Author Topic: Choctaw Chocolates?  (Read 12090 times)

Offline Mo

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Choctaw Chocolates?
« on: March 07, 2005, 11:42:17 pm »
I am not even sure what to say about this. Look for yourself.

http://choctawchocolates.com/journey.html?session=AkLbFI4d6nVYbLeM4vM9LPBil8

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 02:08:50 am »
Well, they both look like they would be great on an infomercial. There are many oral traditions of Maya people migrating north, most of which academia wants to ignore and sometimes I am glad about this.  But here I quote them

"Coincidentally, the legendary leader of the Mayan peoples, Kulkulcan, the Plumed Serpent, in the Yucatan peninsula made his great escape traveling northeast out into this same Gulf of Mexico. A look at a map can detect an easy route to North America and the fertile ground of the Mississippi Valley"

Kulkucan was not a Maya leader but rather Creator and did not escape. And it was the Aztec variation on Kulcukan, Quetezcoatl who left by sea but he went east not north,  but that doesn't make a difference as to their website.  The whole Maya tie-in is for promotional purposes.

Anyway, to whoever wrote this post, I would suggest sending an e-mail to the Choctow in Oklahoma if you are concerned and ask if he is enrolled and if they know about this website.

Joseph

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2005, 05:16:13 am »
Ever watch Gunspoke or Bonanza?

Every once in a while some guy in a covered wagon came through town with some "magic elixor"that would cure everything from warts to the flu to a stomach or headache to an infection due to any number of wounds?

Wonder why those tv writers never thought up Choctaw Chocolates?


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 06:37:27 pm »
One of my advisors in my master's program was a Choctaw professor, Donna Akers. She talked about Choctaw origin stories several times, and never mentioned any Mayan connection.

Adudell claims to be a registered member "with quantum enough to hold tribal office" as though there were separate quantums for enrollment and tribal office. A bit strange. But Adudell is a common Choctaw name.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 06:59:09 pm »
Actually, Al, I read back a few months ago that the Choctaw's had changed their constitution to read that one must be 1/4 Choctaw to hold office. Think it was in Native Voice, but I am not sure.

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 11:47:23 am »
I wote the guy. Have to say he sounds "legit" from genealogy and Choctaw history perspective, but what he said was a bit troubling considering "chocolate" and his desire to ?learn or teach? "shamanistic" traditions.

He mentions Masonic Lodges. Masonic Lodges were really big in the early days of Indian Territory by "bigshot, wealthy" Indian families, most -- no pretty much all -- of whom sided with the Confederacy during the American Civil War -- The sword Duwali had when he was killed near Tyler Tx in 1839 is in one of those Masonic Lodges.

Basically I was pretty blunt, and he responded about like I thought he would if he was for real, sorta defensive yet telling a little of his family history. I should have asked him about his "regalia" in those photos online -- not Choctaw at all, that's for sure -- forgot to tho, darn it.

=================

Here is his reply --

Halito, Chim Achukma;

My wife received your messege and I am happy to respond to your questions. I
am a CDIB registered and recognized member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma
with 1/4 blood quantum recognized by the BIA as such. I am also of
Scandinavian and French ancestry whose family origins were also from
Mississippi. My father was an original enrollee of the Choctaw Nation. My
grandfather and father were fluent Choctaw speakers and I have some
familiarity with the language but find it difficult to find anyone with whom
to speak. Choctaw Imanumpa Ish Anumpoli Hinla Ho? I was raised in Oklahoma
until the age of 13 and was then relocated due to personal situations. I am
currently a member of the Skiatook Masonic Lodge in Skiatook, Oklahoma and
was initiated into the Lodge by the Oklahoma Masonic Indian Degree Team
composed of CDIB registered Indians.  This group was founded by Will Rogers
and is a carry over of the Grand Lodge of Indian Territory composed of the
Choctaw, Cherokee and Muskogee Creek Lodges which was disrupted by the Civil
War, the Charter of said Lodge is still in the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma in
Guthrie. One of the founders of the Choctaw Lodge was Chief Peter Pitchlynn
who was also the first Indian Knight Commander in Royal Arch and is known to
be instrumental in establishing the Choctaw Lighthorsemen all of which my
family were participants. I have subsequently, returned to Oklahoma on many
occasions one of which is to assist Indian Degree Team director, Terry
Adams, to put on their grand yearly Pow Wow at the Tulsa Civic Center.
Currently, being that I am derived from the Louisiana and Gulf Coast
Choctaws, I am honing my skills in split cane basketry. Do you have any
skills in this area?

As to the theory of chocolate it has the same relationship to the Americas
as Tea does to Asia or Coffee to Africa being indigenous to the Western
Hemisphere.  It was known to be used as an instrument of trade and monetary
exchange as such. There are many theories which abound concerning the
origins of the Okla Choctaw. One is that they came from the west led by the
two brothers Choctaw and Chickasaw who were led by a kohta (flagstaff),
probably some form of gnomen, terminating in Nanih Waiya. Another as told by
Peter Pitchlynn is that they came from the Okhata Chito Nutaka ( the Under
Sea), the Caribbean Sea. Apparently the Okla Choctaw had different origins
one of which may be that which is implied by Chief Pitchlynn. I am
interested in communicating with any truly serious people concerning the
traditional, shamanic history and beliefs of the Okla Choctaw. Hope to hear
from you soon.

Chim Anya Achukma Hoke

Clifton Aduddell

==========

Conclusion --

He is Choctaw,  but that "Choctaw Chocolate concept" still troubles me. Sounds fishy. I really didn't see where he tied Chocolate to the Choctaw people. Says it was used in trade. Maybe in Southern Mexico and the Yucatan, but I doubt it was "traded in as currency" in Mississippi, where the Choctaw lived.

He mentions his skills in basketry -- I thought that was "woman's work" in earlier times. Well, we do live in the 21st century . . . :)

He said he was interested in "serious" people concerning the "shamanistic traditions" of the Oklahoma Choctaw. Thought that was a bit odd, and possibly the most troubling thing he said . . .

vance

Offline lizditz

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2005, 07:56:54 am »
I laughed out loud-- the man's tribal status is irrelevant.  The presentation reminded me of the Irish Dance fellow, Michael Flatley.  All that fringe!  All the colors! The sincere gaze and the flat stomach!

Thanks for the laugh.

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 08:56:04 am »

----- Original Message -----
From: "Teresa" <maya1@gte.net>
To: "Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:43 AM

well here's his email address. Looks like his name is "Teresa". Interesting using "Maya" as a handle since they claim Choctaw got their chocloate from the Maya I suppose.

I bet that Indian family who were eating dinner had no idea what he was gonna be using that photo for.

vance

Lawrence Sampson

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Re: Choctaw Chocolates?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2005, 01:39:00 am »
This is a legitimate tribally owned enterprise by the tribe in Oklahoma

L