WRedGranny Spreading Lies on Other Websites

[educatedindian]

It seems as though Granny has thrown a fit and is now doing her best to try to undermine other groups that NAFPS works with, such as American Indian Injustice. She posted a long rambling piece of libel in here that was tossed away, and then reposted it in AIJ.

Here's my response, which I asked someone who is also a member of AIJ to post over there.

-----------------------------

Granny has NOT been banned from NAFPS. And that is being incredibly generous since she has seen fit to gather up most of the libel put out about NAFPS and myself by one spiritual exploiter and dubious character after another.
 
Even worse, she chose to repeat lies put out by white supremacist David Yeagley and his supporters about me. Why she chose to believe such bizarre and obvious falsehoods, and even spread them far and wide, is something she should be ashamed of, and needs to explain.
 
No, she has not been banned, even after her repeatedly abusive behavior, exploding in anger and attacking one member of NAFPS after another without reason. Just the opposite, she's been given the benefit of the doubt because I've known her a long time online through groups such as Ancient Native Heritage and its powwow group.
 
She is just temporarily not allowed to post, in the hopes that she will regain her senses, calm down, and grow up. She has been allowed to get away with behavior that no one else would have been, again, because I knew her online for so long and once had respect for her.
 
I respected her when she took on exploiters, when she spoke up for her people, and when she took on Yeagley and his fellow racists, getting herself banned in the process.
 
I have a hard time understanding now why she chooses to believe every lie out about NAFPS, and spread them further. Heck, she doesn't even get my name right. She gets it wrong repeatedly, and she can't even tell the difference between ceremony selling and my going over to Europe to give speeches AGAINST ceremony selling.
 
She can't even tell the difference between the 600 Indian members of NAFPS and a couple of members of the "Blackwater Band", a heritage group of people with distant descent from Muscogees that is not recognized by the actual Muscogee, who go over to Europe and hand out honorary memberships to Germans and claim to be ambassadors for a tribe that is not even a real tribe.
 
This is not right, and she needs to own up to all the harm she is doing. She owes myself and NAFPS an apology.
 
A few members of Blackwater do some good, and Granny herself used to do what is good and right. It's just a shame they spend so much energy attacking without cause over 600 Indians fighting the good fight over at NAFPS. And that includes working with members of American Indian Injustice, fighting frauds like Rachel Holzwarth and working to support honored elders like Bernard Red Cherries in these struggles.
Al Carroll

[frederica]

I am suprised with all the problems Thomas and Helen have had, they would even let her post that. As it was clearly off the wall so to speak.

[Moma_porcupine]

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=2809487911
A while back I noticed wredgranny  is on line friends with Steve Stonebear ( supposedly  he was or is the Principal Chief of the Nation of The United Cherokee Nation )

A thread is on him here;

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=732.msg9907#msg9907

( begins reply #12 )

I see she is also friends with Bear Warrior (he was or is one of the so called Chiefs of the The United People of the Cherokee Nation ).  A thread about that group with some posts from him is here ;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=802.0;all

Bear Warrior was also friend of Ravens , and Raven was also involved in speaking out against frauds but then attacked NAFPS and got involved supporting John Lekay. 

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=835.msg7266#msg7266
(see reply #24 )

This might not be what is going on with wredgranny, but it seems that doing activist work can be some mixed blood peoples way of trying to establish an identity as a Native person , and when these people have to choose between their questionable friends who accept them as Native , and what traditional Elders and Leaders say , ( or even just common sense ) they will often choose to support their friends .

I do notice it is me being skeptical of some groups that claim to be, or claim to represent Native people that seems to upset her.

------------------
edited to add ;

I guess for people who haven't been following this , I should give people links to the threads where this disagreement happened.

wredgranny's first post was here. In the Tribal America thread . Her post here was about tribal America not me.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1439.0

All the rest of her posts are in the threads below;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1674.0;all

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1735.0

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1739.0;all
In this thread above , I mention she has posted 12 times but it seems 3 posts were deleted. I'm not sure where they were . One was in the Blackwater Muskokee thread.

[Kevin]

Red Granny - what a name!

