WRedGranny Spreading Lies on Other Websites

[Moma_porcupine]

Mooniesixkiller ...You know, I am trying really hard not to attack Tsisqua . I haven't responded or defended myself from many personal accusations which are neither fair nor true, and I haven't posted everything I have found that makes me wonder what her agenda really is. I am sitting on my hands so to speak. I don't know what you are referring to when you say you feel I have attacked Tsisqua, but if you want to talk about it there is a thread "Discussions with Moma porcupine' where you could point out the behavior you find offensive and feel is "attacking Tsisqua" .

A link to this thread is here

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1739.0;all

I have noticed Tsisqua is often saying I said offensive things I never said at all , so if you  could you please quote exactly what I said, the name of the thread and reply numbers ,   and provide a link to the thread it was in ,and then explain how you are hearing this, it would really help me understand what you are saying.

I can be responsible for what i actually say , I can't be responsible for what people imagine i said.

[educatedindian]

I've just spent the better part of my day reading through all of this. And for the life of me I cannot understand what is happening and has happened to this forum. All of a sudden RavenCrow comes in here and all hell breaks loose between the members that should be UNITED, instead there is separation and slander and disharmony going on between so many good folks and I for one am tired of Tsissy always being "attacked" by only one person....Mama Porcupine. Whatever your beef is Mama frankly this crap is getting real old and it is NOT the reason I joined this forum. If I wanted the constant drama of the "he said...she said" BS I'd go back to yahoo 360. So as much as it saddens me, I feel this forum has lost sight of it's best intentions and is no longer out to expose the ones that are doing wrong, but instead it's the stress and disharmony amongst it's own that is disheartening. Today will be my last day on this forum, I can no longer sit here and watch and read what's happening, I wish this Forum nothing but success but until Mama Porcupine outs herself for once instead of finding fault with those trying to do good, this Forum is a joke.

Sincerely,

Michele Sixkiller

It's pretty strange what you're saying. Because Sheila Williams, a blond woman claiming to be a Cherokee grandmother, spread libel about NAFPS, somehow it must be the fault of NAFPS or Moma P?

Because a few questionable PODIAs in the Blackwater "Band" came in about a month ago and try to discredit NAFPS to distract people from their own lack of ethics, somehow that is NAFPS' fault?

There hasn't been much dispute between NAFPS members. It's mostly been between a few late arrivals anxious to smear us to avoid anyone noticing they've done wrong, and the rest of us who haven't been fooled by that.

It's just a shame if you fall for the Blackwaters' (and "Granny's") divisive smear tactics. No one else has.

[educatedindian]

Again with all due respect....651 members here on this forum....do you know each and every single one personally? Face to face? And can vouch for them all? Or even vouch for all the readers of these threads....people who are not even members? Supporters of NAFPS?  Is NAFPS responsible for the opinions of their readers or members? No. Like I have already clearly stated....I do not know WHO made the threats...that is being dealt with by those who can find out....but I am NOT here stating NAFPS threatened my children! All I have done, is present the facts....take that as you may.

Tsissy

The last statement, yes. I already pointed out you were the one who confirmed that Sheila Williams' libel is completely and utterly false, that no such threat came to you.

I'm going to make it a habit to refer to Williams by her real name and not her online ID.

For the rest of that quote, I thought I was clear about a distinction between visitors to the NAFPS forum and NAFPS longtime activists and supporters.

Technically, Sheila Williams was a NAFPS member, though she never did anything except try to smear people and scream childish insults or lies. Others have come to the forum who no one would consider to be NAFPS members, for example exploiters like Scarlet McKinney.

[Tsisqua]

What sane person would think that hacking someones website and threatening to kill their kids would be less of a danger to their groups reputation than allowing wredgranny to complain that some NAFPS members have a bad attitude ?

