Author Topic: Tsisqua  (Read 107739 times)

frederica

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Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2008, 01:55:43 pm »
Sometimes it's just a difference in how people present things. I don't think individuals are in question, but sometimes people question the methods they use.  I remember when American Indian Injustice group was started.  They were sending out Alerts to all the different lists. Many didn't appreciate it, and had them stop. The lists felt they were being spammed.  As they had read the items on other lists anyway, and felt it was old news.  The idea may be good, but sometimes it all in presentation. And you know as well as I everyone's perception may be a little different. So they ask questions. It may have to do with personalities, but it's not personal. That's what makes it hard on a computer. So let's easy up for a while.

Offline Tsisqua

  • Posts: 281
    • Native American Unity ~ NAU
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2008, 02:30:33 pm »
Moma Porcupine....You know...I fail to understand why you did not take this line of questioning with RavenCrow when she was here blowing her own trumpet and treating others with disrespect...also claiming she owned RNS...which she does not....RNS are annoymous...infact this is the info they are willing to give...

Quote
Admins are: Baby Chelle, Bobby and Raven Crow aka knightcrowwatching

Funny how they Charge and ASK for money...also sell cermonial items to non natives on their site...yet you have not called them into question?...but you call NAU and myself into question as we TOO are annoymous...yet we do NOT accept money...donations...we maintain NAU out of our own pockets...and work on our own time.

Now if the Admin here at NAFPS wish me to remove our advertisements asking our members and readers to visit here in support....I will do so without a second thought. Nothing we place on our site can validate NAU....only how we deal with others...only the trust people build up due to their dealings with us....only through our keeping our word...can show who we are.

Yes our chat rooms are monitored 24/7.....and that is as it should be. IF you read my posting on Tribal America in the fraud section...you will see my biggest complaint was the abuse of our people by non native people...abuse that was permitted to happen and was charged a membership free for....we have assured all our members THIS will not happen at NAU...and we intend to keep our word....now....is that wrong of me? What terrible people we all are eh.

Moma Porcupine...with respect....you are entitled to your personal opinion of me...and of NAU...and I have no issue with that whatsoever....infact im becomming quite used to it....your PM to me did however give the impression you were part of the admin here....of which I can post if need be....you took a highly authorative tone...even asking me to PM other admin to tell them WHO I AM......of which...as I have already explained...I did some months ago when I came across my name in the NAFPS forum (Yahoo Group)...and forgive me if Im wrong...but there did not seem to be an issue with admin at the time.

I will again clarify what NAU IS and what it is NOT:

WE DO NOT: Permit abuse of our people in our chat rooms....all offenders are removed and banned on the spot....which is as it should be to keep chat safe and abuse free....as we value our members and friends.

WE DO NOT: Ask for membership fees or donations of ANY kind for NAU

WE DO NOT: Promote ourselves as people in any shape or form...as NAU is about unity and all Native people being treated as equal....it is not about 'who Tsisqua is and what she does'....nor is it about anyone else...there is no 'I' in'We'.

WE DO NOT: Sell ceremony, ceremonial items or promote such.

WE DO NOT: Give out members personal information...or indeed our own.


WE DO: Offer free membership

WE DO: Offer free chatrooms that are abuse free...that are monitored to keep it that way

WE DO: Offer as much information on site as possible...as we update our pages regularly...and are always open to the thoughts and views of our members as to how we can make the site a better place...more informative etc.

WE DO: Allow members to submit their own additions to our pages...as NAU is again...about unity and all members being treated as equal

WE DO: Send out regular updates via our bulk mailing system to keep members informed of all changes to the site...updates...new pages...new feature pages...chat times...causes to support etc

WE DO: The very best we can for our people.

As I said above....people will...and indeed do gain their own impression of who we are by the way we run NAU...and in our dealings with others...trust is a thing earnt...as is respect....I do not use this site to promote NAU as you claim...YOU asked me to state here who NAU is...and WHAT NAU is...of which I have done...to which you seem to have turned it back around as a means to finger point....if you Moma Porcupine are entitled to remain annoymous...so is every other poster on this board...regardless of who they are.

