Tsisqua

[Moma_porcupine]

Wolfhawaii

EDITED TO ADD: If Tsisqua wanted me to verify who she is, I have some resources in Cherokee country and i am willing to do so if she is able to convince me she is who she says she is.....at this point I think it would be a good idea

Wofhawaii , it was already been mentioned that people have been in contact with respected  people in the Cherokee community and I have no idea why you are suggesting yourself for this.  Though you have repeatedly edited many of your posts in this thread , and some of your personal and nasty attacks on me have been removed , you obviously have a dog in this fight though you have not said what it is. And you are, or were, recently involved in befriending exploiters  Either you got involved supporting these people because you didn't know how to ask the right questions and your BS dectector isn't working very well, or you just didn't care what these people were up to. You have more than once brushed off official statements about correct cultural protocols from the CNO as " just their opinion". I have no idea why you imagine you are an unbiased person with trustworthy connections in the Cherokee community.

I suppose if you can help get someone we all agree is trustworthy like Al or Debbieredbear - get in touch with someone who can be verified to be in the UKB tribal council , and Tsiqua can provide enough information to this person that they can can confirm Tsisqua's claims - while allowing her to remain anonymous , what you are suggesting might be helpful - but if you expect us to just take you or some freind of yours word for this - i guess people can believe whatever they want, but after how you have treated me on this thread - that sure isn't going to work for me .

If Tsisqua wanted to confirm her stories through a more neutral person i would suggest she contact Al or Debbieredbear and ask who is was that I talked to who knows someone in th UKB tribal council, and how to get in touch with them . This person has a verifiable history of activism and is also a NAFPS member though they rarely post.   Their email is in their profile.

Wolfhawaii, I also need to point out that you deleted the post you made on April 15, and in doing so you broke an agreement you made with me. You asked me to edit my posts removing quotes and my responses to information you posted about yourself that you later decided you wanted to keep private. I edited my posts at your request , only because you agreed to post in this thread , acknowledging that you had edited your posts and that you asked me to do the same .

I see you removed this acknowledgement and replaced it with some letters that sound like something rude.

Re: Tsisqua and Moma porcupine
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2008
Wolfhawaii

WTFIWTS

I can't see any reason you would do this except  to make me feel violated -Kind of a strange thing to do if you want me to trust you as any kind of a go between ...

I don't want to drag this thread off topic by explaining why I don't think wolfhawaii should be displacing the authority that rightly belongs to respected Cherokee people who live in Cherokee communities - or by pointing out how he has repeatedly done this. 

Maybe I'll post this in another thread  ...

 But for now I want to say is I have found wolfhawaii to be both abusive and dishonest, I don't trust this person at all , and i don't see why anyone else who is paying attention would .

[wolfhawaii]

There you go again, MP.....I'm trying to help your cause and you attack me again.....and you think that you are trustworthy? You have attacked my personal integrity and posted personal information about me that caused me to be physically threatened. About all I have done to you was say you don't seem to be a very nice person. Why is it when someone disagrees with you you must attack them?
If you are really contemplating investigating me, do what you must . You know who i am.....get your "trusted Cherokee person" to ask the deputy chief of the UKB, or the chief of Echota and /or Redbird, or the head of Cherokee Studies at NSU about who I am and what kind of person I am. Regarding your comment about my supporting exploiters: I have met a great many people in my journey, some good, some not so good. Sometimes it takes a while to really find out about people, especially if they use false claims of relation and use that to worm their way in. I have gained insight from these experiences over time. If you use this rationale as a means to declare me untrustworthy then by your own words you are untrustworthy as well. I have never profitted from ndn culture, or encouraged anyone to take a path other than traditional culture.
EDITED TO ADD: In answer to your question of what dog I have in the fight.....FAIRNESS and BALANCE.