Groups reputation??? Where have I stated that Im merely concerned about the reputation of NAU? I cant even believe you wrote that.  Somethings are FAR MORE important...like FAMILY...CHILDREN. Like I said, perhaps others dont take threats of this magnitude seriously, naming little children  and the school they go to...because they've hacked into my personal email account and got that information....making threats towards their safety...but I do...they are my children...and I dont expect you or anyone else to take it seriously. You are more concerned about the reputation of NAFPS...and seem to think Im more concerned about the reputation of NAU or indeed should be....this is the INTERNET for craps sakes...NAU is not JUST on the internet...and nothing NOTHING on the internet comes before the safety of my little ones and never will do. I couldnt give a rats behind about the reputation of NAU....my childrens safety and well being is my number 1 concern. Does that makes me a bad mother too? If someone had done the same to you MP...hacked your email....which of course you will say is highly unlikely of course...but try putting yourself in someone elses shoes just for a second...lets switch this up some...took your private emails from and to family...and made threats in the name of NAU or using MY name...you would be the first person here making sure everyone and their dog knew about it...and you know you would and you'd have no quarms about saying who they claim they are associated with. But hey...lets forget that I have also stated "I do not know WHO made the threats"...all I have done is presented the truth. If this butthead wants it known they are using NAFPS as a reason to threaten me...you want me to hide it? Lie about it? Cover it up? I have told nothing but the truth....and I wont cover up ANYTHING to suit yours or anyone elses personal opinion.

If NAU was hacked the first time

Why say if? Other people have also stated it was....so whats the if for? Again...your personal opinion.

and it is sincerely believed someone like L or JM had anything to do with this, when NAU knew it had been hacked the second time , why would anyone assume that the hackers making these threats were truely a part of NAFPS as they claimed? A couple of the people you claim you know were involved the first time have a long and easily proven track record of lying or twisting things in order to discredit NAFPS. Knowing this , why would anyone just take the hackers word for it ?

Have I taken the hackers word for it? NO. Have I said "I know it was someone here without a shadow of a doubt"? NO. Again I'll repeat for the reading imparied...have I said anywhere on this thread or anyplace else that I KNOW IT WAS A MEMBER OF NAFPS?? No I have not. I have clearly stated..."it could be anyone". Please read through the WHOLE thread. I have stated it 'could' be a member...how are YOU to know otherwize....it 'could' be a reader....how are YOU to know otherwize? It 'could' be anyone...how are YOU to know otherwize? How am I to know? You ask questions of me...asking me to look at it in a different way...do you not think I have looked at EVERY possible angle? You think Im some dumb idiot sitting behind a pc screen killing time because Ive nothing better to do with my day? And incidently....this thread is apparently regarding Granny, not me. I did not post a private email on the net...I tried to have it removed...I did not write the email...and the person who DID write the email is no longer anything to do with NAU....all Ive done here is present the facts...and still...aint never gonna be enough for some. Did you merely post Grannys posting as another means to attack me? Who knows. Apparently Granny is not permitted to be here to answer any questions regarding this...as she's banned...but hey...its okay...Tsissy's here eh. Lets question Tsissy about what other people do...If you are entitled to your personal opinion...so am I...so is everyone on this board.... Last time I looked...we were entitled to 'freedom of speech'...afterall...YOU clearly are...as should every other member on this board be.

Even if NAFPS members weren't happy with what wredgranny was saying, and they believed it was within Tsisqua's power to "shut her up ", wouldn't asking nicely have a lot better chance of a cooperative response?

All this is based on your personal opinion MP...everything you've written. Ive given an account of what happened...and my personal opinion was "I do not know WHO did it"....if you have no factual evidence about who hacked our email account, who hacked our site, who sent the threats....etc...why do you persist in harping on? You yourself always jump in on anything I post asking for "evidence and proof"...where's yours? DO YOU know who did it? I didn't realize this board was called "The personal opinions of MP"...or was here to "All listen to MP's opinions on NDN affairs".

And heck, if a NAFPS memeber was wanting to "shut granny up " , and they knew how to hack a website or knew how to hire someone to do this , it would make better sense to directly target the websites where wredgranny is spreading these distorted stories.

