Ben Carnes and Eagle Mountain Spiritual Council

[Moma_porcupine]

Rattlebone, this isn't about bls926 or whether or not she may or may not have spoken to you in a condecending tone and if she did whether you may or may not have acted in a way which may or may not have deserved it. Personally I'm getting really tired of you derailing the real issues with petty personal ones which may exist only in your own imagination or interpretation of whats said.

Personally what I've seen is you repeatedly refusing to look at the real issues and dragging people into disputes that are completely beside the point inspite of having stuff repeatedly explained to you.  It seems to me if anyone is speaking to you in a condescending tone you've set that up for yourself by refusing to acknowledge the obvious and stubronly ignoring the actual issues .

I'm also noticing that you defend peoples connection / lack of a connection with a Native community if you are defending Ben's right to lead ceremonies for a mixed community but you try and discredit people by making an issue of their connection / lack of a connection to a native community if they question Ben leading ceremonies. I don't like that. It just seems manipulative .

And I have no idea what "principle" it is exactly you are so concerned about here.  Why is it you are so determined to make it personal about anybody who asks questions or gets close to trying to deal with the actual issues?

Personally i wish the mods would just ban you from this thread. Or maybe if you have to dispute people questioning what Ben's up to you could have your own thread to do so. 

The non issues you repeatedly bring to this discusion are getting really old.

[bls926]

The fact remains, even if we ignore the people who made the initial accusations, the initial questions still remain:

We don't know who supposedly made Carnes a Sundance chief, and they refuse to say.
The EMC still does ceremonies on Ute land without permission and with the opposition of elders.
EMC still has Nuagers within the group, a Nuager brought in by the Carnes themselves and doing Nuage ceremonies and supposed healing, and another Nuager promoting Nuage frauds on their website.

Those are all facts that exist independent of the people who initially accused the Carnes.

I knew that Frank Fools Crow gave Sundance to the Piscataway many years ago. They held their Sundance in Maryland up until 2005 or 2006. I've been told that Chief Tayac gave Sundance to Ben Carnes and made him a Sundance Leader. I wondered if the Piscataway had the authority to give the Sundance to anyone. Fools Crow gave it to them, but could they give it to someone else? According to the people I've talked to this week, traditionally they would not be able to give the Sundance to another person unless the Elders agreed to it. In this case it would be Lakota Elders, since Fools Crow was Lakota. Were any Lakota Elders asked? Did they get their permission? I don't know.

Glenda Deer

You question Ben’s credentials as an Indian, a Sun dance Chief and a warrior, that is quite arrogant and shows your ignorance. Well, you met Ben and you know he is Indian, but you were trying to cast innuendos in a bad way to plant seeds of suspicion. You question whether he is a Sun Dance Chief, but are you a Sun Dancer?? Are you, Bren? And is it even any of your business? Why do you need to stick your nose in matters that you aren’t familiar with especially in regards to the spirituality of another. If you truly knew about Sun dances and their different protocols, you were speaking well out of your league.


You already know this history, again from David Hill, but did you ever investigate by calling Chief Tayac about Ben and how his son placed this honor upon Ben? Ben didn’t ask for it, and was told that he couldn’t say no. What did Ben do? He did what he was told and stepped to the front of the line to carry that altar. I bet that you also didn’t know that Ben did not ask to Sun dance..... Chief Billy Tayac told him to Sun dance and that he should have already been a Sun dancer. What did Ben do? He began Sun Dancing, why? Because he respected the Chief who told him to dance. And is that any of your business...you aren’t a Sun dancer... it isn’t. But if you thought something was wrong, why didn’t you bring it to Chief Tayac’s attention? Let them investigate if there is any truth to these so-called “valid questions”. Traditionally, you don’t go outside to an Internet site of self-appointed crusaders/puppets and begin questioning anyone. It isn’t your place....

I don't think anyone has wondered why Ben started Sundancing. The questions have been about Ben holding his own Sundance. I sure hope Ben had fulfilled his commitment at the Piscataway Sundance before he started leading his own in Colorado.

Glenda Deer

There is over 14 pages of a thread on Ben, and not once have they come up with any proof, in spite of all the proof and leads to investigate right in front of their noses. Ben has never went and dignified their questions with an answer. Why should he? And who are the people hiding behind the fraud board that Ben should account to? No one that Ben should be accountable to. You should have called Chief Tayac, but then David already told you Ben is legit...but STIL you carry on.

As I said earlier, I find it telling that Ben came to NAFPS in April 2008 and posted two replies when Danielle was the only one questioning him. This time, when many have doubts and questions, he couldn't or wouldn't.

I took Glenda's advice and called Chief Tayac this evening. He will not discuss Ben Carnes.

Quoting my previous posts for context.

I thought I knew who had given the Sundance to Ben Carnes and made him a Sundance Chief; now I'm not so sure.

Cat Carnes told me about a year ago that Ben's Sundance was an extension or continuation of the Tayac Sundance; that the Tayacs had given the Sundance to Ben. Glenda Deer has stated recently that Chief Billy Tayac or his son "placed this honor upon Ben". Thought this was fact. If you can't trust a man's wife and his good friend, who can you trust?

