bands. I can tell it has never happened.

What right the adoptees Do Not have:
They have No Rights to ceremonies,
They have NO Rights to our stories
They have NO Rights to medicine,
They have No Rights to inherit medicine men names,
They have No Right to names,
They have NO Right to speak for our nations
They have No Right to speak for our governments,
They Have No Rights to speak for the adopted families,

If a person claims to be adopted by the Lakota or Dakota or Nakota
If a person claim to be taught medicine by a Lakota or Dakota or Nakota

Beware

I wasn't aware there was any paperwork involved in a traditional adoption, if this is what Mr Roos is claiming and don't think anyone can get enrolled on account of this. In many places even children adopted when they are young can't get enrolled, and for that matter, there is many children born to an enrolled parent that can't get enrolled because they don't have the required blood quota. So this whole story sounds very questionable
 
Earth 7 is Lakota and maybe she would know if this sounds like something that might happen.

[Barnaby_McEwan]

I gather Muriel Ashmore and her husband Walter Littlemoon are very well-known and well-respected for their work. They founded the Tiyospaye Crisis Center in Denver.

[earthw7]

I still don't understand how you can be adopted and enrolled. Even if you are adopted does not mean you get enrolled unless your bio-parents are enrolled.
What kind of paper work are you talking about?? What is his enrollment number?
I am asking for proof.

[frederica]

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=199489;article=25087      Found this on web search. Looks like some in Tennessee had some questions about the same. Goes back to the latter part of October/Nov 07.

[gdmedicine]

Yarnells business agreement???

Here is the business agreement signed by the Yarnells to Mr. Padgett....
Once he secured a open line of credit of 1.5 Million for the Yarnells, they refused to HONOR the agreement.....
then retained a lawyer to get out of their agreement.....
Mr. Padgett had no option but to inform investors that the Yarnells word was no good to him...
No where in this Agreement does it mention John Roos, he was to be a hired worker IF the business plan had completly went through....
I have no grudge against Roos over this business agreement, but his so called friends the Yarnells, their word is NO GOOD....



 

[gdmedicine]

well, looks like Mr. Roos current company is trying to defend and fight for him but the bottom line is ANYONE WHO IS REALLY INDIAN WOULD KNOW THAT BEING "ADOPTED" DONT MAKE YOU A TRIBAL MEMBER!!!...DUH!!!.....as far as the enrollment being proven...IF this was true the tribe in question would ACKNOWLEDGE THAT and it would be on  record at the BIA!!...duh...looks like just another non-indian who went to ceremony and now has become an authority on the red road and tradtional teachings and is using the names of those medicine people (who felt sorry for him and tried to help  him) to promote himslef as a Lakota and as someone who has authority to conduct ceremonies...NOT!!....
so yeah...Mr. Roos and company...get mad...get good and mad because this fraud is all coming to an end