Blackwater Muskogee tribe

[bls926]

Research complete; needs to be moved to Frauds.

[zoi lightfoot]

Thank you,thats all i asked for in the first place,I will leave the main body of the Blackwater to your selves as they are in the States and I will speak with the two here AND the Billingtons.As the Billingtons themselves have some other matters to clarify with the ex pat community.

[bls926]

It's Powwow time in Germany again.

http://home.arcor.de/muskokee/pow09.htm

Mvskoke Ocese a-cee we-wau
8. NATIVE AMERICAN POW-WOW
Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokees e.V.
30. & 31. Mai 2009
In Mengen, Landkreis Sigmaringen, Germany
auf dem Gelände des Festplatzes Mengen.
Schirmherrschaft ist die Stadt Mengen i.V. Herr Burgermeister Bubeck.
Pow-wow Organisations-Kontaktperson: Benny & Marianne Auer Tel. 0162-2923763 (Benny) oder Tel. 0173-4305647 (Marianne)



MUSKOKEE-POWWOW-TIME IN SEPTEMBER
9. NATIVE AMERICAN POW-WOW
Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokees e.V.
12. & 13. September 2009
in Heilbronn-Horkheim, Germany
auf dem Gelände neben dem Steinbruchbetrieb BMK
Anfahrt Horkheim

This Pow-wow is dedicated to
our European host as a cultural exchange of friendship
 
Special Guests (Subject to change)
Trisha Nell Sokolowski & son Cherokee
Barbara Kaden Wetz Ojibwa
Brenda Volle Ojibwa
Liz Roemer Cherokee-Creek
Linda Lou Flewin Micmac
Rita Schmidt Ojibwa
Lakishia Wallace Choctaw
Larry Wynn & family Lakota
Alan Roy & family Lakota
Willie James Summers Cherokee
Robert Wallace & family Ojibwa
Bryan K McCollum & family Creek
Robert Parker & family Ojibwa
Peter Woener Choctaw-Creek
John Blackbird Cree
Frank Barber Shawnee
Elder Mark Kretschmer
Bill & Antonia Westerfield
Jack & Gabe Weber

MC: Willi James Summers & Mark Kretschmer
AD: Alan Roy & Bill Westerfield
Men’s Head Dancer: Robert Wallace & Jack Weber
Women’s Head Dancer: Lakishia Wallace & Antonia Westerfield
Host Drum: Wicahpi Oyate Drum aus der Schweiz
Guest Drum: Sweetgrass Indian Drum Singers aus Deutschland
Amp & Sound Techniker: Heinz Wellmann

Pow-wow Organisations-Kontaktperson: Benny & Marianne Auer Tel. 0162-2923763 (Benny) oder Tel. 0173-4305647 (Marianne)
 

[frederica]

Well, this is still confusing.  I don't see TTT/Francis involved but my understanding from the July 18 post that the Blackwater was not a band, rather a Stomp Dance group.  And people had distanced themselves from them as TTT was parading around with the Blackwater Flag.  Are they doing Stomps at Powwows now?

[bls926]

Well, this is still confusing.  I don't see TTT/Francis involved but my understanding from the July 18 post that the Blackwater was not a band, rather a Stomp Dance group.  And people had distanced themselves from them as TTT was parading around with the Blackwater Flag.  Are they doing Stomps at Powwows now?

I don't know what's so confusing about it. The Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokees is part of the great Wannabe Nation. Nichols, Roemer, and anyone else involved with this group are PODIA's at best, hobbyists at worst case scenario. They do not have the support of either the Creek Nation or the Poarch Band of Creek Indians.

Frederica, where did you get the idea that the Blackwater was a Stomp Dance group? To the Mvskoke, and others, Stomp Dance is ceremony, a special time. To link this group of frauds with Stomp Dance is insulting.

People had distanced themselves because of a couple of English fakes? Well, maybe. Those two are obvious frauds. It's people like Nichols, Roemer, et al that are the real problem. Even though they were not raised in their culture and do not have the support of their Nation, because they have a drop or two of Native blood, they think they have the right to represent Native Americans in Europe. That's the real problem.