I was told this past weekend, by a close friend of the Tayac family, that the Tayacs did not give the Sundance to Ben nor did they make him a Sundance Chief. He wouldn't say who did, but said it was not the Tayacs.

Glenda's advice to call Chief Tayac and ask him about Ben . . . Well, that didn't work out so well. Tayac refused to discuss Ben Carnes.

[tachia]

good to know this bls .. thanks for this info ..

i had been given so many different stories of how, and from who, carnes had acquired the title "sundance chief" that i did not know which one, if any, of them were true .. it seemed every time someone asked about it, the answer was different, even from the carnes themselves .. .. and when asked about the discrepancies, the answer was always: call tayac .. .. when an Elder i know did call tayac, he got the same as you did .. a refusal to even discuss carnes in any way .. tayacs answer to the refusal to discuss carnes: he did not want to "talk" about a friend .. .. why? .. if carnes is indeed a friend (and i believe he is) then why would tayac not want to set things straight for carnes? .. a refusal to speak about carnes perhaps speaks volumes?  .. idk, but that is the problem here, no one knows .. .. .. ..

seems to me (and others) that someone needs to do some talking to set some things straight once and for all .. ..

[NanticokePiney]

 Whew!!
  It took me two days, a two liter of ginger ale and half a chocolate cake to slug through this train wreck but I got a helluva education............
   

[tachia]

Whew!!
  It took me two days, a two liter of ginger ale and half a chocolate cake to slug through this train wreck but I got a helluva education............

lol .. no need for gas ex, tums, alka seltzer or the like? ..

[Walks]

***Latest attempt by Bennie Carnes to ride the shirt tail of LPDOC, for support of his own personal agenda***

Hold on to your pocket books everyone....He'll be throwing down the donation blanket and giving his "poor, poor, woe is me, the world is out to get me" speech, next.






Thursday, June 25, 2009
July 28th: Peltier goes up for parole and I go to trial
Current mood: confident
Category: Life
My life has been interspersed with connections to dates in history, as something significant was occurring in my life, there were other significant events happening at the same time. It is going to be an interesting facet to my book.


Not many people have been aware that my home was raided by the County Sheriff and the Colorado Air National Guard last September, or that an FBI agent came to my home, a few weeks later, on the pretext of searching for the whereabouts of the number 2 man on their most wanted list. Never mind that I hadn't seen that person in 20 years! I was charged with possession of a dangerous weapon by a previous offender.


At a hearing the judge stated his displeasure that I was being charged at all. He noted that the case report indicated my last conviction was in 1981 and that there have been no felony charges in the 28 years since then until now. He said that this was repugnant to him and that if it were left up to him, he know what he would do with the case.


There are a host of other issues involved in my case, but it isn't going to be brought up at trial. Did the sheriff manufacture his probable cause in order to protect a "confidential informant" who provided false information?


Earlier in the year (2008), I wrote a blog about Standing Deer. Within a month, someone who doesn't have Internet access advised me that I should be careful. It was explained that the spirit of Standing Deer came and said that if I kept the questions about his murder alive, they would send someone after me as they did to him. I kept this information to myself until I was interviewed by Govinda and Brenda Norrell when some of the people from the Longest Walk II came to my home for ceremony and rest. http:../../..www...earthcycles...net/..journal/..index.php?56


In August, I was asked to speak on Leonard's behalf at a human rights rally during the DNC, and before the end of the month, I was asked to join the newly formed Leonard Peltier Defense Committee. I knew that I could be a targeted by the feds, but a brother needed help in rebuilding a committee and a national network. He needed 33 years of work done in a short period of time. So I agreed, expecting to be harassed, but I hadn't expected to have them come so soon and with a helicopter.


There was some other interesting revelations that leads me to suspect something isn't right, but that is something that comes with what we do. And I am not easily intimidated, nor do I buy into stupid baiting games so often found on the net. My character was attacked by a couple of nobodies who used real Indian faces to hide behind. But they have since learned the truth and moved away from them. Then next came the eviction from my home that led to months of transition that still hasn't ended.


My case will hinge on the right of a person to posses a firearm for the purpose of defending his family, home and livestock. If most people don't know, I live up in the mountains with natural predators, including the two-legged ones. When I was Iron working, I was gone for 6 days of the week, and my wife was at home alone with our daughter. I have NEVER been charged or convicted of any crimes involving the use of firearms or a crime of violence. This defense is called an affirmative defense, and this will require the prosecution to prove that the firearms were for other purposes.


I was scheduled for trial on June 23rd, but I was notified last week that my trial was postponed until July 28th. Then the very next day, we got word that Leonard's parole hearing is now the 28th.


A month ago, I felt the parole was a formality to be exhausted in order to be considered for clemency by the president. Then for 12 days, I lost phone/Internet communications,.. and then the two generators I use for power croaked. When I was finally able to get back online and catch up, I found that there was a recent court decision that caused a shake up in the parole commission, and then suddenly - Leonard's parole hearing began to take on some real meaning.