Incidently...the IP number of the cached section of our forum you posted...if this is not your own....then I would like to know WHO it belongs to...as this is an IP number we had to repeatedly ban from our forum for lurking...perhaps someone sent you the cached page and asked you to call NAU into question...who knows...since you claim you did not repeatedly come into our forum daily etc...all I can gather from that is the IP belongs to the person who sent you the page....which rings many alarm bells for me since we were hacked....and our forum is now closed on site.

I have respect for all posters here...including yourself...and that has not changed...but if people feel I am not welcome here...I will of course cancel my membership without another word. I come here to gain knowledge...to learn...to help....nothing more.

With Respect,

Tsisqua



Additional note: My apologies frederica....you posted your comment as I was writing my own...and I did not see it until after I posted...my intention is not to drag this on...but to clear up some points regarding NAU...since we are being called into question.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 02:32:17 pm by Tsisqua »
There are no leaders in Unity

frederica

  • Guest
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2008, 03:19:56 pm »
I think she just asked some questions, about numbers and presentation. All the rest was not in question.  Now can we give it a rest.

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2008, 04:01:18 pm »
As for what I do here, ( and why is this about me - I am not trying to promote anything )I may post a lot, but I have never misrepresented myself.

I have asked the people involved with this site, who I know aren't exploiters, or quietly supporting exploiters, to let me know if I ever take away from the purpose of this site. If any of them ever want to ask me to tone it down or completely shut up, I would be very happy to do so.

And wolfhawaii - don't blame me if I posted an advertisement showing someone who happened to be you supporting a questionable person . I never pointed out this person was you and it was an publicly advertised event.
Why it is about you is that you show no sense of selflimitation or responsibility. The link you posted had already been posted by EducatedIndian on the Ely thread.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 03:41:19 pm by wolfhawaii »

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2008, 05:01:53 pm »
Tansi;

As one who has felt the attacks of the individual who identifies as "Moma Porcupine," I can easily understand why it is that there are some who believe that this site promotes "Witch Hunts."  I chose to use my own name, in spite of the risks of exposing personal information, on the highly dubious internet.  As I also live in an Aboriginal community, in the northern part of Saskatchewan, I am familiar with some aspects of my Culture that may not be put up on the internet. 

I also am highly suspicious of anything that is posted on the internet, since there are few controls over the veracity of the information, when it is placed in this public media.

By the same standard, I do not limit my learning experience, by only reading on the internet. 

I have made the decision to not participate, as much as I once did, mainly due to the apparently personal attacks that one individual makes, when I have attempted to share some of what it is that I work on. 

At the same time, I recognize the dangers of Plastic Shamans and Fraudulent posers, some of whom I have met, which is why I have continued to participate in this forum.

In our Culture, shunning and ignoring the offending individual, is one of the ways that disrespect is dealt with.  I know that there are some here, who do not understand this, but there are likely some, who do.

As with many learning opportunities, I have found it beneficial to "take what I need and leave the rest". 

I left a secure job, in which it was my duty to find fault, when I found myself not trusting, nor showing Respect for anyone or anything that I encountered.  I realized that my own life was not balanced, and it was causing me Spiritual, Mental and Emotional harm, that ultimately led me to experience Physical harm.

While I chose to use my own name, in this forum, my Life is not defined by what appears on the internet.

Ric

Offline tree hugger

  • Posts: 25
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2008, 05:42:58 pm »
I've been reading this exchange, and decided to keep out of it. Although I have some reasons to be a little skeptical about some person involved with NAU. All that aside, I just couldn't be quiet anymore lol. This statement

"Incidently...the IP number of the cached section of our forum you posted...if this is not your own....then I would like to know WHO it belongs to...as this is an IP number we had to repeatedly ban from our forum for lurking...perhaps someone sent you the cached page and asked you to call NAU into question...who knows...since you claim you did not repeatedly come into our forum daily etc...all I can gather from that is the IP belongs to the person who sent you the page....which rings many alarm bells for me since we were hacked....and our forum is now closed on site."

I had to reply before my brain exploded. This is google's ip for cached version of your page. It happens all the time in our stats, I mean all the time. When someone does a search for a page, then hits cached, this is what it looks like. This belongs to google and not an individual.

IP address 209.85.173.104
Hostname mh-in-f104.google.com
ISP Google Inc.