[Moma_porcupine]

educatedindian

No, she has not been banned, even after her repeatedly abusive behavior, exploding in anger and attacking one member of NAFPS after another without reason

Below is a link to the webpage with her complaint against NAFPS.

I  think this is probably the reason my doubts and questions made her mad , and probably why she doesn't like NAFPS.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Native_American_Issues_Causes/message/16082

WRedGranny

We,are an ancient,loving,giving Peoples,it has always been more important to HELP others,than make sure SELF is seen as important. We,care about our Mother Earth,our Skies(air),our Waters,our animal kin,our Elders,our children,we HONOR Creator THROUGH  our Ceremonies,dance,song,prayers. We,reach outr to make other feel better,to give them hope,to share the stories that many through the bad times lost,and we KNOW,there are those of mixed bloods,whose families ran,hid,and tried hard to live as the others for their CHILDRENS lives. When,and where we can,we reach out to them,help- them find their kin/connections,and yet we also watch that Ceremony,tradition,and family are kept safe from those who wish only to make money,steal the names/heritage of our Nations to do so,and it is as it should be. But,we do NOT disrespect,and mistreat each other,no matter what Nation,and until it is proven that one making claims is NOT of that Nation,(even Chad Smith admitted there were Tsalagi cousins who could NEVER be enrolled as their ancest5ors REFUSED to be listed like a pedigree animal on the "Rolls" for fear they could be tracked in this way and killed) but they are STILL blood kin. The "Rolls" were set up to define "Blood Quantum" in one more effort at genocide,as they knew(the whites) each generation would hold less and less quantum,until the "government" could declare there was no such thing as a REAL Blood Indian,unless we inter married,and that too held not only dangers,but was forbidden. So, WHO is Al Carroll,and what is his place in all this,he has repeatedly allowed his Euros to DEMAND we "prove" who and what we are,it is time HE,and they do the same. Or,stop disrespecting REAL First Peoples,and allow us to define ourselves WITHOUT their (tender) mercies they have shown us,like their ancestors,they feel their "Manifest Destiny" gives them the RIGHT,we,are finding our OWN voice again,we have proved we can unite ALL Nations to defend ourselves,FIGHT on my kin,I am so very proud to have lived long enough to see these days. For my grandchildren,and for you own,we CAN do this!
many blessings granny

So I guess this is what upsets her. She has mentioned her strong feelings about distant descendants right to claim themselves as Indians, in her other posts as well .

What seems odd is that she has so quickly gone on the offensive . Especially as i have a lot of sympathy towards PODIAs ... The only thing I don't agree with , is when it gets into entitlements, and letting peoples small amount of Native blood be used in a political way to confuse and undermine the identites and soverienty of recognized tribes.

If that is lost, PODIAs won't have anything.

Personally , if it was me, I would sure rather my grandkids have a strong tribal community to sometimes connect with , and can sometimes meet real Elders, but have no entitlements , than a world full of lost people trying to recreate what they imagine was Indian culture because their gr gr gr grandma was Cherokee... .

 As I see it   without the  tribes that are strong enough to have been federally recognized , being a reference point in this ,  anti Indian groups such as One Nation and these so called tribes that declare "everybody with a drop of Indian blood is an Indian " ,  are heading towards exactly the same goal , assimilation and the extinguishment of tribal Nations as distinct cultures, communities and political entities.   

But that is just my own point of view...

[frederica]

Moma, I not exactly sure where she is coming from. She seems not to be able to seperate people who exploit from those just finding their culture. The majority  of people claiming heritage are just and only doing that. They want nothing except to learn. They are not selling arts and crafts and not claiming to be something they are not, like a medicine person.  There are many that are active in helping, the rest just are interested in learning. I don't think I know of anyone that has a problem with that. The Nuage era has brought about an overwelming number of people that now mix Indian Ceremonies with the Nuage, Eastern Religions, and whatever else they do. And of course, they charge large sums of money for the same. It becomes corrupt. But you already know all this. But I do know much of the information off the TN list is not reliable, that is from last year when TS, and another were sending  out dirt from that mess. And the woman they are quoting has been called down before for posting bad information and having to pull it down. So a lot of the dirt is just what it is just plain gossip dirt. But if she wants to support the Brooke Medicine Shield, Mary Thunders, and White Ego Woman there is not much anyone can do about it.

