Nuyagi Keetoowah Society of Pomona NY

[JosephSWM]

Here is the address of the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society.

http://www.nonprofitdata.com/organization-details.phtml?cmd=133569930


I tried clicking on the link for more information about the June 25th event at thier stomp grounds. I guess I will write or call the Temple of Understanding to get the adress of the grounds. Might be worth the trek beforehand to see what is there.

As I was browsing through the many names listed in the Temple of Understanding's Council of Trustees I came across this one - Chief Jake Swamp. Found the following at speakoutnow.org

"Chief Jake Swamp (Wolf Clan of the Mohawk Nation, Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy) is a respected spiritual leader who has participated in crucial Native American struggles including the 1970 takeover of the Bureau of Indian Affairs office in Washington DC, settlement talks after the Wounded Knee occupation and the 1978 Longest Walk. He has represented Indian peoples in international forums including the United Nations. In addition to sitting on the grand council of the Iroquois Confederacy, Swamp served as Director of the Akwesasne Freedom School. For the past two decades, he has traveled extensively, planting trees for peace and spreading a powerful message of peace and environmental education. "

I do know that these stomp grounds were given to this group by a Mohawk family but I doubt the connection. I don't know a thing about Jake Swamp or speakoutnow.org maybe someone else does. I just was looking at the trustee names for anything familiar or "Indian" like.

Joseph

[JosephSWM]

Found this interesting post about the history of the Keetoowah

http://www.mail-archive.com/futurework@scribe.uwaterloo.ca/msg03427.html

Here are som quotes from it pertaining to the Nuyagi Keetoowah.

* 1928: NUYAGI KEETOOWAH BEGINNINGS;   Sacred Fire secretly brought East to NJ.  6 year old future Nuyagi Keetoowah Founder designated future Keeper of Fire.

* 1972: TEMPLE ADANELO ADANUTO IS FOUNDED by future Nuyagi Keetoowah Founder as an umbrella "Temple"  for traditional religion without police harassment.

* 1983:  FIRST OPEN NUYAGI  KEETOOWAH SOCIETY (NKS)  unity meeting held in NYCity under Adanelo  Adanuto

* 1984: FIRST NKS COUNCIL determines the public climate now right for acceptance of NKS open incorporation.

* 1990: STOMP GROUND FUND BEGUN & FIRST NOT-FOR-PROFIT STRUCTURE for NKS recognized by NYState.

* 2000: COMMUNITY, BRIGHT FUTURE WITH NEW KEETOOWAH  RELIGIOUS SITE.



I may have posted this one already.

http://cherokee.meetup.com/31/members/

Here is one of the names listed.

"Yansv Gvnage (Black Buffalo) - writer, filmmaker and Scribe of the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society."

Googled his name and came up with nothing else.

Joseph

[VHawkins]

Joe, it's my understanding (I could be wrong) that Six Nations also have stomps, but they are not the same as Cherokee, but similar. But the word "Keetoowah" clearly implies Cherokee. But when you mention "Mohawk" it's out of my area of limited farmiliarity.

So I am stumped . . . They seem to be documented back many decades. A better person than I will have to figure it out.

You just put this squarely in the "more research needed" category, more than ever, for me anyhow.

"Temple of Understanding" sounds very "new age-ish", tho. Nothin' "Keetoowah-ish" 'bout that term. But when you are talking about Eastern Band Cherokee, or Mohawk -- well that's a style of baseball I never played. I never got outa little league.

vance

Vance

[JosephSWM]

Hoepfully within the next week I will have some first hand knowledge of this history which I don't think is real, just my gut feeling. Iroquois stomps are very different than ours.

I think Pat holley may also know a bit about this group and the Mohawk connection.

You know this quote reminds me of that movie about how they picked the Dalai Lama ( I think thats who it was)

* 1928: NUYAGI KEETOOWAH BEGINNINGS;   Sacred Fire secretly brought East to NJ.  6 year old future Nuyagi Keetoowah Founder designated future Keeper of Fire.

