Suraj Holzwarth aka White Eagle Medicine Woman

[mtig49]

your are on the same page lol and i have a feeling that i WE will see soon

[Jim]

Delated by Jim.

[Superdog]

[Incidently.... one of our members purchased the 'Smudge Feather'....which happens to be an Eagle Feather...all info and feather has been turned over to Fish and Wildlife...these items are STILL for sale on Rachels site.

Also she's going ahead with her teachings...the ceremony she is offering for a price...is Native American in nature.

Wow.....I had a hunch about that....she really IS selling Eagle feathers over the net....

Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad......

Grrr!!!!!

[Superdog]

Well...selling the Eagle Feathers is it for me....but I can't help but think about her abuse of these SACRED items and the energy it brings around her and her instrument.  That thing ends up becoming an amplifier for shooting it out everywhere.  If you were one of the protesters or someone that came across the feather she sold you over the net...protect yourself, get your smudge out and use it.  I only say this, because I found a tad bit more on the event in Australia where she was challenged by some of the aborigines and where eventually soon after her help in Australia that booked her events met an unfortunate end.

The link to the message board is here.  This thread was begun by the Editor of her DVD (not the film crew...didn't go on the road with her...just edited the film, but still admits to "playing" her instrument whenever possible)

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message432531/pg1

For those that don't want to read it I'll copy and paste the relevant info.  The handle Bump 4 Jesus is the film editor and he has a short conversation  that doesn't go into any detail with a Cherokee guy by handle Capt. Kangaroo who played flute at the opening ceremony of the event and who ended up disturbed by what he saw...these are the relevant posts.

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Capt. Kangaroo:
Re: GrandMother Drum Quote

I am cherokee and played flute for the opening ceremonies when the drum was brought to Adelaide South Australia. It is quite the drum but a few people got sick when they layed under it while they were beating it. "not too bright"

As I honored the drum I also cautioned Sarah as I saw corruption in their circle. Some of the Aboriginals here threatened to destroy the drum as they saw it as well.
It wasn't long after a certain incident happened ( I won't mention ) that one of the girls traveling with the drum died from a Brown snake bite.

Their circle was broken and things turned against them here.
I was very disapointed.
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Bump 4 Jesus

Re: GrandMother Drum Quote

Hello Capt,

As the editor of this film I am very familiar with what you talk about in Australia. This teaching is a major part of the film and continues to tour. For many the medicine of the GrandMother drum can be very intense, especially the first time around here medicine. However I can speak my truth in saying that I have seen many healed by the sacred beat of the drum and the crystal inlay.

Thank you all for your comments.
 
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Capt. Kangaroo

Re: GrandMother Drum Quote

It seems that no matter how good your intentions are when you get groups of people together to do good things, there is always deliberate infiltration from dark souls. One must be careful who they let into the circle even though it is supposed to be where we all belong together.
There are many witches, shapeshifters and tricksters who flock to these things to feed.
Learn to recognise them and protect yourselves.

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Bump 4 Jesus

Re: GrandMother Drum Quote

Thank you for your wisdom Capt Kangaroo.

I do not tour with the drum, I am the editor of the film. I do go see and play it whenever possible. It is generally here in AK for half the year and on the road the rest of the time.

Blessings to all.
 
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Capt. Kangaroo

Blessings to you and keep the sacredness alive. It is the most powerful drum I have ever drummed. It was a very emotional experience when we took the drum to Camp Coorong and exchanged flags with the Narangderi tribe and Elder Uncle Tom.
One of my concerns at the time was that things were split up into womens and mens business for the most part and when we made specific plans for the mens group one day. We ( the men ) were completely ignored. The entire group were women who traveled with the drum and they took complete control.
I think when men and women are split up and one or the other is not allowed in the circle, then there is something to hide.
I have this argument with others who do not allow women to smoke the chunupa or enter a circle during their moon cycle.
When a woman is on her moon cycle, her intuition is stongest. Is this the real reason why they are not allowed. For fear they might find truths the men don't want them to find?
When asked, the reply is always " They're too powerful"

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more Capt. Kangaroo:

Re: GrandMother Drum Quote

Is Saraj still leading the drum and touring. She looked very weak and unhealthy last I saw her. I hope she is doing better.
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There's more on there....but it doesn't surprise me that  some of the people that lay underneath instrument get sick.  Doesn't surprise me at all.  It's kind of like laying down next to a lightning rod in a thunderstorm waiting to get hit.

Just watch yourselves everyone.  Keep safe.
Superdog

[mtig49]

she spoke well of Native American people

no one says she is not a good speaker. that's how she makes money my talking a good game.  But for some people thats all they do just talk . As you start to see many native people have spoke out about what she is doing but she would not hear. It is  fun that she talks well of natives but her actions paints a deferent picture.  She can talk all she wants but it the is actions  that we do that shows what is really in our hearts. 