We had challenged the FBI to a public debate to resolve their misdirections (i.e., lies), but they have not accepted, and all their rumblings have become a whimper as of late, but never underestimate them. They have promised that Leonard will never walk out of prison, and we should all view this as a valid threat.


Leonard has hoped that we could get a million letters to the US Parole Commission, but time is running out. If you haven't ever wrote a letter or signed a petition for Peltier, the time is now. All letters must be received by the parole board by July 14th, or they will not be allowed for consideration:


Parole commission letter for Leonard Peltier
Your name and
Address
[date]
United States Parole Commission
5550 Friendship Blvd
Ste 420
Chevy Chase, MD 20815-7286
Re: Leonard Peltier
Dear Parole Commission:
I am contacting you to express my views and support of Leonard Peltier and his upcoming review for parole. I am a law abiding, tax payer, and concerned citizen, and feel that based upon our countries morals, integrity, and support of humanitarianism.., the matter of Leonard Peltier’s parole and release is of paramount significance.
I feel that it is relevant to point out that Leonard Peltier has been incarcerated thirty-three years based upon what our very own courts have admitted was fabricated evidence, both withheld, and then later discovered to be tampered and questionable. These very courts have admitted that Leonard Peltier did not commit the murders of the FBI agents at the Pine Ridge Reservation in 1976. It is clear Leonard Peltier was persecuted based upon his beliefs and refusal to accept the injustices imposed upon the peoples at pine ridge during that time.
Because of these facts, I feel that our system has failed, and the continued incarceration of Leonard Peltier is a sad commentary of our government and the humanitarian values we profess to have for each other.
I express a deep hope that your commission will grant parole and release to Leonard Peltier. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
[Your name]




As for me, all I ask is that when you make a prayer for Leonard on his parole day that you remember me and my family also. I haven't worked since October, and have survived upon what I can do and the support of others. We may be homeless, but we are not landless as of yet. Nor will we be, even though we are about four months behind on our payments. I believe the Creator will continue to support me in my vision for the land. We are preparing for our Sun Dance ceremony and it will feel so good to be in the midst of it. Good people and good prayers for everyone.


July 28th will be a very significant and important day for Leonard and I. Both of our freedoms are at stake. If Leonard is denied, don't lose heart or give up, just intensify your efforts because this fight isn't over until Leonard is free.


If I am convicted and imprisoned, keep the focus on Leonard, I will survive somehow. I always have.


So just keep your thoughts positive for us on July 28th, and that day may forever carry a historical meaning for many of us. For the people, they will have succeeded in bring Peltier home before his birthday, and for me the 28 years I have been involved in Peltier's case will conclude, and I will be free to carry on with my vision.

[Walks]

Who else would start a support group, to support.....well, themselves?

http://www.myspace.com/bencarnessupportgroup

[Walks]

From the "Ben Carnes Support Group" page.......

".......• recipient of the 1987 State of Oklahoma Human Rights Award for advocating the rights of Native prisoners to wear their hair long.

• April 1989, organized a counter-celebration of the Oklahoma Land Run.

• Feb. 1993, testified on behalf of NAFERA (Native American Free Exercise of Religion) before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Albuquerque, NM.

• March 1993, testified on behalf of NAFERA (Native American Free Exercise of Religion) before the House Sub-Committee on Native American Affairs, Washington, D.C.

• June 1993, Int'l Conf. on Human Rights, United Nations, Vienna, Austria

• In 1994, traveled to Columbia as a delegate of a human rights group and met with Indigenous peoples, including Indigenous politicians, activists, former guerillas, and prisoners.

• Chaplain at April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombsite, counseling rescue workers

• August 2001, testified in opposition to the Akaka Bill before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Honolulu, HA.

I’ve worked with the Native American Rights Fund, Amnesty International, and the Oklahoma Department of Corrections, as a consultant to the agency and a spiritual advisor to Native prisoners. My human rights involvement has taken me to the United Nations in Austria, near the frontlines of the war in Croatia, and the mountains of politically unstable Columbia. "


Can any of this be confirmed?

[Walks]

http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=60994277&messageID=6543771882

[Walks]

Is this to be expected, accepted or in fact even tolerated from one who would proclaim himself to be a Spiritual leader of our Peoples?
This sounds more to me as the ramblings of a mad man who has finally lifted the mask of deciet and shows his true character.

How many people, desperate to connect or find some since of belonging, will climb aboard and go down with this sinking ship?

