Ben Carnes and Eagle Mountain Spiritual Council

[Rattlebone]

 I am new to this site, and don't want to be speaking too much here yet until I get to know everyone.

  Still I would just like to say a few things here on this topic.

 A while back over on myspace I was reading a bulletin that was posted by an old friend of mine named Glenda Deer who most of you know. This bulletin was a piece written by Ben Carnes. I don't even recall what it was about now, but I do remember thinking what an awesome read it was. So I reposted the bulletin up, and those who read it from me felt the same way. I then spoke to Glenda about the bulletin and she  informed me that Mr.Carnes was on myspace and that anyone who liked what he had to say including myself should contact him, and see about getting added to his homepage. Well I did inform people they had that option and many of them took it from what I understand.  I myself did not send him a request to be a friend, but later on he did to me for what reason I don't know.

 I have spoken to him via myspace email a while back, and it was a great discussion. I enjoyed speaking with the man greatly. It only further increased my deep admiration for him. I have not spoken to him since, but I still enjoy reading what he has to say.

 There are a few people in this thread I admit I know of from other places, and we mutually dislike each other. However  I will concede that I fully agree with them in their support of Mr.Carnes. There is a feeling you get when speaking to some people, sometimes good sometimes bad. I have always felt nothing but good things about the man, and I know those here who know him or have worked with him in person know the truth that he is a good man doing a lot for the native community.

 That is all I have to say on this.

[glendadeer]

Good evening people....

I came on to check my messages and e-mails as I have been busy and have been offline since Thursday....I just returned home from a 2 day ceremony..we sat up all night praying for our people...ALL our Indian people...I was very humbled by the words of my elders, Uncles, Grandpa's, Grandma's, Fathers, and other relations...


People who know me, know what I stand for and what I am about...I am a simple Indian woman with a great love for my people...no matter what tribe...I am not book smart, but I am far from stupid...I was raised to respect others...I take a stand when I see wrongs being done...I learn things everyday...I read what is going on in Indian Country and I feel we have a lot of battles we continue to fight because of ignorance in the world...and I fight these battles to make a difference for the future of our people...for our children and grandchildren...and I will speak out if I feel it is wrong...

Being Indian is hard in this day and age...as it has been said before, being Indian is more than just a CDIB card...we are losing our traditional ways and it truly saddens me...I am not Lakota, so I cannot speak about the ways of the Sun Dance but I have attended and have respect for those ways.  What I can speak about it the charactor of Ben Carnes, and I have always had good thoughts and words for him. Ben has been an activist fighting for Indian people for as long as I can remember. I know Ben and his wife Cat personally and I consider Ben a brother. Ben is very genuine and sincere about his caring and concerns for all of us, as Indian people. Anyone who has ever heard him speak knows that he speaks from his heart. He is a Sun Dance Chief and runs a Sun Dance, and I am nobody to question this. I have never, ever heard anything negative or anyone ever challenging his role until this recent post. If Ben was a non Indian, and made these claims perhaps I would question this as well, but he is Indian.  If I felt his words were not genuine, yes I would question him even if he was Indian.  I see alot of other organizations seeking donations, and I see no wrong in this.  It is your choice to give. If you have questions about where or how the money is spent, ask the group. There is no need to publically question it unless you received a answer from them which you have concerns about or no answer from them at all. "Not feeling" it is not a reason.

I personally know David Hill and others who have commented on here as well. David is another good man, with rightous intentions.  I do not know "Walks" personally but I have read some of his postings here and others places I "lurk"...and I did recently after all of this, add him as a friend on another site. He is a friend of my brother Bens and family, therefore I trust and consider him a friend as well. I look forward to meeting him.

I try and stay away from drama...but I did send the Administator a few messages regarding all of this, along with my opinion on this matter. Like I said before, I am nobody to be questioning anyone but when it comes to family I do feel I have to say my 2 cents worth. One thing I have learned is that the internet can be a wonderful thing...it can also do a lot of damage...We are all different and unique in our own way...and we do not always have to agree with each other...and we, as Indian people always show respect to each other, in order to get respect...one must first show respect....

NAFPS is a good group....a lot of sharing of ideas going on... a place one can bring attention to true fakes, and nuagers out there...and I have learned different things on this site...and I enjoy sharing my ideas...

I am not a writer, and I tend to ramble....I am tired and have had no sleep...but I felt I had to add my say...and I appreciate your time...


I am not a Ben Carnes supporter...I am his sister.

[earthw7]

Thank you Ben for your kind words and Welcome

[chiefytiger]

Hau !!! I too know that Ben is a good man and I just got word this evening from a good source that Mr Kenny Frost is going after Ben for having a SunDance in Colorado ,He is questioning who taught Ben the Sacred ways of the SUNDANCE ... He states that hes going to prove that he's a fraud .  Maybe anyone who knows Mr Frost should let him know that Ben is a respected Sundance leader and someone who cares for the ppls .... like he wanted to prove that Arvol LookingHorse sold the Sacred pipe to the Japanese. But i have respect for Ben as a man an Sundance Leader ....
ChiefyTiger

[zoi lightfoot]

Just so we are all aware Ben Carnes is the current spokesperson for Leonard Peltier,for the same reason I am aware of the Brother Dave Hill,both decent,focused and great Bros I sure as hell would want at my back if i needed help.

[tachia]

I am posting not only for myself but also for “Mvskoke.Lady???, who cannot post in here anymore due to this very thread .. she asked me to include her in this posting .. .. ..
 it is important to admit when we are wrong! ..