[bls926]

In light of the fact that Larry Nichols is still associated with the Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokee and Liz Roemer will be a "special guest" at the September Powwow:

To clarify matters, both Larry and I resigned from the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee
over 2 years ago due to the lack of proper leadership and sheer stupidity. Neither of us is
responsible for the actions of this group and we will not answer any questions about them.
Period.

I am posting because Francis and T/T/T are now parading around the UK Hobbyist scene with
the flag of the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee and claiming they are part of this band.
I have emailed the Blackwater Band about this and have been informed they are not a band but
are stomp dancers. So I guess that explains the Billingtons doing a stomp dance at the Bison Farm
PowWow last week.

In closing, please label the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee appropriately. Larry and I
are deeply embarassed by their decision to condone this type of activity by the Billingtons with the
"stamp of approval" of the Blackwater Band. Neither Larry or I had anything to do with this decision
and are as shocked and dismayed as the rest of the Natives reading this post and allowing Twinkies
and WannaBes to disgrace all Natives in such a manner is positively vile. The Blackwater Band should
be ashamed of themselves. I know I am certainly ashamed of them.

Crow with a loud voice

[frederica]

In light of the fact that Larry Nichols is still associated with the Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokee and Liz Roemer will be a "special guest" at the September Powwow:

To clarify matters, both Larry and I resigned from the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee
over 2 years ago due to the lack of proper leadership and sheer stupidity. Neither of us is
responsible for the actions of this group and we will not answer any questions about them.
Period.
I am posting because Francis and T/T/T are now parading around the UK Hobbyist scene with
the flag of the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee and claiming they are part of this band.
I have emailed the Blackwater Band about this and have been informed they are not a band but
are stomp dancers. So I guess that explains the Billingtons doing a stomp dance at the Bison Farm
PowWow last week.

Crow with a loud voice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is exactly where I got it from her July 18 quote.  I am well aware of what a Stomp is, apparently they are not.

[bls926]

In light of the fact that Larry Nichols is still associated with the Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokee and Liz Roemer will be a "special guest" at the September Powwow:

To clarify matters, both Larry and I resigned from the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee
over 2 years ago due to the lack of proper leadership and sheer stupidity. Neither of us is
responsible for the actions of this group and we will not answer any questions about them.
Period.
I am posting because Francis and T/T/T are now parading around the UK Hobbyist scene with
the flag of the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee and claiming they are part of this band.
I have emailed the Blackwater Band about this and have been informed they are not a band but
are stomp dancers. So I guess that explains the Billingtons doing a stomp dance at the Bison Farm
PowWow last week.

Crow with a loud voice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is exactly where I got it from her July 18 quote.  I am well aware of what a Stomp is, apparently they are not.

I think Roemer is saying that the Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokee, in Florida, stated that Francis and T/T/T  "are not a band but are stomp dancers". No one said that the Blackwater Band, either the group in Florida or the group in Germany, were Stomp Dancers. Truth of the matter, both groups are frauds.

I find it interesting that Roemer started that statement (dated July 18, 2008) by telling us that she and Nichols "resigned from the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee over 2 years ago". That would make it roughly late spring, early summer 2006. Why is Nichols still doing the Blackwater Powwows? Every year since 2002; hasn't missed a year. Why is Roemer still associating with them? She's a special guest in September.

[frederica]

That's why it is confusing, it is doublespeak.  Or a really poor memory.

[Moma_porcupine]

At least I don't see anything about Larry claiming to be Chief or ambassador any more. Thats a definite improvement ...

Organizers:
Blackwater Band of Lower Germany Muskokees e.V.
     
Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokees
1. Chairman: Larry D. Nichols

[Elke]

oh, I think it is not so confusing.....

I was at that PW once- as trader and don't ask me about it... it could be that I won't be friendly... when I will describe it in friendly words....

For Larry- nearly all NA people living here are not real NAs just he and his friends are.  Well known names, respected people--- he kick at their ass, as he says (looong telephone call we hat)- because they are not NDN....
He is against everything , people doing sweats here for money and so on--- all bad (I personally dont like this either) but one guy- I really know he did sweats for money--- he is ok (because he once was at Larrys Powwow)-- at that telephone call- I just could shake my had.