[LittleOldMan]

Mama PO,   Frederica:  Respect and being respectful is one of the Hallmarks of being from a Native American Culture.  When someone violates this principle I want to understand why.  I will watch and investigate.  This may be only a temporary lapse due to some circumstance within the persons life and may naturally correct itself.  If the person seems to be truly out of balance further watching and or investigation may be necessary.  After as much information as can be obtained is found this information is turned over to the Tribe, Nation,  or Group to which this person is affiliated.  It is then the Council and Elders responsibility to rectify the situation.  It has been my experience that acting in this way gets results.  Of course this only works if the person is affiliated with a recognized entity.  If they are not than they meet the definition of fraud, do they not, and should be reported as such.  Two cents offered with respect "LittleOldMan"

[Moma_porcupine]

I agree that most people wanting to learn or heal their connection with the indigenous part of their heritage are good people, and that is one of the reasons I don't like to see people make outrageously extravagant claims of entitlement - because it creates so much mistrust and hostility towards PODIAs. In my opinion the only place this reconnection can truly happen , is with a strong continuosly existing tribal community. Tribal Nations already have a hard enough time having their rights and existence recognized by mainstream America , without having this confused by distant descendants making grandious claims. 

I do believe everybodys real needs deserve respect, just not necesarrily how they go about trying to meet these needs . Often there is a better way.

[Kevin]

My colleague is 1/8th Choctaw. He doesn't go around pretending to be an Indian but he does advocate for NA issues and he reads alot and learns. He doesn't seem to want to change who and what he is. There is a big difference between being diluted and deluded.

[frederica]

I agree with you LOM, usually time will tell.  Usually things can be worked out without the unprovoked fllaming you see on the internet. But the attempt to control everything with disrespect always takes me back, and makes me wonder.

[bls926]

Wredgranny on May 12, 2008

So, WHO is Al Carroll,and what is his place in all this,he has repeatedly allowed his Euros to DEMAND we "prove" who and what we are,it is time HE,and they do the same. Or,stop disrespecting REAL First Peoples,and allow us to define ourselves WITHOUT their (tender) mercies they have shown us,like their ancestors,they feel their "Manifest Destiny" gives them the RIGHT,we,are finding our OWN voice again,we have proved we can unite ALL Nations to defend ourselves,FIGHT on my kin,I am so very proud to have lived long enough to see these days. For my grandchildren,and for you own,we CAN do this!
many blessings granny

For someone demanding to know who Al Carroll is and what right he or his "Euros" have to question anyone, Granny sure hasn't been forthcoming with who she really is. It's one thing to refuse to give your real name or what Nation you're from and another to pretend to be something you aren't. All the badgering Moma has endured about what Nation she's from is really unnecessary. She hasn't pretended to be anything. She doesn't come across as "speaking for" any Nation, group, or organization. The same can be said for Al. The only cause they speak for is truth, and I wasn't aware ethnicity mattered when you're fighting for truth. Granny, on the other hand, calls herself a Cherokee Elder and writes like she's 80. In reality she's a 50 year-old blonde. I don't have anything against 50 year-old women or blondes, but don't pretend to be something you aren't. Calling yourself 'granny' doesn't make you an Elder.

No one on NAFPS has been disrespectful. Yes, I did call that one thread 'crazy' and a few of the posters 'ridiculous', cause it was and they were. Those were about the most respectful terms I could find for the nonsense. Nothing in the posts Granny has made here on NAFPS or on other websites could be called respectful by any stretch of the imagination.

[wredgranny]

"So I guess this is what upsets her. She has mentioned her strong feelings about distant descendants right to claim themselves as Indians, in her other posts as well .

What seems odd is that she has so quickly gone on the offensive . Especially as i have a lot of sympathy towards PODIAs ... The only thing I don't agree with , is when it gets into entitlements, and letting peoples small amount of Native blood be used in a political way to confuse and undermine the identites and soverienty of recognized tribes.

If that is lost, PODIAs won't have anything.

Personally , if it was me, I would sure rather my grandkids have a strong tribal community to sometimes connect with , and can sometimes meet real Elders, but have no entitlements , than a world full of lost people trying to recreate what they imagine was Indian culture because their gr gr gr grandma was Cherokee... .