[Jim]

Delated by Jim

[Half-Wolf]

Jim:
I keep hearing that she speaks of our pain.  Yet the pain we have is the miconceptions of who we are.  These miconceptions come from people like Ms. Hozwarth and her ilk.  They serve to propagate the stereotypes.  If you want to learn of us, do not go see someone who does not belong with us, come and ask us.  Who we are is not written in a book or seen in dream or a vision.  Who we are is written in our hearts, our very being.  Do not mistake our humility and respect for lack of intelligence or cultural identity for it is not, it is our teachings and our way, it is the thing people do not understand and yet take for granted.  Because of this way they think they can take what they want from us and and use it to their own ends because we have no pride in who we are.  We will not sit still but will stand for all that we are.  Our word is our bond and our word is honor.  Without honor a person is lost.  Honor means respect and pride, doing that which you say.  We have said we will not let any more be taken from us.  If you want to know about us, you must come to us and stop going to "false gods", stop going to people who say they asomething they are not.

[matt e]

for those who support W.E.M.W. 

  She says the Grandmothers of many nations came to her and told her to make this drum and use for healing and reconciliation.
 Problem- she is white.
 The Grandmothers would know that sending a white woman to do this using clearly native spirituality would not promote reconciliation and healing. They would know their people would never stand for such a thing, and would fight against it which would defeat the stated purpose.
 IF they really decided that she was the person they wanted to do this, they would have gone to the elders and healers of their people and informed them of their choice so they could offer guidance and support. This obviously never happened. conclusion- 1.she outright lied (which after seeing the many other lies she has propagated) is in my opinion, correct. or 2. She was deceived by spirits claiming to be the Grandmothers of the various nations.

  She did ritualistically rub blood from a human on the drum. there are two basic reasons for human blood in a ritual 1. sacrifice 2. to create a connection to a person.
 using someone's blood without permission from the donor for either reason is an act of evil.

 The native spirituality is not available to everyone. it is a part of them like an arm or leg is part of the body. anyone from outside their communities could not begin to understand the true importance of various ceremonies on a spiritual level. Some of you claim that you should be able to benefit spiritually from it. Ok, are you willing to give up your current life, and go live as one of them? This can often mean living in abject poverty. Are you willing to do this for say.....20-30 years?
 I thought not. But that is what would be required for you to begin to really understand, as well as learn the language, because they must be done in the proper language, pronounced properly, and performed by those who have the proper knowledge, understanding, and selflessness to give themselves completely to the people they serve, with no material benefit.  Of course, you probably would not be willing to do that either.
 
 By the way, believe it or not there are things far more valuable in this world than money.
 funny, those who claim that it is ok to charge people for spiritual teachings ignore the basis of every major religion "freely you have received, freely give".(quote from the Bible, but similar sentiments are found in all the other religions)
     real healers do not charge. real psychics do not charge. real clergy(priest, minister, rabbi, etc.) do not charge. the only people charging for their services are eventually shown to be frauds.
 The real ones consider it an offense against the ONE who empowered them to lead, heal, guide, and help others. 
 If you want to know something about a people group, go ask them, do not get your information filtered by someone else.
 
 

[taraverti]

Jim,

No she has not spread the word. NO SHE HAS NOT SPREAD THE WORD. She has spread lies. Why do you refuse to believe this? Yes the world is thirsty, her fountain is poison. It's based on lies lies and more lies. And great disrespect for what she claims to honor.  I'm sorry if this shatters an illusion for you, however, in my opinion, better to shatter the illusion and thus be freed to seek the real thing, than to mistake the poor immitation for the real thing.

You quote Rumi.  Better you dive  into those deep waters than chase after fanciful illusion. Seriously.  You could study Rumi for a lifetime, be immersed in great joyful deep spirituality 24 hours a day, and still have only scratched the surface. And you wouldn't have hurt or disrespected anyone or stolen anything.

The stealing and the misrepresentation and the greed taints it to the point that you'd be better off with no spiritual teachings than these twisted ones. They are damaging on a spiritual level, BECAUSE of the deception and disrespect.  I for one can FEEL the wrongness in it.

Go read some  more Rumi and then open your heart and really listen with your heart to what is being said here.

I wish you well,

Nona

[Jim]

"Why do you refuse to believe this? ", your right, and I do believe you, just trying to find some good in all of this, perhaps there is none after all. I felt obliged to say something, I do appologise if I have offended anyone, I have had my say, thanks and good luck to you all.