[Moma_porcupine]

There you go again, MP.....I'm trying to help your cause and you attack me again.....and you think that you are trustworthy? You have attacked my personal integrity and posted personal information about me that caused me to be physically threatened. About all I have done to you was say you don't seem to be a very nice person. Why is it when someone disagrees with you you must attack them?
If you are really contemplating investigating me, do what you must . You know who i am.....get your "trusted Cherokee person" to ask the deputy chief of the UKB, or the chief of Echota and /or Redbird, or the head of Cherokee Studies at NSU about who I am and what kind of person I am. Regarding your comment about my supporting exploiters: I have met a great many people in my journey, some good, some not so good. Sometimes it takes a while to really find out about people, especially if they use false claims of relation and use that to worm their way in. I have gained insight from these experiences over time. If you use this rationale as a means to declare me untrustworthy then by your own words you are untrustworthy as well. I have never profitted from ndn culture, or encouraged anyone to take a path other than traditional culture.
EDITED TO ADD: In answer to your question of what dog I have in the fight.....FAIRNESS and BALANCE.

Hmmm I always thought fairness and balance required some commitment to honesty ...

Wolf hawaii

I never disclosed any private information about you. That is an outright lie. You disclosed private information about yourself- apparently just so you could have the pleasure of accusing me of disclosing private information and endangering you ... I guess if there is nothing real I did wrong , you just need to make something up .... I never even knew the private information YOU disclosed, but I was nice enough to edit out where I quoted you and responded to the information YOU disclosed...  I have all this saved and could repost what was said before you began deleting your comments and asking me to do the same.

I don't want to let you drag this thread off topic, so if you want to talk about your deletions, lets go over here ...

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1801.0

[wolfhawaii]

You already drug it off thread and made it about me......but yes, let's adjourn to the other thread shall we? Got your cut and paste fingers all limbered up?

[bls926]

If there's anyone who's had a better experience with Tsisqua and/or NAU, or knows her/them to be who they say they are, please add to this thread or e-mail me directly.

It's been about a week and a half since I made this post. The only person who has responded is wolfhawaii. Even his support seemed lukewarm; IF Tsisqua could convince him of who she is, he'd get in touch with someone in the UKB to vouch for her. Looks like that hinges on Tsisqua being able to prove she's enrolled Keetoowah or at least known by someone in Cherokee country.

I have not received any e-mails, pro or con.

Tsisqua/Native American Unity doesn't seem to have much support at all.

Tsisqua hasn't logged into NAFPS since July 21st, when this all started to be made public. Being exposed as a fraud has to be embarrassing, especially when you've been so vocal about wannabees and cultural/spiritual appropriation.

Guess it is what it is.

[Defend the Sacred]

Well, like most everyone else I've stayed out of this, feeling I had nothing much to add to the discussion.

But at some point I think I voiced some concerns about misinformation on the NAU site (can't remember in which thread) and never got an answer.

I haven't looked at the whole NAU site. There does seem to be some useful introductory information. But other things, like these, had me concerned:

from http://www.freewebs.com/nativeamericanunity/nativemedicine.htm

Methods of healing include prayer, chanting, music, smudging (burning sage or aromatic woods), herbs, laying-on of hands, massage, counseling, imagery, fasting, harmonizing with nature, dreaming, sweat lodges, taking hallucinogens (e.g., peyote), developing inner silence, going on a shamanic journey, and ceremony.
...

Key Terms

Shaman

A person who serves as an intermediary between humans and the supernatural world, using special powers to cure illness, foretell the future, etc.

And this page http://www.freewebs.com/nativeunitysite/nativewriters.htm includes notorious fraud Charles ("Heywhatever") Storm ( http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=227.0 ) as a "Native American Author."

I'm always glad when people want to help with activism, but that sort of stuff on the website made me uncomfortable and unwilling to recommend it.

[earthw7]

I thought this was an introducation post should this post be moved to another section??
Just asking??

[bls926]

I thought this was an introducation post should this post be moved to another section??
Just asking??

Research Needed?? Sounds good to me.

[frederica]

You taking about the last one or the whole thing?

[Moma_porcupine]

If the thread gets broken up it will just be confusing. If people want it in research needed I guess that's OK, but personally I'm not sure that is necessary. As long as the information that raises some questions is available to people and they can find it OK  . People will probably find it OK here too.