When I am done with this post I am going to write to someone or maybe many someones down in NC and see what they know. Of course if this fire was a secret than maybe no one will know. Its just this is kinda like a thorn in my side that needs to be taken care of, one way or the other.

Joseph

[JosephSWM]

Vance,

I started e-maiing to various people in NC and OK in the tribal governments asking for help in clarifying whether or not any of this is real. I decided that since Chief Smith's e-mail address was there that it coudn't hurt to e-mail him to so I did.

I never did hear back from the Delaware in OK about the Sandhill Indians.

Of course I will let you know what responses, if any, I get.

Joseph

[VHawkins]

Joe, way to go!

Chad'd be interested as I believe it was his family that brought the Sacred Fire to Oklahoma from back East . . . I might be wrong about that tho. He'd definitely be interested in someone claiming they'd "stolen" it.

Did you try Mike Miller? He "might" respond, sure hope he will . . . It's part of his job to look into things like this I believe. But when he is busy he might not say anything. He's at MMiller@cherokee.org. . . show him everything you found. I suspect he'll look into it, or get it to folks that will.

As for Pat Holley. He has always been a good to me.  I am not comfortable in bringing up his name without a link leading directly to him.

There is a link to DMW as plain as day, and I personally know DMW visited Six Nations where he might have met these Mohawk himself -- no need to go through Pat who is Tuscarora, not Mohawk.

Or maybe he realized too late DMW was using him . . . We all learn. I personally am gonna give Pat the benefit of the doubt. I think his heart's in the right place . . .

vance

[VHawkins]

Sorry Joe,

I reread your post. All you said was Pat might know something about it, not that he was responsible for it.

My mistake.

Vance

[JosephSWM]

I received one reply so far from all my e-mails. It was from the Cherokee Genealogical society in OK. They said they have never heard from my group.

My friend I talked with yesterday, I gave hi the Sandhill Indian info and the info that contains the "history" of the Nuyagi Keetoowah. I am waiting to hear what he thinks.

I can telkl you this though. He too does not like DMW. He knows that DMW not only has two different state enrollment cards, but has heard that somehow he got a "Mohawk" card. Yes, a fraudulent card.

This Keetoowah in NY really bothers him. He does not believe it to be real. He may go up with me on 6/25 if he can to see what we can see. He also said that Hranell claims to be their leader and so does DMW and the two are at odds with eah other.

Vance, I thought Pat may have some insight about DMW. I hold nothing against Pat since you shared with me things that cleared a lot up.

Joseph

[JosephSWM]

I received this reply from Wyman Kirk from the Cherokee Nation in OK to my inquire about the Nuyagi Keetoowah. I asked his permission to post it here and he most graciously said yes. A follow up letter from him follows this one.

-----------------
Hi Joseph,

Your inquiry came to me, and I'll respond as best I can. I believe another colleague of mine will be writing you as well (he has more detailed information, I believe, so I asked him to write you).

As to the specifics of your inquiry, I can answer some parts of it, but others will need to address what I am unable to provide info on myself (which is where my colleague, Richard Allen, will probably fill in the blanks for you). We do have several valid "Keetoowah Society" groups within the boundaries of the Cherokee Nation. The most notable, and historic, of these is the Keetoowah Society connected to the Stokes Smith Ceremonial Grounds near Vian, Oklahoma. While the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society website I saw last year is no longer in operation, I do not think that they have desisted in their claims of being "acknowledged" or somehow validated by the Stokes Grounds Keetoowahs. On that specific point, I can completely and wholeheartedly state that they have no authorized, valid, or legitimate association, connection, or affiliation to the Keetoowah Society. From my research I found that the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society (Nuyagi, as an FYI, means "New York") calls their grounds "Stokes" as well.

The Nuyagi Keetoowah Society, in my opinion, practices cultural appropriation at its worst; it is cultural theft, cultural abuse, and highly offensive to those who had to fight to preserve the traditional religion, traditional medicine, and traditional ways of life.