“Mvskoke.Lady??? and myself both posted in support of ben carnes when this thread was first started in april 2008 .. in light of the great many things that have come to our personal attention about ben carnes, in the many months since this thread began .. we are both now adamantly retracting our previous support of this man, his wife and his organization, as have many others ..

speaking for myself, i simply cannot condone any actions that harm our peoples! .. we ALL have to speak up against the things that we know to be wrong and stand up for what we know to be right .. i had considered ben carnes as a brother and did not come to this decision lightly .. it was difficult for me to come to this decision about someone i had considered a friend and a brother .. yet even when someone that is close to you is doing things and saying things that you absolutely cannot condone, you must speak up! .. our first duty should always be to our peoples as a whole, and even if it is a friend that we see as causing harm to our peoples we are duty bound to speak out against that person ..  no matter how difficult that is for us to do .. .. ..

i will not get into a public argument concerning this man, his words and his actions .. i am merely retracting ALL previous support of him, his wife and his organization..  ..

wado equa
tachia

[bls926]

Just so we are all aware Ben Carnes is the current spokesperson for Leonard Peltier,for the same reason I am aware of the Brother Dave Hill,both decent,focused and great Bros I sure as hell would want at my back if i needed help.

Zoi, do you know either of these men?

[zoi lightfoot]

Firstly Dave Hill is known to every single long hauler out there envolved with Leonard Peltiers case,he's been actively envolved for decades,secondly yeah I have and do maintain direct contact with Ben Carnes.For the same reason.Is that what you wanted to hear direclty from me?Still doesn't change the fact I'd want them watching my back if i needed help,or the fact Ben is a colleague in the world of LPDOC.

[bls926]

Firstly Dave Hill is known to every single long hauler out there envolved with Leonard Peltiers case,he's been actively envolved for decades,secondly yeah I have and do maintain direct contact with Ben Carnes.For the same reason.Is that what you wanted to hear direclty from me?Still doesn't change the fact I'd want them watching my back if i needed help,or the fact Ben is a colleague in the world of LPDOC.

In other words, you "know of" David Hill and you're on the mailing list for LPDOC and receive the newsletters from Ben Carnes. You don't know either David or Ben. Zoi, you really shouldn't drop names like that, especially the names of people you don't even know.

[zoi lightfoot]

Thats one hell of a presumption on your part

[bls926]

Thats one hell of a presumption on your part

Not a presumption at all. I do know both Ben and David.

Like I said before, you really shouldn't name-drop, especially the names of people you don't know. Someone might call you on it.

[zoi lightfoot]

Exactly! You got nothing more worthwhile to be doing?

[tachia]

merely wondering ..

what are your definitions of "know" as used in reference to a person (ie: name dropping) .. ..directed to zoi yet indirectly to bls as well, cause you set me to wondering bls..  .. .. ??
do you .. ..
"know" these people on the  internet?
"know" them from things you have read?
"know" them from publicity about them?
"know" them cause you saw them at some event, and perhaps even spoke to them for a second or two?
"know" them because a friend of a friends, cousins uncle, knew em a long time ago?
etc .. .. i am sure you get the point ..

my opinion .. bottom line .. unless you "know" someone well enough to have spent several days in their home, and had them in your home, not just once but on many occasions .. unless you are on a first name basis, not only with them, but with the members of their family, their S.O.'s. hell even their animals .. lol .. in other words, unless THEY know YOU as well as you claim to know them you do NOT know them .. and dsl is correct in that it is nothing more than "look at me" name dropping to say that you "know" them .. ..

one of the people mentioned would not much like that he is being talked about ..
the other is very likely basking in the warm glow of the attention ..

IF you know these two people, you will know which sentence to ascribe to which person ..

ah well .. ..

[bls926]

one of the people mentioned would not much like that he is being talked about ..
the other is very likely basking in the warm glow of the attention ..

IF you know these two people, you will know which sentence to ascribe to which person ..

Tachia, I don't know either man that well; have never been to their home or had a cup of coffee with them. Was simply trying to make a point of how well Zoi Lightfoot knew them, if at all; since both David and Ben have stated that they don't know her.

Your last comment, the one I quoted . . . Yes, I do know "which sentence to ascribe to which person".

[glendadeer]

I thought this was a dead thread....but then you have to consider the ones who like to stir the the coals and get the fire started again...especially when they say they don't want to argue publically...

I do know both Ben Carnes (and family) and David Hill...Both have been in my home to share a cup of coffee...I have a lot respect for both of them and all they have done and do for the LP DOC and their stand they take in support of our Indian people, in general.  Both have dedicated their life to fighting for the cause...They didn't just wake the past year and decide they wanna make a name for themselves...

It's a damn shame that there always has to be some that feel the need to make a name for themselves on the coat tails of others...Always feeling the need to "do it a little better"...and want to make sure they are given credit for something that could not have been done with out ALL the people...Yes, publically they act all humble but it is not genuine...Never once have I heard either of these men try and take credit for anything they have spearheaded...they credit THE PEOPLE!

When you do something to help someone or for the cause...great! Sit back and be humbled by it...The Creator knows what's in your heart...and it means NOTHING if you have to go around and brag about it....because it's not sincere or genuine...In order to be blessed, one must be the blessing...

This is a new year..."give it up"...dayum...quit trying to beat a dead horse... quit fanning the flames...your just making yourselves look stupid....

Okay, I have had my say...and your right, I am nobody...and I do not claim to be anyone special...I am happy being me..

I have been away from a lot of things because of things going on with my health but yet, I still get talked about..but I just make like a duck in the rain...I just let it slide off my back..and consider the source..

I wish all of you good health, love and happiness for this is a new year..2009! yeah, even you haters...
We all have a special purpose on this earth...and I'm sure it's not wasting precious time bad mouthing each other....Me, I will just ignore you...