On that note (preventing myself from screaming at more assumptions) I'll walk away and not say any more.

Offline Tsisqua

  • Posts: 281
    • Native American Unity ~ NAU
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2008, 06:15:44 pm »
The ip shows up as:

Quote
State/Region CA
City Mountain View

And with all due respect...the IP number Moma Porcupine posted is the very same IP number that visited our website forum up to 20 times a day without posting...to which we banned...now I doubt sincerely Google did that! And since a few of our team modorated the forum and checked the stat regularly...we WOULD know these things...but I should just hush my mush...After all....what would I know...Im not to be trusted....Im just the untrustworthy idiot from NAU eh.
There are no leaders in Unity

Offline tree hugger

  • Posts: 25
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2008, 06:32:15 pm »
The ip shows up as:

Quote
State/Region CA
City Mountain View

And with all due respect...the IP number Moma Porcupine posted is the very same IP number that visited our website forum up to 20 times a day without posting...to which we banned...now I doubt sincerely Google did that! And since a few of our team modorated the forum and checked the stat regularly...we WOULD know these things...but I should just hush my mush...After all....what would I know...Im not to be trusted....Im just the untrustworthy idiot from NAU eh.

I did not post this to cause problems, I was hoping to help clear that up. Google didn't do it, it's what comes up when anyone, anywhere in the world would cache your site. Maybe I'm too computer geeky, but I'm serious. If you take a look at when you google sites never do your ip's show. When you do that, that is what shows.

Nevermind. Just thought that might help.

Offline Tsisqua

  • Posts: 281
    • Native American Unity ~ NAU
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2008, 06:34:13 pm »
And I appreciate that...all Im saying is the ip number from Mountain View CA was one we had to repeatedly ban and remove from our forum for lurking...that's it...that's all.

Added note: Ok...as I said in the past I come here to gain knowledge...and I have just received this from Barnaby:

Quote
Posting has been removed due to request from Barnaby

So I stand corrected...and you all have my apologies...I do not claim to be a pc expert...far from it...so I do sincerely appreciate the correction and information...and again I am sorry.

With respect,

Tsissy
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 04:13:52 pm by Tsisqua »
There are no leaders in Unity

Offline Moma_porcupine

  • Posts: 681
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Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2008, 01:51:30 am »
I think there is some misunderstandings happening here.

wolfhawaii I apologize if the information I posted was already in a link and educatedindian was aware of this. I actually didn't notice that. I was privately sent some information someone was concerned about. I investgated and posted what I found.

If administration wants proof of this I can forward this information to them - 

If you think about it, you would realize how impractical it would be to ask educatedindian  if it's OK to post everything I find before I post it.

Yes I was wondering why you were giving me such a hard time for asking the same sort of questions that get asked here regularly. How i see it is just because people have posted here and say they consider certain people exploiters and frauds shouldn't mean their own public activities should be beyond question.

Ric, i'm sorry you feel I attacked you personally.

My first post in this forum was on the subject of the sale of sage and sweet grass, and you joined in this discussion, disagreeing with my expressing my concern and saying you felt it was OK. Maybe other people would percieve this differently but IMO if anyone was personally attacked in this thread it was me, and when I began this thread i had no idea you had plans to sell this as a business. So my concerns about this had nothing at all to do with "you" .

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=580.0;all

When you started a thread on your business , I will admit my question asking if this was a fancy way of selling sweetgrass, was rude , but in the discussion in the above thread, the only thing that you talked about specifically, was selling sweetgrass, so it was an honest misunderstanding . When you explained what you were doing, I agreed most of what you planned to sell sounded entirely positive. 

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=877.0
   
The next discussion we had I asked a bunch of questions trying to clarify how it should be decided what parts of cultural traditions can be sold if people that culture belongs to don't agree. Yes I did ask some specific questions, which I feel you never answered and instead I was accused of "not caring about Native people " and "not caring about poverty and youth suicide." - which for me did feel like a personal attack - even if you didn't mean it that way.   I guess when people disagree on an issue it can feel like a personal attack, but i know i never meant it that way.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=412.0;all

That you would take this opprotunity to take one more kick at me probably says more about who you are than about me.