I have also seen mention of a "Dr" Sam Beeler who is a prominent member of the Sand Hill Band of Cherokee and Lenape (also known as the Sandhill Band of Indians of New Jersey), a group who had crossover members (including Beeler) with the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society. Beeler makes claims that he is a "traditional" Keetoowah, and he was listed at one time as the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society medicine man (or great elder or something of the like). Beeler makes claims to some sort of connection to the Oklahoma Keetoowah Society and the grounds at Stokes Smith near Vian, Oklahoma. This is patently false, and Beeler has no status as a member of any kind to Stokes Ceremonial Grounds (my uncle, Snow Fields, was the Secretary of the Stokes Grounds Keetoowahs until his passing last year, and one of his job duties was to keep the member roles). I can assure you that Sam Beeler was not now, or ever, a member of Stokes Grounds; nor did he ever apply for membership (to obtain membership, you must speak Cherokee fluently, have an unbroken matrilineal line/have a clan, and agree to the basic tenets of the religion). I can also say that he was not now, or ever, a member of the other Keetoowah grounds in Oklahoma.  (Here's a link to info on Beeler: http://sussex.edu/newsandevents/2003/11/200311073.htm). One final note on Beeler, he is apparently an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation and claims he is a fluent speaker of Cherokee (this information does nothing to counter the arguments against his claims, though I have my doubts as to his degree of fluency in the Cherokee language).

(continued)

[JosephSWM]

I'll state once again, for the record: The Nuyagi Keetoowah Society is not recognized in any way, shape, or form as a legitimate Cherokee organization in terms of a connection to the Oklahoma-based Keetoowah Society. Any claims that the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society makes about being "recognized" (or any language to the similar) by the Cherokee Nation, by any of the "real" Keetoowah Society fires in Oklahoma, is blatantly false and wholly untrue. It is entirely possible that Sam Beeler and/or other members of the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society have been to Stokes Grounds or Redbird Smith Grounds, but in no case would they have been granted membership or acknowledged as belonging to a "sister" or "joint" fire or grounds. This is, quite simply, not possible or plausible.

If the members of the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society form an organization using the name Keetoowah, wanting to learn about Cherokee history, and culture . . . to that I would say no one would probably object (well, there will always be those who object, but in general, most would not make an issue of it all). The particular problem with the Nuyagi Keetoowah Society is threefold: (1) Claims to some link between them and the Oklahoma Keetoowah Society, (2) Claims to "traditional" medicine knowledge, and (3) Claims to "cultural" Cherokee knowledge in terms of religion, beliefs, etc. Again, there is no objection to people wanting to find out about their past, their genealogy, the culture and history of their ancestors. In fact, I think such actions and self-seeking is a good thing, a valued thing, and I certainly encourage any such actions on behalf of individuals or groups devoted to this nature of activity. The Nuyagi Keetoowah Society, however, clearly crosses the line in terms of "appropriate" action by making false claims to legitimate themselves and their practices.

If this has answered your question, then I'm glad. If not, please feel free to contact me at this email address or the other contact info below. Thanks,

Wyman Kirk

As an FYI, it's only in English translation that we use the word "Keetoowah." The actual term in Cherokee is "Anigiduwagi" which in rough translation means "People of Keetoowah." One of the principle tenets of the original Keetoowah Society (as evidenced by the Redbird Smith and Stokes Smith Grounds) is the use of the Cherokee language as THE language of ceremonial grounds. It is even written in the by-laws of the society that English is prohibited at the grounds (though this is an informal rule, and people who speak English aren't thrown out or anything). My point here is just to say that any group making claims to the "Keetoowah Society" (at least in terms of the ceremonial grounds Keetoowahs) that does NOT use Cherokee as their language cannot, by this simple definition, be valid.

Finally, I think researching and documenting valid groups, shamsters, good people, fakes, and what-not is a very good thing. I applaud you and your associates' thoughtful, deliberate, and research based approach to this important topic.


Wyman Kirk
Cherokee Nation
Phone: 918.456.0671 xt: 2645
wkirk@cherokee.org


---------------------------

Sam Beeler is on the David Michael Wolfe side of this issue. He is listed in an e-mail from Wolfe as one of the council members.


