Author Topic: Question About Cherokee Medicine People  (Read 14842 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« on: April 01, 2008, 12:52:53 am »
Got this one in the mail. I answered best I could but thought it best to pass it on. I'm pretty sure our Cherokee members (and some others) know more than I do on this.

Below is the email, followed by my limited answer.

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I'm writing a novel which tangentially touches aspects of the Cherokee of North Carolina. The mother of the main charcter is half-Cherokee and the main character is one-quarter, atlhough he has relatives on his mother's side who are full-blodded Cherokee and live in the town of Charokee in the Appalachians Mountains of North Carolina.
 
While I am able to get some information on the Cherokee language and other aspects of their lives, I haven't been able to find anything on, for lack of a better term, Medicine Men within that particular tribe.
 
I realized from reading websites by Native Americans that there is a worry that when they are portrayed in the media, the characters are often misleading or stereotypical.
 
The character that is the full-blooded Cherokee is certainly not stereotypical of anything. He is a minor character, but he supplies a major bit of exposition that has to do with the plot. He is what his half-Cherokee first cousin calls a "walking contradiction." In some respects, he resists assimilation into the larger culture. In other respects, he is very assimilated.
 
What I'm writing you for, is that the cousin is a brilliant but absent-minded person, who, among a long list of diverse accomplishments, is said to have been trained as a shaman, although the main character doesn't know what that really means. In reading another site, I realized that "shaman" is sometimes not considered accurate by some authorities, for people who have visions or some kind of extrasensory abilities. But Medicine Man doesn't seem much better.
 
I guess what I'm really asking, would Native Americans who are very adept at living in both the Indian and White worlds, even use terms like that?  I suppose one of the things I really need is the Cherokee word for such a mystic, which I can write phonetically and explain in English. And is there someone you trust who would know specific aspects of what such a person in a Cherokee culture (as opposed to Sioux or Navajo) might practice to have a vision or seek guidance for another? (In the story, as written, he foresees some danger looming before the main character, which, will eventually shown to be true.)
 
None of this is to be long and drawn out, but it is a way to show that this character, who is brilliant but scattered in his conversations, and technically trained in his profession, also has legitimate and valuable insights from his native culture that he uses to try to help his friends and relatives.

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Hello,
I'm not Cherokee, and thus am speaking as an outsider. But since Cherokees are very often lied about, these kinds of questions come up quite a bit.
 
Most Cherokees are Christian, usually Southern Baptists. Many of these Cherokee Christians also consider themselves traditionalists at the same time. While there do remain quite a few herbal healers, there's not really anything like a shaman. By some accounts (anthropologist James Mooney, who remains controversial) the Cherokee killed off all their medicine people back in the eighteenth century.

Not being Cherokee I would not want you to consider what I say the final word or definitive. With your permission I'll repost your question. I can leave your name off if you like.
Al Carroll

Offline wolfhawaii

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 07:23:51 am »
OK I will take a stab at it....prefaced by the statement that my limited knowledge is based on my own experiences and ideas formed as a result of them. I do know a number of individuals who are traditional spiritual healers. Some are influenced by Christianity while others are not. While it probably is true that most Cherokee are Christian, there is a devoted core who still carry out their Original Instructions ( ie not Christians). These spiritual people have a name they are called in Cherokee but i prefer not to share it as this is one way to weed out frauds. There are some who use this word but improperly as they use the plural form for singular. I am not sure that anything productive can be accomplished by sharing this kind of knowledge with a writer for a fictional work. There is some material out in the public domain but a decent researcher would have found that already perhaps, so I question  the need to come here asking those kinds of questions. What is really being sought?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 07:36:38 am by wolfhawaii »

Offline LittleOldMan

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 09:52:17 am »
I believe that it would not be appropriate to  use any term.  I also believe that it would be best to leave things such as this very much alone.  The writer should find another way.  Note: There are many in the Christian world who walk with the Creator each day.  Some are very powerful in spiritual matters.  Try this side of it  just look at the prophet Daniel.  "LOM"
Blind unfocused anger is unproductive and can get you hurt.  Controlled and focused anger directed tactically wins wars. Remember the sheath is not the sword.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2008, 01:16:38 am »
These spiritual people have a name they are called in Cherokee but i prefer not to share it as this is one way to weed out frauds. There are some who use this word but improperly as they use the plural form for singular. I am not sure that anything productive can be accomplished by sharing this kind of knowledge with a writer for a fictional work. There is some material out in the public domain but a decent researcher would have found that already perhaps, so I question  the need to come here asking those kinds of questions. What is really being sought?

