Introduction.

[Jill]

Hello, I'm Jill.

I'm British and a Celt. I am a reconstructionist, which means that I am attempting, with others, to link back to our Celtic Tribal past, back in the Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age. I am a member of a group which demonstrates Living History at archaeological digs, mainly in the area around Stonehenge.

When I say 'Celtic', I am referring to the European Tribal Peoples. They were once as numerous as Native American Tribes and Nations, and with just as much diversity in dress, customs, languages, etc. Unfortunately, our customs were lost and subsumed by successive invaders, starting with the Romans. Our ancient ways are no more, although we still can find evidence of our tribal occupation in hut circles, hillforts and the Stone Monuments, such as Stonehenge, which still appear in our landscape.

Basically, I come to ask for help in rediscovering ancient cooking methods, treatment of hides and skins,  bone, antler, horn  working, techniques which our respective ancestors may have had in common.

Should you wish to know more about me and the group I belong to, please PM me for the details of the group. It is an open group, but with a limited appeal, as it is not New Age, but a serious attempt to recreate for the public an accurate picture of living conditions in Neolithic/ Bronze Age Europe.

I must admit to being fascinated by Native American Customs, as are many Europeans, seeing as we have lost our own ancient Tribal knowledge, but I am proud of my Celtic blood, a mixture of Breton(French), Welsh, Cornish and a tiny bit of Irish and would not insult you by trying to claim anything other than what I am.

I look forward to talking with folk on the boards and really hope to gain some knowledge of ancient techniques. I shall also keep watch for fraudulent Practices which may assist you in combating them.

Thank You,

Jill

[NanticokePiney]

  Have you ever examined the practices of the Romans that were borrowed from the Celts of Cisalpine Gaul? The "Priest" or "King" of the Wood" who guarded the temple which was located on Lake Nemi is fasinating. Especially since the discovery that a similar practice might have occured at Stonehenge.
  I was also fasinated by the practices left by Carthaginian tin traders in England such as the "Guardians of Bal's Gate" ( the origin of the name Ballinger or Billinges)

  Peace- Rich Joseph

[Jill]

Hi Rich,

I have read a little about it, mainly I believe, in Sir James Frazer's book 'The Golden Bough'. I'm one of those folks who will read anything, near enough, so it may have been in another book!

This was the one where the person who killed the'King' took his place, I believe, and became Guardian?

Unfortunately, many of our 'legends', put about by 17th, 18th and 19th Century Antiquarian authors, are just as 'fake' as 'Pay through the Nose' spirituality.

There are so many theories and legends about Stonehenge, and new ones erupt each year! Some are definitely Crackpot  New Age ones, others are more reasonable, but I think it unlikely we shall ever know for certain.

The Tin traders would have been mainly in the westcountry, Devon and Cornwall. Not sure about 'Bal's gate', possibly a reference to the setting sun, as Cornwall is the most westerly English county and most of the mines were near the Southwest tip of Cornwall.
I don't recognise Ballinger or Billinges or Billings as a Cornish derived name, but I could be wrong, but in the 18th and 19th century, the girls who washed the ore were called 'bal-maidens', so there would seem to be a link there.

Cheers, Jill

[Kevin]

Hi Jill. I remember the first deer I killed and my Dad told me I had figured out how to kill it so I could figure out how to skin it but he said he would help me butcher it once I got it skinned. I had this Lakota friend some years ago who would go out every once in a while and drop a mule deer and take meat to old timers in his area. Then he got a real good job and would just buy extra groceries and drop them off instead. It seems once a language is dead, many of the other things that go with it die too. Regarding hides, if I were you I would start with rabbits. Buy one, take it home, knock it in the head, figure out how to skin it, eat it then start working on the hide and a book could give you some good pointers on tanning Im sure. If you keep cats in your house, lop off a foot of that rabbit, tie a string to it and the cats will have alot of fun chasing it around. Jill Chasing Rabbits may not be a good  sounding Celtic name but it sounds like a fine moniker to me. Good luck.