While I don't see a problem with asking any of the questions I have - I would see a big problem if I participated in asking these questions of people who don't post here, but I didn't ask these questions of people who do post here, and are selling something many Elders say shouldn't be sold or who are otherwise putting themselves in a position of public trust.

I do feel that as an anonymous person it would be better if i didn't post so much. I see so much stuff that doesn't seem right, and when I start digging what I often find looks more and more questionable. However I can also see that as an anonymous person of no authority , out of respect for the balance of this message board it might be better if I steped back some and left these many things for other people who are not anonymous and have a verifiable connections to a Native community, to deal with in their own way.

Participating on this message board I do feel a growing frustration at the constant stream of people who seem to want to point fingers at others but who expect their own activities to be beyond question or scrutiny , and the constant presure to accept the actions of themselves or their friends without question.

Maybe it is revealing that this criticism of me has only come up in response to me asking  questions that people don't want to answer or would prefer I didn't ask.

Anyway time for a breather to regain some perspective,  and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2008, 05:48:31 pm »
I think there is some misunderstandings happening here.

wolfhawaii I apologize if the information I posted was already in a link and educatedindian was aware of this. I actually didn't notice that. I was privately sent some information someone was concerned about. I investgated and posted what I found.

If administration wants proof of this I can forward this information to them - 

If you think about it, you would realize how impractical it would be to ask educatedindian  if it's OK to post everything I find before I post it.

Yes I was wondering why you were giving me such a hard time for asking the same sort of questions that get asked here regularly. How i see it is just because people have posted here and say they consider certain people exploiters and frauds shouldn't mean their own public activities should be beyond question.


It's not so much the questions you ask, but the way you ask them.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 03:43:51 pm by wolfhawaii »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2008, 12:26:14 am »

April 15
In the hopes of stopping incorrect rumors and speculation, I have edited my response to some accusations that were made by wolfhawaii, against me , as he has removed these accusations from his own posts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your question of what I am doing here ...well HMMMMM , maybe I am here to protect the culture, stand up for the Elders I love and have loved, and to help educate people about how to avoid being hurt by frauds exploiters and wing nuts.

Naw....it couldn't possibly be anything that straight forward ...

As for Tsisqua - and her website ... I have to say that an anonymous group of people running a website that has fully monitered youth chat rooms , that track peoples ISP's, and accuse people who ask legitimate questions of stalking and spying, and who post parts of peoples PM's to prove reasonable requests and questions were really some nasty persecution conspiracy , this behavior raises so many obvious concerns I don't think this needs further explanation.

It's possible my concerns are wholy unfounded, and if this is the case, all it would take is a few people with real names, who can be verified to live in a Native community and have good reputations in their community, to come and vouche for the good reputation of the people running NAU, either publicly in this thread, or privately to educatedindian. That would lay these concerns to rest. But I don't mean the Nuyagi Keetoowah or the SECCI .... With 19,000 American Indian members that sort of verification should be easy to arrange. Otherwise...  I really don't think this person should be promoting this website in NAFPS.

Just my opinion.... No doubt other people will have different opinions ... And it is for the administrators of the site to decide what is best..... I respect their judgment.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:17:06 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Tsisqua

  • Posts: 281
    • Native American Unity ~ NAU
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2008, 12:58:22 am »
Quote
As for Tsisqua - and her website ... I have to say that an anonymous group of people running a website that has fully monitered youth chat rooms , that track peoples ISP's, and accuse people who ask legitimate questions of stalking and spying, and who post parts of peoples PM's to prove reasonable requests and questions were really some nasty persecution conspiracy , this behavior raises so many obvious concerns I don't think this needs further explanation.

Dang...this is getting real old.

Firstly...we have fully monitored chatrooms, adult and youth for good reason..as I have already stated...if anyone wishes to read already on this thread....and I see nothing wrong with having monitored SAFE chatrooms for our people...in particular our youth!

Did I accuse you of spying and stalking? Did I actually SAY those words?? Ever?? I think not....if you are going to quote me...at least have the decency to speak the truth.

I posted your PM...to show your question to me...since you seem to jump ontop of every word I say...as proof of your words...but no doubt only you have that right.