(For clarification, all my remaining words, in this post, will be in bold font.)

http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=46622425&messageID=6563879090&hash=MIG%2fBgorBgEEAYI3WAOgoIGwMIGtBgorBgEEAYI3WAMBoIGeMIGbAgMCAAECAmYDAgIAwAQIEX1oXZqlFCYEEHtRz1y4uTDXX4nMa5t1YCUEcNT6S9FqLqiFhziuRLSmpJ3c4gm2zhB1vhNiPR4dIAtLnSbQZgxT%2b8EzPpZLTFDsOjig6gR79M6M8xf5VWg5MtMTnAb6TNYgSI%2fHOw4a9iz93D%2bQ6dc%2bc0jDgoNikEw1fSMsL71VNbceN%2fiowZi4gt0%3d


-................................................................................-................................................................................-................................................................................-------------- Bulletin Message -................................................................................-................................................................................---------------
From: Ben Carnes (113824469)
To: (192433853)
Date: 28/09/2009 18:02:07
Subject: Open Letter to my Brother, Wanbli and to everyone:


Open Letter to my Brother, Wanbli and to everyone:

Thanks so much for all that you have done. I know that we have discussed this, and I support you in your decision brother. You came in and did one hell of a remarkable job, there is no one who has a thing to say about the effort and time you gave.

I also completely understand about having the freedom to speak without repercussion to the committee or Leonard. I was in that same position after our 1999 campaign, and I wrote Leonard a letter designed to get me fired, and proceeded to prepare for an action that would have guaranteed to create worldwide publicity as never seen before. However, I was later advised that there was something working with the White House, so I stood down and called off my action.

When Clinton left the White House without signing clemency, and the details were revealed to me later, I was severely disappointed that I had not followed through. The thought about the government keeping its promises to Native people - is that it never has and why should Clinton be any different. Or Obama for that matter.

As we have discussed Wanbli, I feel the need to come from a broader approach to help not only Leonard, but Native people and others as well. It is time that we take destiny in our own hands, in a dignified manner, and let this occupying government know that we are done with being patronized, being mislead/lied to, and being used for photo ops!

Years ago, Bill Means said that in order to free the land; we must first free our minds! There is so much truth in this. We cannot go on expecting the government to do anything righteous for us, without us setting the course of action. The first step to freeing the minds is that everyone must remember that as Indigenous peoples of this hemisphere, WE HAVE NO BORDERS! The Indigenous peoples to the north and South of us are our relatives; we all speak a colonial language whether it is English, Spanish or French! Our strength is in our numbers, and those numbers can capture the attention of the world if we can come together and move forward on a hemispheric strike.

Can we organize such a strike to shut this hemisphere down? Can we shut down major transportation hubs, public utilities and can we count upon our non-Native allies to join us in this strike. It is a major sacrifice to us all if no one works, and we spend a week occupying major transportation hubs so commerce is disrupted!
It has been said that we will never get their attention until we hit them in their pocketbook. Well, it is time to see if we can amass the numbers to make this happen. It will take organization and massive coordination in different languages.

I can imagine what the governments response will be, a police/..............military one. Will they designate me as a terrorist because I am speaking about this and encouraging the thought so that we can achieve justice? Justice for Peltier, the Kanaka Maoli (Native Hawaiians) whose kingdom has been suppressed by the US, and the failure of the US to honor its treaties, etc.?

This government has never dealt honorably with us, and I doubt they will now. If they fear we will succeed in our efforts, they will call the tribal councils for a summit meeting to "resolve" the claims. The tribal council systems are an entity set up by the government. It is not a representation of the traditional governments that still exists.

I would like to see that the traditional leaders, headmen, clan mothers and spiritual leaders consulted and have input. These tribal council systems need to dissolve and we began exercising our sovereignty as an Independent nation and move toward reclaiming our territories.

When the term, "The Great White Father in Washington" first arose, it was a term of respect from one Chief to another. In modern times, it has become a derisive term meaning a thief and liar. Before I went to DC to do my personal fast and prayer, I wrote the comment on FB that I was going to Washington to seethe Great Black father and I wasn't taking any crumbs. Someone felt it was in ill form, I looked at it and saw that for the first time in over two hundred years this term has changed, and will the actions of "the Great Black father" be any different? It was a question. I think we now have our answer. We cannot wait until the end of his term, like Clinton asked us, because Leonard shouldn’t have to wait that long!
In this year, we supposedly have been told through a contact that Obama was going to do something, but every time the time frame promised came and went, we were given another excuse why something didn't happen. So did Obama lie to stall us, or was someone yanking our chain? It doesn’t matter now, something has been set into motion.

Everyday Leonard sits in prison for an unjust conviction is a day he will never get to spend with his family. It is another day that we cannot get the support for a major congressional investigation to look at the FBI's Counterintellig..........ence program that attacked so many organizations, and it was also the FBI who set up Coler and Williams on that day in Oglala. Their families need to hear the truth! Not the lies and propaganda by the ilk of Woods, Sennetts and the Trimbachs, including other members of the FBI.

It was two young boys with squirrel rifles that unintentionally.......... foiled their raid on the AIM camp at Oglala, by cutting off their reinforcements........... It was never a pursuit for Jimmy Eagle and a pair of cowboy boots. Not when they never actively investigated the murders of the traditional's or the AIM members. There is no way they can convince me that a pair of used cowboy boots was more important than the lives of the women and children who were murdered.