I agree. I think giving a writer of fiction this information will just give more ideas to frauds and fantasy-prone individuals.

Offline V Hawkins

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 08:19:53 pm »
This is a topic that I have been frustrated with for many years.  I am frustrated with the FAKE Cherokee history and FAKE tribes that are all over the internet. For many years I have struggled with little success to educate people about these fake tribes. Of course is it very easy to prove this history is revisionist history and is based on false statements, but it is difficult even still, to get people to stop creating these false tribes and made up histories. A Dr. Richard Allen -- official of the Cherokee Nation, once wrote the following, and gave permission for it to be recoppied as many times as is necessary, if it is copied "as is".

I was pretty sure it had been coppied to NAFPS website in the past so I searched and found it -- I am copying and pasting it here as a refresher. Part of it covers the topic you are pondering. I believe his words are the only true words you will find, on the internet, about this topic.

Dr. Allen said --

===================================================

Greetings --

The Cherokee Nation is overwhelmed with those charlatans who fraudulently claim to be shaman, spiritual leaders or descendents of a Cherokee princess.

Such individuals make such claims without ever having lived within the Cherokee communities. They claim to be descended from some nebulous and mysterious ancestor who was from "a reservation in North Carolina" (there is only one) or "a reservation in Oklahoma" (there are none). The ancestor is never just a plain ordinary everyday Cherokee citizen but a "Cherokee Princess," a "Cherokee Shaman," or a "Cherokee Pipe carrier" none of which actually exist or ever have. Those who claim to be "shaman" do not reside within the known boundaries of the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma.

Cherokee medicine people and spiritual leaders are known to the Cherokee people and do not practice medicine for a fee nor sell "shamanic" lessons to anyone. They do not advertise their services through any form of media and certainly not over the internet.

Traditional Cherokee healers and spiritual leaders provide their services to the Cherokee people. A Cherokee medicine person or spiritual leader is fluent in the Cherokee language and would conduct any medical or spiritual practices by using the Cherokee language. Therefore, our medicine people are those who were born of a Cherokee mother and a Cherokee father and would have been reared within a Cherokee community speaking the Cherokee language. Our traditional Cherokee healers and spiritual leaders are humble people and would not present themselves as such nor "hang out a shingle" so to speak.

Cherokee medicine people are acknowledged and recognized by members of the Cherokee community as effective healers and leaders. It is the recognition of the Cherokee people that validates these persons as medicine people and healers not self-proclaimation. We may provide them small gifts, a token amount of money or foodstuffs in payment for their services. They do not charge for their services nor would they withhold their services when asked and they certainly would not prescibe payment by credit card.

Cherokee medicine people may provide services to recognized members of other tribes or may provide services to non-Indians who would seek them out for treatment, but certainly would not mix their spirituality or medicine with that of other nations.

Cherokee medicine and spiritual practices do not include tarot cards, palmistry, psychic readings or sweatlodge ceremonies.

One may assume that anyone claiming to be a Cherokee "shaman, spiritual healer, or pipe-carrier," is equivalent to a modern day medicine show and snake-oil vendor.

You have my permission to print this response as is.
   
   Richard L. Allen. EdD
   Research & Policy Analyst
   Cherokee Nation
   P.O. Box 948
   Tahlequah, Oklahoma 74465

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 10:21:55 pm »
Thank you for posting this, V. I'll pass it along.