And the only concerns it seems to be raising...is to you Moma Porcupine....since I have yet to see anyone else post on this matter. I have answered your questions..I have explained what and who we are...within the boundaries of remaining annoymous..which as I have said before...if it is good enough for you to remain annoymous...then its good enough for others.


Quote
It's possible my concerns are wholy unfounded, and if this is the case, all it would take is a few people with real names, who can be verified to live in a Native community and have good reputations in their community, to come and vouche for the good reputation of the people running NAU, either publicly in this thread, or privately to educatedindian. That would lay these concerns to rest. But I don't mean the Nuyagi Keetoowah or the SECCI .... With 19,000 American Indian members that sort of verification should be easy to arrange. Otherwise... I really don't think this person should be promoting this website in NAFPS.

The good reputation of NAU is given in our dealings with others...and since you are not a member...with all due respect...you wouldnt know anything about that....I have read all your posts on this board...and it seems you call many Native people here into question..asking for names...adresses etc...post up your own Moma Porcupine...?? Ahh but you dont see the need...yet you are quick enough to judge others and try to discredit...yet you wish to be accepted...trusted..all while remaining annoymous...but no one else eh? A contradiction of terms.

Again laying concerns to rest...these concerns only seem to be coming from you...not one of our members have an issue with how we run our site...nor do they have any concern with anyone involved in the running of our site...only you....and you are not a member...so how would you know anything about how our site is run? You even stated yourself that you cannot view all of our site due to plugins.

EducatedIndian has not requested I varify anything with him...only YOU.

I do not promote NAU here...YOU are the one who told me I needed to post here regarding who we are and what we do...YOU....to which I did...and then you state I shouldnt be promoting NAU here....contradiction of terms again.

You asked me to post here...which I did...to which you atacked me as you do many others...then you went on to attack others on this thread...Witch Hunt springs to mind rather quickly...and Im getting rather tired of you making accusations and trying to cast doubts....when you are contradicting yourself with every word....and Im also sick of answering the same questions over and over again....read the WHOLE thread here...NAU is doing nothing wrong...dang there are real fakes and frauds out there that need dealing with...why are you wasting your time and energy picking apart people who work for their people for free...creating a safe place to come to...a place to gain information...you said you found it laughable that we are attempting to create unity while remaining annoymous...how do you define UNITY? Is it based on names...and addresses?? Or is it based on a large body of people who stand together and support each other? People who wish to do all they can for their people?? Im curious...because apparently you are under the opinion Unity is about "Hello my name is XXXXX XXXXXXXXX and I live at XXXXXXX" What is your problem with Native people wanting Unity?? Are we not entitled to it??

With respect,

Tsissy
There are no leaders in Unity


Offline wredgranny

  • Posts: 11
Re: Tsisqua
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2008, 07:01:01 pm »

 Siyo educatedindian,I have not seen you posting to powwow latly.
It is very strange to me,a "fraud" was brought here by usdi ulv,Tsisqua,and it are she who are repeatedly attacked by this "someone" moma porcupine,with demands Tsisqua tell who EXACTLY she are,and yet this "porcupines" does not need even a simple "polite" siyo I am? I have been reading here to you site,and am thinking it start out as a "good" place/idea,to help our Peoples find and STOP those taking without right "CEREMONY" of our Nations,selling,making yonega "god" the monies,and giving nothing back to our Peoples but grief,and more genocide.It has become instead a place to back bite,and attack some our OWN that certians do not like or agree with,rather than working TOGETHER,to help ALL our Nations protect each other from yonega.We are MANY Nations,and though it is true we are connected in some ways,agree and share "some" beliefs in common,there are wide and far differences as well,some are traditional,some christian,some follow STRICKTLY the OLD ways,some have less of the old ways to follow.It is sad to me to see some one I respect and care for to be treated so with disrespect,when I,know well how hard she work and the PERSONAL cost to herself,and then she attacked HERE by someone not even courage to say I is male or female,I am of THIS or that Nation,no one is saying give you personal information to all the world,but do NOT allow her/him,to demand that very thing from others. And,moma Poke you pine,you may attack ME all you wish, :D I am right here!In my eyes you deserve no respect,as you in every thread I,have read give none to any!
adadoligi granny