With the series of federal/state trials in the murder of Anna Mae Aquash, there will be mudslinging against Peltier, his attorney Ellison, and other members of AIM. Some former members of AIM will join the government in pointing fingers. There is something wrong when an individual who stood against a common enemy, joins them and then helps to prosecute and convict them.

What will be lacking is the name of former Special Agent David Price who told Anna Mae that if she would be dead within a year if she didn't cooperate in implicating Peltier and others in the deaths of the agents. When they found Anna Mae's body, people saw Agent Price at the scene. When they asked if they could identify the body, they were told the body was too badly decomposed to be recognizable. So "Jane Doe’s" hands were cut off from her body (mutilation) to be sent to DC for fingerprinting.

It wasn't until Ellison moved for an independent pathology because they had reason to suspect the Jane Doe was Anna Mae, that they discovered the body was still recognizable as Anna Mae. David Price knew who the Jane Doe was, but they attempted a cover-up.
The feds have always attacked the women. I've heard from a few female supporters this year that believed they have been assaulted because of their support for Peltier. David Hill has been under constant surveillance and followed all over the country, and as everyone knows, I had been facing trial, but since they never had a case, it was dismissed in July.

My prayer in DC has been one of what is it going to take to free Peltier? The answers is that it is going to require a broader approach on a wholly different level.

I was reminded about the time I went to Columbia and met with the Indigenous peoples there. They told me that they needed our support because all the policies they have affected them negatively has came from Washington, DC.

So when we say we are the caretakers of the land and we call everyone our relatives, but do nothing on a significant level to help them, what does that say about us? Are we just talking?

There is another generation behind us who say they want to revive AIM. I say let it die. It is a new energy and direction that needs to set course. We need this without the baggage and differences that exists.

The government in the 1924 American Indian Citizenship Act has confiscated our identity as Native People - First Nations People, then a few years later the Ft. Sill Apaches were granted a Presidential Pardon since it was not inherent in the 1924 Act.

Technically, we remain Prisoners Of War and are born into captivity. I did not ask to be an American whose history has been one of genocide and theft of our lands and continued oppression of the people. I have no representatives.......... who speak for me or the people in DC. It is a fallacy that we have endured and attempted to work with, but now it must end.

What is the plan you ask? First, each First Nation people who hears and reads this must decide if this what they need to do and begin discussion with their traditional leaders, only they have the right to speak and deliberate for their selves. If they are in general agreement, then it is time to meet in a great council, I would be willing to host on my land here.

We would need to extend the invitation to all Indigenous peoples from this hemisphere to attend because they have a voice also. When we can reach a consensus, then we set up on the Mall in DC with a notice sent to the President and Congress that we are coming for a meeting. Since Tipi's are transportable, we can set up a major encampment on the mall and establish an area for this government to meet with us. The historic presence of thousands of Tipi's on the Mall will have the attention of the world to see if this government is ready to deal honorably with us. One of the first points to be presented to see if the government is prepared to acknowledge our rightful place in this hemisphere is the immediate release of Leonard Peltier as a symbol of good faith. Leonard must not be a sacrificial lamb, not when millions of us have put so much into this. And that will be just the beginning to rectify years of dishonor by the U.S. government.

The rent has come due and the course of history must change. I know that when Obama made his campaign promises, he never expected this to arise. I know that he has other things on his minds, but we have been waiting for fairness and respect for 233 years!
We should also remind him that the White House sits upon the traditional lands of the Piscataway Indian Nation and that he never even considered asking traditional Chief William "Redwing" Tayac to welcome him. I sent word through a few of Obama’s campaign people – again, no sign of respect.

If they fail to meet or attempt to patronize us, then we must exercise our free will to create a just and fair society. We have to make change, we cannot continue to ask the government to do so for us. They never have and never will, so it is time they put aside world affairs and listen to us and act accordingly. The First Nations should also have a say and vote on how this country deals with others, and begin to restore the freedoms we have surrendered through our overall silence over the past 30 - 40 years.

There is much to do, and I call upon many others who we have known that have stood for Leonard to take his place and for others to come and take my place. I will not resign until I have someone capable to help Leonard and Kari in the office. The work I have set out will occupy quite a bit of my time, and it will be difficult for me to do both.

Just the work I've done for Leonard has set me way behind in land payments, my willing sacrifice for my brother has forced me to send my family to my in-laws for their safety and well-being. It has caused friends to become frighten of what the government "might" do to me to move away from associating with me so that they will believe they will be out of harms way "IF" it happens. That is there choice and their own free will. I do not demand anyone to sacrifice for Leonard or to help support me while I do this work. It has to come from people's own free will that believe in what I do.

I am not a non-profit so I cannot offer anyone a tax-........................................................deductions, nor do I want to be a NPO. Yet, I do appreciate the support that feeds me, keeps fuel in my vehicle, and whatever comes to help me keep the land I have. Others are stepping forward to do what they can to help me create a home or shelter for the coming winter. I currently live in an RV that needs some repairs to be fully functional, but it isn't going to be sufficient to keep me warm in the winter.