[Jill]

Hi Kevin,

Here in Britain we are not allowed to hunt or kill our own meat, and as I am 60 with Fibromyalgia, the thought of 'Jill Chasing Rabbits' made me hoot with laughter! On a good day I can only hobble to my local store with the help of a stick!

Neither am I looking to NA Tribal Wisdom (I am secure in my Brythonic Celtic Tradition.) I don't approve of hijacking someone else's spirituality, it doesn't fit in Celtic lands.

I am not looking to actually demonstrate Brain tanning, but I need to be able to talk relatively intelligently on the subject. As the least able physically of our group, I get to sit with the exhibits and talk myself hoarse . Last year I found big gaps in my knowledge which need filling. Tanning was one of the questions asked, as was cookery without pots and pans. Celtic clothing is also asked often (mainly linen and brown Wool [no white sheep back then], and for the period, undyed). Folk also often ask why we dont have knotwork torcs and jewellery, but that was brought to Britain after the Romans left, and is a fusion of Iron Age pattern with later Norse additions.

The Roman invasion was about 2000 years after the time of our group demonstrations.

I have found a site for Antler and bone working now,  so that can be crossed off my 'wish list'.

I would appreciate any help in finding textual  information on tanning and ancient cooking methods.  Many thanks.

Cheers, Jill

[Kevin]

Some years ago when I was initiated into the Sacred Gopher Clan gang, the first honky  ever East of the Mississippi river to have  been so duly honored I might add,  I was given the secret name of Dances With Badgers - I was going to pass that moniker onto you if you weren't pleased with Chasing Rabbits but in light of your condition, it won't do - sorry to hear about  the Fibro. There is nothing wrong with a person getting their food from a grocery store -  the rabbits will love you for it.

[Jill]

Hi again Kevin,

Yep, I have to hunt my bunnies in the aisles of the Supermarket! Actually, if it stands still long enough, I'll try to eat it, foodwise!

Tried some pretty unlikely meats over the years,  I'll try most things at least once!

Cheers, Jill

[NanticokePiney]

   You might be able to find the "Foxfire" series of books, edited by Eliot Wigginton. They are actually about  Appalachian lore but much of it derives from the Scotch-Irish country folkore and folk craft.

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

In May, 1974, the Saskatchewan Indian Arts and Crafts Advisory Committee, in co-operation with the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development created a photographic essay, style of booklet, etitled "Smoke Tanning", "Traditional Indian Method of Preparing Animal Hides. 

There is no ISBN but this may be able to be obtained through the Indian and Northern Affairs Canada of the Canadian Government.

It is quite a good publication, which shows how much work is actually involved, in Smoke Tanning, in the Tradtional Cree method.

Ric

[wolfhawaii]

I am a member of a website/discussion board called Paleoplanet which has the information that will be helpful to you. There are forums there for a wide variety of ancient skills. the addy is www.paleoplanet.net. I am mostly on the primitive bows and knifesmithing forums but do pop in on other forums from time to time, same handle as here. Welcome and good "hunting".


I am not looking to actually demonstrate Brain tanning, but I need to be able to talk relatively intelligently on the subject. As the least able physically of our group, I get to sit with the exhibits and talk myself hoarse . Last year I found big gaps in my knowledge which need filling. Tanning was one of the questions asked, as was cookery without pots and pans. Celtic clothing is also asked often (mainly linen and brown Wool [no white sheep back then], and for the period, undyed). Folk also often ask why we dont have knotwork torcs and jewellery, but that was brought to Britain after the Romans left, and is a fusion of Iron Age pattern with later Norse additions.

The Roman invasion was about 2000 years after the time of our group demonstrations.

I have found a site for Antler and bone working now,  so that can be crossed off my 'wish list'.

I would appreciate any help in finding textual  information on tanning and ancient cooking methods.  Many thanks.

Cheers, Jill
[/quote]

[Jill]

Thanks, everyone for your help, that looks like great info!