 As I see it   without the  tribes that are strong enough to have been federally recognized , being a reference point in this ,  anti Indian groups such as One Nation and these so called tribes that declare "everybody with a drop of Indian blood is an Indian " ,  are heading towards exactly the same goal , assimilation and the extinguishment of tribal Nations as distinct cultures, communities and political entities.   

But that is just my own point of view...
 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 09:39:22 pm by Moma_porcupine »  "

  Unega,nothing that you say,upset me,lol, [Childish Insult],I and most others could care less what you think of PODIAS, or our Peoples,in truth you are [Childish insult] You would not KNOW a "true" Cultural Lesson,if it bite you. I speak when and where I see need,I am not anyone "pet indian",and my connection you may guess about to times end,your choice,my knowledge.
 granny

[Childish insults and a spam post removed. Any others will be too. Kindly grow up.]

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi wredgranny

I saw this posted over on your multiplicity website

http://wredgranny814.multiply.com/journal/item/57/NAU_has_been_hacked_

Friday May 16, 2008 - 10:56pm (EDT) Permanent Link | 0 Comments
Entry for May 16, 2008

NAU has been hacked!
Current mood:  angry
I waited two days before posting this,trying HARD to contact NAU,Tsisqua,or Matty Yellowboy,for permission. But my concern for these wonderful friends/kin,who work SO hard for the rights of our People out weigh my caution. As soon as we spoke out at NAFPS against the "personal" attacks on Native Peoples there,we were SILENCED,bann from defending SELF,or others from the abuses to our Peoples. THIS,is going TOO FAR,this is PROOF in my mind,they (NAFPS) have much to hide,more to answer for.PLEASE,reach out,go and read the abuses your self,SEE and hear,Al Carroll is writing a "book" speaking for ALL our Nations,(is that not what NAFPS is calling "fraud" in others)going to Europe,making monies,and giving nothing back to our Peoples but arrogant abuse,he is after all the "EducatedIndian" RIGHT? My question is he "INDIAN" AT ALL,AND IF so,is he the ONLY Educated Indian,as his name and his actions seem to say!
A QUOTE from Al Carroll & Co. to Tsisqua
"Shut the fuck up you dumb bitch. Stop posting about Al, we now have all your personal details. If you post again, we will come to your house, take your children, and kill them. You know nothing about Al. GOT IT? GOOD."

..TR> ..TABLE>

granny
That is not necessary Granny, we have no question about who you are, and we are walking beside you here(I offered my family names). Tsissy was taken into hospital last night, I fear the stress and worry of the threats (We received 9 in total) was to much for her, two of the threats listed the little ones school where they attend and told her in no uncertain terms that if she does not shut up, they will take the children from the school and kill them. We have passed this information on to the police. My suggestion (And I would like to hear what you think on this matter) is to hit every ndn forum, blog etc that is on the net, post the truth of Al Carroll, we have contacted AIM once more, NARF, the Mescalero (Who have confirmed to us on the telephone Al Carroll is NOT known to them, but they state he is known to be a fraud and a abuser) we are also looking at a way to shut down his site of hate. We have sent information to the Feds, FBI etc regarding the death threats, kidnap threats etc also. I am gthering a list of as many forums as I can find as we speak. Since we find HUGE disrespect in the way you are being treated here, we hope you know we are with you 100%, and will do all we can to put this matter straight not only for you, but for our people. Too long this 'man' has abused our people.

Did you post this ? Where on earth or cyberspace did this story come from?

I can't imagine anyone here would say anything like this- has something got mixed up some how or what?

Stories like that can't help the credibility of the information provided here .

But if you believed something like that I can see where you would feel pretty upset .

[frederica]

Tsissy was hacked by someone else. She can tell you who it was. Had nothing to do with NAFPS.

[educatedindian]

Hello "Granny". Thanks for proving for everyone that much of what you said was false. Obviously you are not and never were banned in here.

So will you have the decency to apologize for your lies and remove them from other sites? Will you now try to grow up, and quit attacking NDN people on an NDN group, and instead foolishly backing whites with a little NDN ancestry who are doing wrong?