I've had a few critics who have attempted to discredit me and criticize me for who I am, even to the extent to say I wasn’t Indian! I expect they will begin again from this message. If they have a complaint, then they better look at what they have done for Leonard or other Indian people than sit safely behind their computer screens and spread misinformation........... Who are they really, and what have they done, except point fingers? What real sacrifices have they made? Are they helping to get the word out about what is going on at Akwesasne, the missing and murdered women in Klanada, or showing support to other Native prisoners? I don’t see it.

I carry a belief that the Creator will care for my family and myself, including the visions I have for the land I live on, and if I need to ask for help, and they want to criticize, then everyone will know them for what they are.

The Creator moves people to send me a few dollars here and there, and at times it has been just enough to get by. For what needs to be done, I will begin to need more help and support from many, I would also need some assistance from attorneys and bookkeepers if they will offer their services. I’ll need help with answering correspondences.........., logistics, and translations, along with much more.

I need to get this land paid off so it can be placed safely into a trust and to find good hearted people who may want to live here and help with organizing this hemispheric effort to change history. People who can be trusted and can work together. This land needs to be a gathering place for what needs to be done and I’ll need help.

There is a sense of urgency here because I would hate to think about what would happen if Leonard were to die in prison. I saw the rage and frustration when his parole denial was made public; I was greatly concerned for many of you when I saw what you wrote. Be careful; don't give them the tools they need to take you away from us.

I've believed the mass raids by ICE a few years ago was an exercise in coordination to see how efficiently they can move to arrest people. I am sure all of our names is on a list, and they can scoop up a lot of us overnight so that by sun rise there may not be enough of us left to mount a significant protest.

We all have families that need us, and some of us have the safety of friends and families. You know my family is away safe, and I live alone here in the mountains, but I had to say what I have because I haven't seen or heard anyone else say it. And someone needed to.

I believe our time is now and we need to spread the word to as many people as possible, because there is no way in hell I can do this by myself!

I am speaking for myself, not as a representative of the LPDOC or any organization or other First Nations, but this is from my heart and from my years of experiences that indicate it has come to this. We cannot free Peltier as a singular issue, we need to bring it all together. If we can grow our numbers quickly, it can assure our safety for the time being. The LPDOC is a non-profit, and our association in an official capacity can be a hindrance through what Wanbli has to do, and what I need to do. We are not quitting on Leonard, we are just going to step it up by having the freedom to speak truthfully.

.

In the Spirit of Total Resistance,

Ben Carnes
P.O. Box 88
Gardner, CO 81040
bencarnes@...eaglecouncil...........com




</b>Read the response from Kenny Frost(Ute)</b>








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Sep 29, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject:    Ben Carnes...Native American "TERRORIST???"
Body:    Wicahcala….. I told you of the fraud Ben Carnes is and you didn’t listen to me… But rather defend him. Just as you are defending his actions here now!!!
By saying he is zealous?

Is the Leonard Pelitier organization now turned into “TERRORIST’s GROUP”…. Ben Carnes is supposedly the “CHIEF spokesman of this group??? You’re a part of this as well too! You and those in charge of Leonard organization allow this to happen….

You allows him to destroy the years and years of work of many who supported Leonard. Many of those who supported Leonard were “Movie Stars, Judges, Members of the Law Enforcement communities, Politicians, Foreign Delegates and the list goes on.

Wichahcala you allow this Fake (Ben Carnes) to destroy all the years of hard work.

For the 1st time in history we “HAD” friends who were willing to work for Leonard release in high places….This is now gone!!!...
I for one will not be a part of this group who supports a Terrorist as Ben Carnes or anyone who does harm to our people. I have not forward messages onward to anyone.

Ben Carnes wants to do away with the many AIM organization why? Because, he couldn’t get support from them as they don’t know who Ben Carnes is.

As I stated, Ben Carnes is a convicted felon, he is a fake, a fraud and was self-appointed sun dance chief. He isn’t a chief of anything! He is a nobody! No one knows who Ben Carnes is. He resides in Colorado and yet no one knows who he is. The Denver Native community doesn’t know who Ben Carnes is as well and if they did they also say he is a fraud!

At the end of Ben letter. He goes on to ask for money to survive. Now that winter is coming. What about the other poor people who reside on Indian reservations who suffer day in and day out? They don’t have a warm house, heat to heat their home, often times going without proper food. What about these people?

Now Ben Carnes is and will be known in the Native community as a “Terrorist” And enemy of Native people as well too. We must remember, The US is also Indian Country and this is our land. We as Native people will also protect “Our Land (USA)” from those who try to destroy it. Whether it is people from foreign land, soil and even from our own which includes Ben Carnes.

Remember there were Native people who were also taken in 9/11 as well too. Many Native people lost their lives rescuing other people. We will not forget them.

A great many Native people have given their lives in the protection of the US and Indian Country and have died doing so. A great many Native people “Will Not” be a part of a organization which will support a terrorist as Ben Carnes.


wicahcala

While i understand Bens zeal for the cause i want it understood that i in no way condone the idea of shutting down major transportation hubs and public utilities or disrupting public commerce.."