[mtig49]

Jim its not that you have offended anyone, its we wish to educate people about this.

[taraverti]

Jim, one very good thing that has come out of this is that you are a more enlightened person for it.  I don't want to be presumptuous, but I see you farther along your own path because of your experiences with this. That alone is a great thing, I believe.

Multiply it by that unknow number of others who are now more aware.  Every individual who now sees the truth has been somehow enriched by it. They have gained a depth of understanding.

So individuals have grown and there is now more truth in the world.  In addition of course to the curbing of Suraj's activities.

A very trite cliche just came to me .. appologies in advance .... you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs ..... <groan>

Nona

[Superdog]

Jim....if you want to find the good I'll give you the picture as I see.  This is the good that has come out of this.  Holzwarth's actions have taken the new age propogation of our communities' spirituality to a new height.  As a a result we've taken a real turn from sitting back and allowing it to happen....... There's a tidal wave of energy that's been building up for a long time and it's hitting us all.

If you've ever looked at the history of any people that have been persecuted because of ethnicity or religious belief there's a theory that sums up the results of those persecutions called "collective trauma".  Collective trauma results in all the negative social aspects we see today.  Alcholism, low self-esteem, drug abuse, child neglect, being ok with poverty...those kinds of things.  It's a vicious cycle that continues until they either give up and lose their identity to escape the negative social constructs or turn it around by holding on to the collective ways of healling....namely spirituality.  

A good example of this would be Jewish people.  Persecuted inhumanely at times....they survive and thrive because of their devout faith to their religion.  This turn to faith allows them to heal....the preservation of Judaism against extraordinary odds brought them back from the brink several times.  

The Irish population....after invasion, famines and mass migrations away from their homeland thrive today because of a strong turn in the 1920's to strenghthen their language, customs and local traditions through the promotion of their traditional music and dances.

So the good that comes out of this is read here...a seed of Native people here RECLAIMING the things that will ultimately bring us back.  

But that certainly doesn't excuse Holzwarth.....the fact that she just "doesnt' get it" should be proof to you that you learned nothing from her.  The best con artists are the ones that convince their marks that there's no way it could be them.  You'd never even know you got conned.  Holzwarth's been pulling this off for years.....her actions are proven to be criminal.  You got ripped off yourself....doesn't that breach of your trust burn you a little???  If it doesn't can I sell  you a bridge???  If you're just gonna support lies and fraud why not send it to me....    I could sell you two bridges a week if you wanted and then you could drive back and forth across the country and stand on the bridges you own and declare to the world that they are yours and everyone must stop their vehicles halfway across and stand on the bridge and bow in honor of you.  You can paint them all the colors of the rainbow and sign your name on them in HUGE letters.

Oh wait....these bridges aren't mine to sell....I almost forgot...well.....I already sold them....maybe if I speak well of the real bridge owners they'll say "ok....it's your bridge"

or maybe......

We could all just leave the bridges alone......we could just be happy they are there and we could appreciate the job they do....we could use them as they are meant to be used rather than painting them neon green and labelling them with new names and creating new functions for them that don't exist......they're there for a purpose and they serve it well.....all the rainbow colored paint in the world isn't gonna improve their function....it's just another mess that's gotta get cleaned up so it can do its job.

[Half-Wolf]

The Detroit area is the host to many different Native Americans from all walks of life and several different Nations, all live here in peace and harmony.  It is seldom told of the quiet ways in which these people live, but the blatant abuse of their culture needs to be stopped and the Detroit area appears to be an initial ground for this fight.
Rachel Holzwarth, aka MaAnand Suraj, aka Suraj Holzwarth, aka White Eagle Medicine Woman, was forced to relinquish her eagle feathers to Fish and Wildlife Friday, May 2, 2008, during a meeting in Troy, Mi.  The standing room only meeting was held with ~100 Native Americans from several nations in live attendance and an untold number via teleconference from across the continent.  These people were protesting this woman’s use of our religious ceremonies and sacred items. 
The National Director of the American Indian Movement (AIM), Dennis Banks, wishes to make a statement to the people of all cultures and nations regarding this and similar issues.
Our ceremonies and spirituality are the last thing we have; the only things that haven’t been completely taken away.  It is time for us to retake those final descriptions of cultural identity.
All references to our ceremonies and cultural practices are not be performed by any non-native people who are not fully accepted by our communities.
All AIM Support and AIM National Chapters are to be vigilant in their duty to forestall these actions by any person portraying themselves as “shamans??? professing or portraying native American customs.
AIM is in full support of the actions being taken by the Michigan Chapter to stop this woman and make notice to any and all practitioners that AIM is now standing against this cultural theft.

[Jim]

Delated by Jim