Maybe we need a section for abandoned sock puppets .

[wolfhawaii]

I haven't heard anything from Tsisqua or any supporters asking me to verify who she is which seems odd if she was who she said she was.....it appears that she has flown the coop......

[frederica]

Maybe Wolf, One of her friends that posted said she was away. But gave no other information. It's been about 2 weeks.                     Moma P,  That's why I haven't moved it.  Not sure where to start. It will be confusing.

[zoi lightfoot]

With due respect!,Tsisqua at this time is in europe,nope she's not hiding,run away or has any reason to feel embarressed to my knowledge.You are just going to have to be patient and await her return rather than let the imaginations run riot huh!.

[Wolfsraven]

lol.......sounds to me like there is way too much "self importance" flying around.  You have all lost the main concept of fraud fighting and started in-fighting!  How.....IMMATURE!  Why is it so darned important to know everyone's personal identity?  Unless you have a good darn reason, then its no one else's business.  I think she did a nice introduction.

I'm on Tsissy's side.......    She got attacked right off the bat.  And for what?  Y'all could always play:  i'll show you mine if you show me yours.  How asinine!  I didn't intrduce myself.  Y'all gonna attack me now??  lol  go ahead....I have a bad case of the "don't givem no chits!"

[bls926]

I thought this was an introducation post should this post be moved to another section??
Just asking??

Research Needed?? Sounds good to me.

I don't think the thread should be broken up. It should stay intact, to let people know what Tsisqua and her organization truly are. Really don't know how much more research needs to be done; I think the facts presented speak for themselves.

I haven't heard anything from Tsisqua or any supporters asking me to verify who she is which seems odd if she was who she said she was.....it appears that she has flown the coop......

This doesn't surprise me. I think she's busy re-inventing herself. Doubt if any of us hear from Tsisqua again.

Maybe Wolf, One of her friends that posted said she was away. But gave no other information. It's been about 2 weeks.                     Moma P,  That's why I haven't moved it.  Not sure where to start. It will be confusing.

No one posted that Tsisqua had been "away"; that was from Matty's e-mail to me. Didn't believe it then; don't believe it now.

With due respect!,Tsisqua at this time is in europe,nope she's not hiding,run away or has any reason to feel embarressed to my knowledge.You are just going to have to be patient and await her return rather than let the imaginations run riot huh!.

That dog don't hunt. Didn't run away, isn't hiding, no reason to be embarrassed? Tsisqua's in Europe? Please. Tsisqua lives in Ireland. That country is part of Europe, right? The number of half-truths and out-right lies she's been caught in should embarrass her.

lol.......sounds to me like there is way too much "self importance" flying around.  You have all lost the main concept of fraud fighting and started in-fighting!  How.....IMMATURE!  Why is it so darned important to know everyone's personal identity?  Unless you have a good darn reason, then its no one else's business.  I think she did a nice introduction.

I'm on Tsissy's side.......    She got attacked right off the bat.  And for what?  Y'all could always play:  i'll show you mine if you show me yours.  How asinine!  I didn't intrduce myself.  Y'all gonna attack me now??  lol  go ahead....I have a bad case of the "don't givem no chits!"

Yes, the purpose of this forum is to expose fakes and flakes. Whether someone is a member of NAFPS should not matter. A fraud is a fraud. Infighting? Not really. I call it exposing frauds. It's not about knowing everyone's personal identity. It's about claiming to be something you aren't. It's about claiming a culture and spirituality that does not belong to you. It's about being honest.

You think Tsisqua did a "nice introduction"? On the surface it may seem that way; but it's fake. It's full of lies, always "with respect", but lies none the less. I don't like to be lied to, no matter how much respect is served with it. And that "self importance" you wrote about . . . Tsisqua is the master of that.

Claiming to have lost a relative who died protecting a sacred burial site crossed the line. Knowing how we all feel about family, our ancestors, sacred sites and using that to up your "Indianness" is wrong.