Joseph

[JosephSWM]

This is the second letter that Wyman sent to me. I edited out a few things in the first few sentences but the rest is in its entirety.

---------------

Hi Joseph,

No, I wouldn't mind if you posted part or all of the email.  I will also note that I am not an expert of any kind, and that while I stand by what I said, I am certainly willing to listen to others much wiser than me on this (or any other topic). All of which is to say that if my friend and colleague Richard, or someone who does have recognized/valid authority on the matter (someone like Crosslin Smith for example, an Oklahoma Cherokee medicine man connected to the ceremonial grounds), has something different to say, then I would defer to their expertise. I feel pretty "confident," though in regard to the statements I made, at least in regard to the Stokes Grounds and Redbird Grounds.

Anyway, let me thank you and your colleagues again for the work you're doing. At Cherokee Nation, there are three of us who sort of monitor for Cherokee groups and individuals, and there always seem to be new ones popping up here and there. Most of them are valid, good, groups with good people, and if possible, we direct them to the Cherokee National Historical Society for information. However, there are a small number out there that tend to jump on our radar, and we sometimes feel compelled to address them in some form or fashion. This is not something we do well, however, because I do not feel that it is really the "business" of the Cherokee Nation, as a government, to either recognize or repudiate Cherokee "groups" or "individuals." CN only steps in (usually) when there are legal matters at stake (for instance, we had a situation where an unrecognized and sketchy Cherokee group wanted to take over all Trail of Tears historic sites in their state, and they wanted to offer their OWN interpretation of Cherokee history and culture as part of the site; while we did not object to them having their own version of their history and culture, we did object to them trying to take over federal and state historic sites to do it). My point is only to say that while the Cherokee Nation is often limited in addressing some of these groups, that is a tremendous source of power for those Cherokees who monitor this area like you and your friends. You can do what we really cannot, which is to provide information about those who abuse our history, our culture, and our way of life. Again, I thank you for this contribution you provide. If we, or I, can be of assistance, please feel free to let us know.

Wyman Kirk

[VHawkins]

Joe, you struck oil! a gusher . . .

These people are definitely FRAUDs pure and simple. I'm done with wavering on that issue.

David Michael Wolfe ought to go on the fraud list too.

What I don't understand the Mohawk connection --I was thinking 100 percent "fraud" and then that connection threw me for a loop.

I wonder if they knew what DMW was up to -- prob'ly not, just him seekin' recognition from as many peope as he could con into recognizing him. They were probably deceived, too.

I sure wish I could go up there with you to confront them.

Ya did good, Joe.

vance

[JosephSWM]

Vance,

Thanks. I am so glad that Wyman allowed be to post his letters. It is inportant for those Cherokee people trying to find there way and for those that want our ways to stay true and intact. I am looking forward to his collegues response to my inquiry (he said he would know more details.)

DMW connections to the Mohawk are that he makes a claim that a distant relative might have been Mohawk. Also, he is friends with a Mohawk who lives here in Baltimore.  

I know DMW is enrolled with the Echota Cherokee of Alabama and the Southeastern Cherokee Council of Georgia. I think (just my opinion) that he was using this person (the Mohawk) to try and get some kind of federal recognition for himself.

Vance, thanks for your caution in all of this, you helped me to be a bit more methodical than I normally might have been. Being patient ain't easy.

Joe

[VHawkins]

Well that explains the Mohawk connection. I wonder if he knows DMW and his pals are making all this stuff up . . . you'd think he'd know tho that there are no New York Cherokees.

Joe, you might as well put a lot of this information we have uncovered under "known frauds" if you have time. Unfortunately I don't have the time. Either under DMW or Nuyagi Keetoowah Society or both.

Vance

[educatedindian]

I'll tell Pat to post Wyman Kirk's entire first letter as a warning under Known Frauds. Then the link can be posted anywhere useful, or cited to anyone you think needs to see it. You might want to pass it along to papers or groups in  and arund Pomona.