So-- the thing is-- to make a real NA powwow- he simply does not have the people. No well respected NA is still going there, as far as I know- (But I don't know all that are on that list)-- so what should he do- he just can do it as ever.

--- So I don't wonder....

But thanks to all for that informations.

Thank you says Elke

[bls926]

oh, I think it is not so confusing.....

I was at that PW once- as trader and don't ask me about it... it could be that I won't be friendly... when I will describe it in friendly words....

For Larry- nearly all NA people living here are not real NAs just he and his friends are.  Well known names, respected people--- he kick at their ass, as he says (looong telephone call we hat)- because they are not NDN....
He is against everything , people doing sweats here for money and so on--- all bad (I personally dont like this either) but one guy- I really know he did sweats for money--- he is ok (because he once was at Larrys Powwow)-- at that telephone call- I just could shake my had.

So-- the thing is-- to make a real NA powwow- he simply does not have the people. No well respected NA is still going there, as far as I know- (But I don't know all that are on that list)-- so what should he do- he just can do it as ever.

--- So I don't wonder....

But thanks to all for that informations.

Thank you says Elke

What should Nichols do? Oh, I don't know . . . Maybe quit playing Indian. What do you think?

[Elke]

I don't know....

the situation among some people here is something confuse. After ca 2 Years of battles between some powwow groups here everything is somehow separated. His Powwow is one of the ones I don't go- one time was much to much. Otherwise here the world is small and when something is out of the box- it is impossible to get it in as it was.

I don't know....

The only thing I know- as many others: I will not go to that powwow anymore, because of what happened these years ago...

http://www.powwow-kalender.de/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=3&thread=79&page=2

This thread in a German forum started about a falen Roach on a German Powwow, where a dancer (I just can shake my head about his behavior) didn't behave correct..... but funny is this illustre discussion that came later-- from all these illustre people that argues to defend their native herritage (most of them are listed here...you don't have to ask me where)

Most of the thread starting at the 2nd page is written in English- the importand parts of it.....

Smilling dream Crow- Liz Roemer
Hanswurst- as far as I know it is her husband
Tonya Hountingwolf- a relative to Larry Nichols
Holla ---me

Funny how these guys define their NA status and how they argue to people that never ever will say they have family relations to NA people and who definitively will tell everybody that they are powwow dancers AND white AND nothing between. Funny how things change, if they are doing them and when others do them- when the thread was written- I had not seen, that Tonya is a healing stone trader--- so bad--- my arguing would be much better if knowing this--- tooo bad!

Yes- I know, you don't like white powwow dancers and I accept this.



Liz, 26.May 2005:
" I am usually sick for days after going to Hobbyist PowWows"

I really don't know why I met her later at Bison Farm powwow and why she still seems to go to English Powwows when she is so sick afterwards.....




Greetings from ELke

 

[Ingeborg]

The lady going by the name of Tonya Hountingwolf is no relative of Larry Nichols. She is a German posing as a Cherokee, her legal name in Germany at the point in time she wrote in that forum was Tanja Fehlauer; presently she is married to Francis Billington, a British citizen who claims to be a clairvoyant. They're both exploiting ndn spirituality. There is a thread on them here in the fraud section, titled Grey Wolf and Tonya.

[bls926]

That forum was a hoot! A bunch of wannabes telling a bunch of hobbyists what is and isn't the "Native Way".

Below are some of their posts, with my thoughts added. I didn't quote the entire thing; no point in posting the German.


Powwow-Forum
http://www.powwow-kalender.de/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=3&thread=79&page=2


It upsets Liz when Germans try to tell Indians what their customs should be. Yeah, bothers me too when non-Natives pretend to be Native.

Montag, 23. Mai. 2005, 17:14
I am deeply distressed by this topic of discussion. The majority of your were not at Burbach and are only going by what you have heard .... GOSSIP. Others are mixing Native American beliefs and/or customs with New Age BS. And others are giving me the distinct impression that, again, Germans are trying to tell us Native Americans what our customs should or shouldn´t be and how things should or shouldn´t be done.
Smiling Dream Crow

Tonya doesn't understand why some people try to pretend to be someone they aren't. We don't understand that either.