</b>P.S. I have received word from good authority that Ben resigned from his position with The Leonard Peltier Defence/Offence Commitee a couple hours ago.

What lead up to this developement?
It is presumed he will now more forward with implementing his plans for terrorist acts!

Walks....</b>

[bls926]

We should also remind him that the White House sits upon the traditional lands of the Piscataway Indian Nation and that he never even considered asking traditional Chief William "Redwing" Tayac to welcome him. I sent word through a few of Obama’s campaign people – again, no sign of respect.

This is ironic. Ben thinks Obama should have contacted Billy Tayac, introduced himself, and asked to be welcomed on Piscataway land. Where is Eagle Mountain located? How many years has Ben lived on Ute land? How many years has he been conducting ceremony on their land without their permission? And now he wants to organize this resistance movement on Ute land.

[Rattlebone]

We should also remind him that the White House sits upon the traditional lands of the Piscataway Indian Nation and that he never even considered asking traditional Chief William "Redwing" Tayac to welcome him. I sent word through a few of Obama’s campaign people – again, no sign of respect.

This is ironic. Ben thinks Obama should have contacted Billy Tayac, introduced himself, and asked to be welcomed on Piscataway land. Where is Eagle Mountain located? How many years has Ben lived on Ute land? How many years has he been conducting ceremony on their land without their permission? And now he wants to organize this resistance movement on Ute land.

 Well Ben is not living on reservation or tribal lands. It was lands ceded to the US government and opened up for settlement by anyone. Now I am not saying that I am agreeing with this, but rather it seems like you are presenting this as if Ben is on Sovereign Ute territory, which he is not.

 Now is it traditional Ute lands? Yes it is. Just like the entire western hemisphere is the traditional lands of one nation or another.

 The thing is in this situation, can you or even Kenny Frost complain when a non Indian builds a home, church, or building on such lands? The answer is no you can not unless the land contains something protected under NAGPRA or other such laws protecting remains etc. To day there really isn't a law protecting sacred sites, and that is very unfortunate. Of course if there was, then those living or operating business in places like the Black Hills etc just might have a legal problem.

 So what we have here is an Indian man being attacked for what he is legally doing on land that he owns. That is a racist double standard since if some non Indian lived there, they could do whatever they want with that land as long as it broke no laws.

  At best  what Ben did was something that some might view as disrespectful, and yet it does not warrant the words that Ben has received for this action in regards to this.

 I was taught by my elders that proper protocol in such a situation would be to go to the elder of the land you live on and ask them if you could perform a ceremony on their traditional homelands. Now they could say no, and to be respectful it would be wise not to perform them on their lands; still it would not make someone an exploiter if they ignored the wishes of those elders. In this particular case it seems Kenny Frost as so much of a personal vendetta against Ben, that I could see Kenny saying no just for that reason. That in itself would be just as much disrespect as Ben not going to him in the first place.

 Of course my viewpoints on this are based on what I was taught by elders in area, and maybe it is different for Utes since all people have different ways. Such things and different ways must even be dealt with in commercial ventures such as powwows at times, especially when the subject of women on the drum comes up.

 Still the main point here is that what Ben is doing is on private land that he owns, and when it comes down to it Kenny Frost and the Ute nation have no real say. To think they have say on what an Indian man can do on his land or not as opposed of what a NON Indian does on the same land seems to me to be a racist double standard.

 None of this proves that he is an exploiter, and quite frankly I am not even sure if this aspect of the topic even belongs in this thread because of it.

[Cetan]

Rattlebone - you stated quite nicely what I was going to post - Ben Carnes is living on private landans while Utes may say it is traditional Ute land other nations also may lay claim as part of their traditional homelands.  And how many of those who criticize him have been working for Leonards freedom, how many of them made the sacrifice to fast in Washington to bring Leonards plight to the attention of the the White House and the public?

[Rattlebone]

</b>Read the response from Kenny Frost(Ute)</b>








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Sep 29, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject:    Ben Carnes...Native American "TERRORIST???"
Body:    Wicahcala….. I told you of the fraud Ben Carnes is and you didn’t listen to me… But rather defend him. Just as you are defending his actions here now!!!
By saying he is zealous?

Is the Leonard Pelitier organization now turned into “TERRORIST’s GROUP”…. Ben Carnes is supposedly the “CHIEF spokesman of this group??? You’re a part of this as well too! You and those in charge of Leonard organization allow this to happen….

You allows him to destroy the years and years of work of many who supported Leonard. Many of those who supported Leonard were “Movie Stars, Judges, Members of the Law Enforcement communities, Politicians, Foreign Delegates and the list goes on.

Wichahcala you allow this Fake (Ben Carnes) to destroy all the years of hard work.

For the 1st time in history we “HAD” friends who were willing to work for Leonard release in high places….This is now gone!!!...
I for one will not be a part of this group who supports a Terrorist as Ben Carnes or anyone who does harm to our people. I have not forward messages onward to anyone.