Offline wolfhawaii

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 03:25:48 am »
I give respect to Dr. Allen as he works very hard on behalf of the Cherokee Nation; if i recall correctly, when he originally put this statement out, it was phrased as his opinion and was not presented as an official statement of the Cherokee Nation. It is an extremely difficult task to make such a sweeping statement with unquestioned authority, yet many people perceive his statement as having unquestioned authority. Traditional Cherokee thought does not incorporate such absolutism, I have been taught. There are exceptions to his statement, even though his statement serves the purposes of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. An example is the statement that sweat lodges are not part of Cherokee Medicine. There is a very wellknown Cherokee medicine man near Tahlequah who runs sweat lodges as part of his healing practice. I have an elder who told me that if a Cherokee does it, it is a Cherokee thing. If you show up for healing with tobacco in one hand, and a piece of cloth in the other, you probably won't get turned away, but the quality of the healing has a relationship to what you give; it takes money to live nowadays and it is understood in the community that medicine people need to be given appropriate support. If you don't value what you are given by the healer it won't work. The statement Dr. Allen makes is very useful as a general guideline; individual practice may vary as Cherokee healers are not approved  or made by the CNO, but by the people they serve. My main concern here is that this statement gets reposted and quoted frequently by folks who use it as a statement carved in stone and who do not have a cultural perspective that allows them to see where variances may occur and what may be appropriate. It is probably best to be conservative when asking what is appropriate and as more experience in the communities is gained then accepted practices will become known. Though i am unenrolled, i am culturally affiliated and have many friends and respected elders in the CNO, UKB, and ECBI. I am not an authority, just a guy who is interested in cultural things and loves to play stickball. I have probably said too much but I have seen this discussion a lot and had to say my piece. Respect and aloha  to Dr. Allen and Vance for sharing his words again.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 03:52:08 am »
I give respect to Dr. Allen as he works very hard on behalf of the Cherokee Nation; if i recall correctly, when he originally put this statement out, it was phrased as his opinion and was not presented as an official statement of the Cherokee Nation. It is an extremely difficult task to make such a sweeping statement with unquestioned authority, yet many people perceive his statement as having unquestioned authority. Traditional Cherokee thought does not incorporate such absolutism, I have been taught. There are exceptions to his statement, even though his statement serves the purposes of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. An example is the statement that sweat lodges are not part of Cherokee Medicine. There is a very wellknown Cherokee medicine man near Tahlequah who runs sweat lodges as part of his healing practice. I have an elder who told me that if a Cherokee does it, it is a Cherokee thing. If you show up for healing with tobacco in one hand, and a piece of cloth in the other, you probably won't get turned away, but the quality of the healing has a relationship to what you give; it takes money to live nowadays and it is understood in the community that medicine people need to be given appropriate support. If you don't value what you are given by the healer it won't work. The statement Dr. Allen makes is very useful as a general guideline; individual practice may vary as Cherokee healers are not approved  or made by the CNO, but by the people they serve. My main concern here is that this statement gets reposted and quoted frequently by folks who use it as a statement carved in stone and who do not have a cultural perspective that allows them to see where variances may occur and what may be appropriate. It is probably best to be conservative when asking what is appropriate and as more experience in the communities is gained then accepted practices will become known. Though i am unenrolled, i am culturally affiliated and have many friends and respected elders in the CNO, UKB, and ECBI. I am not an authority, just a guy who is interested in cultural things and loves to play stickball. I have probably said too much but I have seen this discussion a lot and had to say my piece. Respect and aloha  to Dr. Allen and Vance for sharing his words again.

There is also this, which from the official CNO website and is a link that was sent to me by the CNO webmaster.

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/CulInfo/FAQ/83/Default.aspx

Quote
How do I find a Cherokee Medicine Man?
Although there are many practicing medicine men and women today, they do not advertise, nor do they solicit clients. In addition, they do not charge set fees for their services.

If you are a traditional Cherokee, who believes and lives the Cherokee way, you will be familiar with who these people are, or will know others who will lead you to one. Also, Cherokee acquaintances (aunts, uncles, neighbors) may refer you if they are aware of your need.

We are not at liberty to suggest such an individual.

I would guess this is about as close to an official opinion as anyone is going to get.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 03:54:27 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline wolfhawaii

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Re: Question About Cherokee Medicine People
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 04:30:41 pm »

Also from the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma website:


Information provided in the following Culture pages are provided mainly in part by the Cultural Resources Center of the Cherokee Nation. For further info on subject matter please contact cultural@cherokee.org. please note that Cultural information may vary from clan to clan, location to location, family to family, and from differing opinions and experiences. Information provided here are not 'etched in stone'.