Cheers, Jill

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Hello Jill, and welcome to the forum. There are lots of newage frauds running around in the British pagan community: I'm looking forward to hearing about the ones which no doubt infest your neck of the woods. You could start by visiting the strange annual pow-wow for hobbyists at Bush Farm, West Knoyle, near Warminster, where frauds tend to congregate. Native people in the UK have visited before and no doubt will go again.

I am attempting, with others, to link back to our Celtic Tribal past, back in the Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age. I am a member of a group which demonstrates Living History at archaeological digs, mainly in the area around Stonehenge.

Eh? The part of British history often referred to as 'Celtic' didn't start until around 500 BC, at the end of the Bronze age. Which archaeologists are involved in these digs? When's the next one?

When I say 'Celtic', I am referring to the European Tribal Peoples. They were once as numerous as Native American Tribes and Nations, and with just as much diversity in dress, customs, languages, etc.

Precisely because they were so diverse they did not all call themselves Celts any more than Hopi, Mandan or Kwakiutl people called themselves Native Americans. No one in Britain used the word 'Celt' to describe themselves until the 1700s. 'Celtic' and 'Native American' are both labels stuck on disparate groups by people from some other place or time, with an encoded racial meaning in both cases. For modern Celtomaniacs, the meaning of 'Celtic' seems to be 'more spiritual than - not quite as white as - those nasty Anglo-Saxons'.

By the way I look about as 'Celtic' as it is possible to look without actually tying a severed human head to my saddle, raiding neighbouring regions for cattle and slaves, throwing my valuables into rivers, or practising ritual murder. Which of those 'Celtic' customs do you incorporate into your living-history tableaux?

Here in Britain we are not allowed to hunt or kill our own meat

Where did you get that bizarre idea? It is just not true. If you have the landowner's permission and the correct firearms licence you can bag as many rabbits as your freezer will hold.

[Jill]

Hi Barnaby,

I was attempting (very clumsily) to place myself in a way that many would understand. I used 'Celt' as a cover-all to denote the  Brythonic folk I belong to, but felt that as I would be unable to tell one NA tribe from another, then the reverse might also be the case.  I am of the P-Celtic (Brythonic) subset, mainly Breton, with Welsh and Cornish.

I don't mind in the slightest you calling me on this, it is good to know you don't automatically trust. last year I was invited by friends who go to Bush Farm, (Hobbyists)  but last year it was rained out by the British weather  on it's original dates and was reorganised for a date I couldn't manage to attend, as I was busy elsewhere.

One year I should like to go see it, I would particulary like to see the competition dancing. That would be all I would be interested in, however.

Yes, I made a mistake, the People of the Neolithic/ Early Bronze Age were not Celts (but see above for my reasoning), and the Bronze Age in Britain was fairly short, until the Iron Age came in. I am still quite a beginner at the Living History Demonstrations, and haven't quite got my dates right, but I try. This is one of the reasons I came here, to hopefully gain knowledge of techniques from peoples who are closer to their roots that I am. No insult is intended.

The digs are organised by Sheffield University, under Mike Parker Pearson, and results are published at The Riverside Project on the University's website. I believe they started in 2003, and the Age of Bronze Group have been demonstrating there since 2005.
The Age of Bronze Group is an Open Yahoo Group, easily found via Google. It had only been going a few years, and is not big, but is growing. Please feel free to look around, there are photograps of us there.

The digs tend to take place in August until mid September each year and are expected to last ten years in total. The Open Days are usually around the late August Bank Holiday Weekend, and the second weekend in September.

I did attempt to explain that I was using the term 'Celtic' in the same way that the British would use the term 'Indian'. as an Umbrella term, as I wasn't sure if folk would understand me using names such as Silures, Dobunni, Durotriges, Atrebates, Regni, Parisii, Iceni, Trinovantes and Briganti.  Normally, I wouldn't use the term 'Celt' at all.

