Author Topic: How & Why Nuagers Target Hopi  (Read 18702 times)

Offline educatedindian

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How & Why Nuagers Target Hopi
« on: March 06, 2005, 11:31:13 pm »
misternick03" <m9522301@qub.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:56:16 -0000
Subject: [nafps_again] Blue Stars, Green Men, and B.S.

Crikey, I think I might have unwillingly openend a can of worms here, with the old Hopi prophecies.

Bear with me and I'll try and sort this out as far as I am able.
First rule of Hopi: If you find 2 Hopis agreeing with each other for more than 15 minutes - one of them is lying.
Second rule of Hopi: If you're not Hopi you don't understand Hopi!
I'm not Hopi. (best make that very clear from the outset!!) I do not speak for any Hopis either, I am studying the people that come to Hopi - i.e. generally New Agers, art collectors, and 'cultural'
tourists, and researching the globalisation of so-called Hopi beliefs in a New Age context.

The Hopi play a large role in New Age cultures, for a variety of reasons, this ranges from the age old notion of romanticising the 'primitive' to a belief that the Hopi hold the answers to the world's very obvious problems.
The main problems that are associated with the Hopi role within the New Age, is that a small number of Hopi individuals actually endorsed
some of the messages that were coming out. However, these messages were generally picked up on by non-Hopis, such as Little Sun, Katherine Cheshire, Thomas Tarbett, etc. and re-interpreted in a non-Hopi context.(a guy called John Kimmey will even 'channel' messages from the Katsinam, for a fee)
The reasons for Hopi involvement with these people range from misguided trust, to a political opposition to the Hopi Tribal Council. The Council is not a perfect political organisation, and has been responsible for many mistakes in the past - most notably the issues revolving around the mining of Black Mesa, and the pumping of water from the n-aquifer (see info from Black Mesa Trust for further
details), but it is still representative of the majority of Hopi people, and is ultimately responsible to the people.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: How & Why Nuagers Target Hopi
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2005, 11:32:57 pm »
Pt 2:
Now, a fair number of do-gooder Anglos, see this small number of political 'Traditionalist' Hopis, and want to save the 'old ways' from certain extinction by the 'oppresive and evil, Mormon Hopis that
inhabit the Tribal Council'. It's just not that Black and White. And there really is little room for going over all of it here, suffice to say that there have been Tribal Chairmen who were religious and
spiritual leaders amongst there own villages, as well as Traditionalist leaders who travelled the world, had satellite TV, and were very hapopy to market a notion of Hopi-ness to anyone who had
the time and cash to listen to them.
It still happens today. Although the majority of political Traditionalist Hopis have died, there are a number of individuals who will host the less sane Anglo visitor, and basically tell them whatever they want to hear, (my favourite recent one, is that AIDS is a government conspiracy!)
The petroglyph mentioned in the Prescott Courier article, is closer to Sipaulovi than Misongnovi, and is a very recent petroglyph, that I was told represents a butterfly maiden - nothing to do with UFOs. It is a nice piece of work though, and sits very close to some excellent maze petroglyphs.

As far as prophecy goes, I can't really say for sure. Hopi prophecy is Hopi specific. It is interpreted from myth according to which clan you are and which village you're from. There are certain themes that
arose after WWII that were claimed by some Hopis to have immediate relevance to a non-Hopi audience, but again it was essentially used
as a tool to attract external assistance in the fight against the Tribal Council. Be assured the world will not end in 2012, but if it does I'll buy everyone on this list a pint!
So, there you have my opinion. In a nutshell it boils down to non-Hopis misinterpreting messages that Hopis were using for political clout against the council. The anti-government stance of various
Anglo individuals was utilised to great effect by these Hopis, but they could never have seen how widespread the messages were going to be.

Hopi is a wonderful place, even as a hard nosed cynic I'll admit that. Most Hopis appreciate non-Hopi visitors as long as they respect the facts that the villages are home to real people, not a
reservation of g-string clad mystics, all sitting on the edge of the Mesas, contmeplating the universe and calling the UFOs. Most Hopis will even accomodate the more spiritual visitor - I spoke to the criminal investigator for the Hopi police, and he told me that everybody is welcome to come to Hopi and pray to whoever they want, as long as they act in a respectful manner, and do not disrupt any
ceremonies.
Unfortunately there is little call for factual information out in the wider world. Who wants to listen to stories about the disintegration of Hopi language programs amongst school kids at Hopi, when they can listen to a story about the imminent purification of this world and the coming of a ..... "NEW AGE".
Hope this answers some questions, there is plenty of good information out there regarding Hopi, and 120 years worth of really bad info. It is difficult to separate some of it and every story out there will
have at least one Hopi individual who is willing to endorse it. My only advice is this, Hopi prophecy/myth or 'spiritual secrets' are only relevant to Hopi people, so if you're thinking about going to a Hopi workshop in Tucson, Birmingham or Auckland - ask yourself who is delivering this message, why are they doing it, and why are you
thinking about going there.
Love Nick.
P.S. please ask me about Hopi ear candles!!!!!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: How & Why Nuagers Target Hopi
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2005, 11:32:21 pm »
misternick03" <m9522301@qub.ac.uk>  
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:44:49 -0000
Subject: [nafps_again] Re: Question about "Blue Star"

--- In nafps_again@yahoogroups.com, haidadawn <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In nafps_again@yahoogroups.com, "misternick03" <m9522301@q...>
> wrote:
> > Sorry to bust that bubble, No such Blue Star prophecy exists in  reality. It is an actual Katsina that appears amongst the 4-500 or so Katsinam at Hopi,
> ---
> alrighty then!   :)   TY for the information. May I have your > permission to post this in response to the original messages...
> (since the groups messages are closed to the public...otherwise I > would just direct them here!)  It wasn't "my" question, there are  several people trying to fathom this "myth".

Feel free to post it in big letters wherever you feel it may do any good!!
Nick