Ben Carnes wants to do away with the many AIM organization why? Because, he couldn’t get support from them as they don’t know who Ben Carnes is.

As I stated, Ben Carnes is a convicted felon, he is a fake, a fraud and was self-appointed sun dance chief. He isn’t a chief of anything! He is a nobody! No one knows who Ben Carnes is. He resides in Colorado and yet no one knows who he is. The Denver Native community doesn’t know who Ben Carnes is as well and if they did they also say he is a fraud!

At the end of Ben letter. He goes on to ask for money to survive. Now that winter is coming. What about the other poor people who reside on Indian reservations who suffer day in and day out? They don’t have a warm house, heat to heat their home, often times going without proper food. What about these people?

Now Ben Carnes is and will be known in the Native community as a “Terrorist” And enemy of Native people as well too. We must remember, The US is also Indian Country and this is our land. We as Native people will also protect “Our Land (USA)” from those who try to destroy it. Whether it is people from foreign land, soil and even from our own which includes Ben Carnes.

Remember there were Native people who were also taken in 9/11 as well too. Many Native people lost their lives rescuing other people. We will not forget them.

A great many Native people have given their lives in the protection of the US and Indian Country and have died doing so. A great many Native people “Will Not” be a part of a organization which will support a terrorist as Ben Carnes.


wicahcala

While i understand Bens zeal for the cause i want it understood that i in no way condone the idea of shutting down major transportation hubs and public utilities or disrupting public commerce.."





</b>P.S. I have received word from good authority that Ben resigned from his position with The Leonard Peltier Defence/Offence Commitee a couple hours ago.

What lead up to this developement?
It is presumed he will now more forward with implementing his plans for terrorist acts!

Walks....</b>

 This part of your post I do believe violates the rules of the moderators here. It is based not on fact, but rather on an opinion expressed by Kenny Frost and nothing more.

 In fact since it is presenting opinions as if they are facts, it is libelous in nature since Ben Carnes is not a terrorist. The opinion and accusations of Ben being a terrorist by Kenny Frost are based on Ben's own words in regards to what the feels the USG would call him for his opinions. This is not unlike what the FBI and USG has called AIM and most NDN activists.

 In fact the shutting down of commercial hubbs etc is not much different then what the so called "illegal immigrants" tried to do in their immigrants rights marches, and days when they would not buy or sell. That does not make them terrorists any more so then it does Ben Carnes.

 Therefore this part of your post is nothing but opinion by Kenny Frost being presented as fact, and is out right libelous in nature because of it.

[Walks]

I speak with Kenny pretty regularly and I have not, even one time, heard him say any thing against Ben simply living in the area.

Just as he does not say any thing to any one of another race for inhabiting the area.

What, I think, Kenny's real objection to is the fact that Ben is conducting a Ceremony, which is traditional to the Ute, but not the Choctaw, as far as I am aware, and is doing so in traditional Ute territory.

As such, Ben is making and proclaiming himself as a leader and representative of the Native population of the area.

He is not endorsed, nor even accepted by the NDN community there.

The argument that the land is no longer in NDN possession doesnt pan out as neither is the property that the white house occupies.

That sentence, was also the one, among a couple others, which stuck out the most to me and also to several others whom I have spoke to since this statement from Carnes came out.

And yes, I do find it a bit ironic that Ben would complain about Obama doing something that he himself is doing.

I have personally heard Ben use the argument that he is justified in his actions regardless of the opinion of the Ute Nation, because as he said, "If Creator didn't want me to be doing what I do, where I do it, I would not have been able to have the means to do so."

That may not be an exact quote, but I guarantee you it were words to that exact same effect.

Do I agree with the Gov occupying and in fact governing over NDN lands?......Of course not, and not just lands in D.C.
However, it is come to be expected for those with the more superioristic Euro type morals and values to conduct themselves in this way.

Shall we go so far as to say that we should expect those same values from Carnes? After all he does claim to be tradish rather than totally assimilated doesn't he?

As for this being a proper discussion for this thread, or group even, as many of you know, exploiters and victimizers are the only people who are actively seeking out others who are desperate to make some kind of connection to the/a Native community.

Noone else is going to be out beating the bushes looking for the folks, therefor, often times it is the exploiters with whom these folks first come in contact with.

If there is any kind of a question about ones intentions in regards to this or their character, You are damn right....research is needed!

Myself and others feel like Ben is losing it and is becoming dangerous, not only to himself, but to others as well as reflecting negatively on the NDN community in general.

It is not a dishonorable act, to try and bring awareness to otherwise unknowing, but sincere, individuals as to the possibility of unwittingly getting involved in a potentially very bad situation in their quest to connect.

If, after being advised to the possible perils, that person goes on to put themselves into a predicament, while unfortunate, that person can not say they were not made aware of the possible dangers, whether it be legal troubles, victimized financially or in some other manner.

Think for a minute, of Sunbear, and in another context, of Anna Mae Aquash.
Sometimes it is best to speak up so that others may make their own more informed decision as to what path it is that they wish to travel.



After all, he does claim to be tradish, does he not?