We do not incorporate any of the head collecting, cattle raiding, or human sacrifices into our demonstrations (not tableaux, please). We attempt to show techniques including cookery, flint toolmaking and use, some cast bronze and copper items, Pot and beaker making, spinning, examples of old grain types, such as emmer, spelt and einkorn wheats. coracle manufacture, clothing such as pampootie footwear, sprang hairnets, etc. the University has an exhibition of artifacts found onsite, separately.

As we only have a short time each year we are trying to find a way to prefabricate some wattle walling, in order to show  how it could be daubed, to make it suitable for a hut wall, for instance.

As to hunting, it is not for the ordinary person in Britain. Our Gun laws are very restrictive, and to get a shotgun licence you have to prove a demonstrable need, not the easiest thing to do these days. Alternatively you have to be a member of a sporting gun club, which means Big Money.  Landowner's permission is, as you say, also necessary. Handguns are totally banned from public use. Bowhunting is Illegal.

As I said, lightheartedly, I hunt bunnies in the supermarket. Lol.

Well, I hope I have answered the points you made, and reassured you as to my sincerity in coming here, I am struggling with increasing my knowledge of the Neolithic and early Bronze Age in Southern Britain, and hoped that somebody here might be kind enough to help with Websites, etc to help me, and the group in general.

Cheers, Jill

[Defend the Sacred]

I'm British and a Celt. I am a reconstructionist, which means that I am attempting, with others, to link back to our Celtic Tribal past, back in the Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age. I am a member of a group which demonstrates Living History at archaeological digs, mainly in the area around Stonehenge.

Croeso,

The living history people are usually called re-enactors here in the States. I'm of the school that someone isn't actually a Celt unless they speak a Celtic language, or grew up in a family that very recently spoke that language and still maintains most of the traditional customs of the communities that have preserved the Celtic languages.

Ydych chi'n siarad Cymraeg?

The groups here and in the Celtic Nations that use the term "reconstructionist", unless it's discussion of an archaeological reconstruction, for instance, are usually talking about polytheistic reconstructionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheistic_reconstructionism . I'm one of those types, and we're not just looking to the distant past, but are involved in the living cultures, as what has survived is a better starting point than the distant past. But, perhaps it's just a difference in terminology. Are you both a religious reconstructionist and a historical re-enactor?

I'm glad you're able to report on what the hobbyists are doing in England.

But I'm also a bit unsure as to why you think this is a good site for learning about neolithic crafts in Europe.

Sl? inte,

-Kathryn

[Jill]

Hi Kathryn,

We aren't re-enactors, because we don't roleplay.  We have plenty of re-enactors in Britain, whose groups, such as Brigantia, get taken on to do extra work in films and TV, but we don't get into that.

Not all born and bred Welsh or Cornish folk speak their native language here, as for many years, when I was young it was forbidden in schools. Nowadays it is allowed, but still there is a lost generation of Welsh speakers. Cornish has had to be reconstructed, my mother tongue, Breton, is horrendously difficult, and my parents refused to teach me, as they thought it would not benefit me in working life. My loss, unfortunately.

I am currently trying to learn Welsh, as an alternative, with the help of younger cousins, who do speak it. At the moment, I am struggling with pronunciation, and writing it is still somewhat beyond me.

Unfortunately, Britain and the States are two countries divided by a single language, (English). I understand what you are saying however, and I would like to offer you, in turn, a website, www.caerfeddwyd.co.uk

Personally, I am Animist rather than polytheist, and am active on the website I just offered. Most of the members Of Caer Feddwyd are polytheistic, and trying to find a way to reconcile the Ancient with the Modern (Not the headtaking or the ritual sacrifice aspects, we acknowledge they happened, but do not think they would be understood or acceptable in the 21st Century, Lol!).

I didn't  for one minute expect that anyone would be able to help me with actual neolithic crafts, but I was hoping that I could be pointed towards websites which could help me. This, as it happens, has happened, other members have pointed me towards useful sites already.

As I have already said, I intend no insult to anyone.

Dywlc en fawr (spelling)

Bore da,  Jill.