Montag, 23. Mai. 2005, 19:14
Hello everybody , ( English and German Version )
First of all, I cannot understand, why our culture will be discussed in a place like that. And all those who don´t know what they are talking about, need to stop discussing. Our culture is not for sale, nor is it for people who want to tell us how to be native.

I feel ashamed for my part german, because again some wannabees try to tell everybody, that they know everything about our ways ( even they know nothing about it ).

And I will never get the point, why some people try to be somebody else, instead of being proud of what they are.

I was not in Burbach. And I am glad, that I didn´t went.
But I will say one more thing :
If you are going to a Pow Wow, then you are welcome, as long as you don´t pretend to be native or tell us how to be native. If you honor our ways, culture and traditions, then there is nothing wrong with it. But if you kick our culture and pretend to be native or pretend to know everything better, than you better not show up at a Pow Wow again.
Tonya Hountingwolf

Poor benzi doesn't realize he isn't talking to Native Americans.

Montag, 23. Mai. 2005, 22:15
Hallo,
thank you for your postings. May be the discussion in this internet forum can change something in the mind of somebody, who knows.

For me, it was the only place were I can talk with somebody about the problems between the natives and the german Pow Wow dancers, like that one in Burbach.

I don´t know who are the persons behind the nicks in this forum.

So when I read something about indian culture and religion, I didn´t know, was it written by a german or a native member of this forum.

I was very surprised about the fact, that here was talking about the indian religion.

I hope we can find a way to respect each other and dance together in the future.......

best wishes for you all and I hope there are not so many mistakes inside

benzi

"Proven Native American"? He forgot Descendant. Six generations . . . his great-great-great-great-grandmother. The Blackwater Band of Lower Muskokee is not a Nation; it's not a Tribe. Nichols is not recognized as Mvskoke by the Creek Nation or the Poarch Band of Creek Indians.

Dienstag, 24. Mai. 2005, 11:33
Yes, it is true that I speak out about abuse of our Native American culture and traditions and have even won legal battles, and will continue to win in your German Court rooms trying to protect our culture, traditions and dignity.

Your German laws give me the RIGHT as a "proven Native American" to speak out to those that will abuse and misuse our Native American culture. Now, if that is a problem for you Sir, there are several ways to settle this problem of yours. I am a generous man and will give you the opportunity of choice, to make yourself clear and to show all of us what honor and respect you have if any.

I,m not here to tell any one to shout their mouths! But when individuals talk about my people, culture and traditions, which from my point of view is totally full of bullshit, misuse and no respect what so ever, due to the fact that these people have very little knowledge if any, about Native Americans in general, which they have seen on their T.V. sets and read some Karl May books. So, I am telling you Sir, do what you think is right, I will be here.

Chief Larry D. Nichols
Lower Muskokee/Creek
Tribal European Representative

For someone claiming to be Cherokee/Creek, Liz really doesn't know much about either Nation's spirituality. Powwows are not "holy"; they aren't even traditional. 

Dienstag, 24. Mai. 2005, 13:17
A forum on the Internet is not the proper place to discuss what did or did not happen there and it certainly is not the proper place to discuss our religious beliefs and/or ceremonies.

I honestly do not know how to get the message across that PowWows are holy for us and our religion is so intertwined with our PowWows, daily life, etc. that it is extremely difficult to say what is recreational and what is religious. If in doubt, it is advisable to be quiet and listen so as not to offend.

Chief Nichols, Tonya Hounting Wolf and I will be at the PowWow in Heilbronn. We are more than willing to share our culture with those who show RESPECT. If you have any questions, please feel free to come there and speak with us
Smiling Dream Crow
(Liz Roemer)

Here we go again with the "sacred" powwow. Doesn't Tonya claim to be Cherokee? You'd think these wannabes would do a little more research.

Mittwoch, 25. Mai. 2005, 00:35
And we will not tolerate, when some people think, that they have to offer " Seminars about sweatlodges " or anything like this for expensive money.
Those things are sacred to us, the same like a Pow Wow is sacred to us. And nobody should play with it, the same like nobody should play with Eaglefeathers or misshonor those things.
Tonya