Again...your own personal opinion...you 'clearly' know the ins and outs of everyones mind and how everything should or should not be done....and indeed how everyone SHOULD be thinking. Hey...why dont you run for president....spokesperson on NDN affairs since you know so much....our people clearly NEED your insight on how they should be thinking and acting.

Tsisqua , considering this, why do you continue to suggest this hacker was likely to have been a member of NAFPS?

Im not suggesting anything...Im telling it like it is...you want me to back down and change the facts here? To suit your personal opinion? Because you dont like what Im saying? Aint never gonna happen. You think you can bully me into submission? Bring it.

Even though you say NAFPS isn't really responsible for what individual memebers do , you must know that people like Martin and Lekay will use a slightly twisted version of this story to discredit NAFPS just the same as they used a slightly twisted version of the completely false melodrama Robin created to discredit NAFPS.

Oh im fully aware...Im not a fool....but some people here seem to think if anyone speaks up about NAFPS....they MUST be friends of Lekay....have you ever done a search on google? There's a hell of alot more people out there on the net with something to say other than Lekay...people who admit they are also members here and regular readers...but hey...Im sure you can do a seach and find this for yourself eh...but YOU KNOW that it couldnt POSSIBLY be a reader here who made the threats and hacked our email dont you....YOU KNOW it could NEVER be a member here eh? You know them all personally I presume....visit them in their homes...drink coffee with them....and can personally vouch for every single one...yup. Again...I will repeat...I do NOT know WHO it was....is that even remotely clear yet?

Continuing to tell this story as if a NAFPS memeber is likely to be responsible, seems especially unfair

Its a "Story" when you dont like whats being said...again...this whole post is based on your personal opinion...no facts...no evidence...you ask this of all others...but we all must sit back and hear your personal opinion....and change ours to suit your own. Sorry MP, nothing doing.

Maybe some NAU member was jelous of the time you spend over here, or feels some of the values of NAFPS members conflicts with the direction they want to see NAU go ... and they wanted to creat divisions ... Or maybe someone just likes drama ... and being in the middle of it .... There is many many possibilities that are just as likely as the guess that it was an irrational crazed NAFPS member not liking what your friend wredgranny was saying.

Again...I will repeat...I have not stated that the person making the threats WAS A MEMBER OF NAFPS...I have merely told the truth...repeated the events....I have clearly stated I dont know WHO it was...but I will not hide the fact that the threats were made and how they were made. Here's an interesting thought and JUST a thought of course...but 'maybe' it was some prominent attacker on this board who found it necessary to once again find another means of jumping on top of my head in public? WHO KNOWS. But I can assure you...once the authorities dealing with this know who it was....so will everyone else....infact I will personally forward you the information since you are so concerned about this....but not for the safety of little children...but the reputation of NAFPS.

If you and your friends actually do want to support the goals we are working towards here, I hope you will reconsider where you are directing the focus of your accusations. I'm not saying anyone should ever stop themselves from speaking the truth, I'm just suggesting we all need to be careful to consider what this truth is,or may be , and to make sure our words accurately represent this , before speaking and accusing people of things

Threats made to my children are NOTHING to do with the goals here....and I REFUSE to lie about it to suit your personal opinion. Sorry MP...no dice. Im not here to make NAFPS look bad...or anyone else for that matter...but I wont lie...I wont cover up anything...and I have not said NAFPS threatened my children....other peoples personal opinions are their own.

With Respect,

Tsissy

Added:

Quote from EducatedIndian

I already pointed out you were the one who confirmed that Sheila Williams' libel is completely and utterly false, that no such threat came to you.

Where did I? No disrespect intended, but I clearly recall you contacting me about this post as I had no idea it even existed...and once I found out about it I did all I could to have it removed...and I know I did not tell you these threats were never made, because that would be an outright lie. I remember telling you there was no proof that the threats had come from NAFPS...and that I did not know WHO the threats had come from...therefore the personal email that was posted needed to be removed as there WAS no actual proof. ...and the NAU staff member who sent the email had been dealt with. I did not say the threats were not made.

[Moma_porcupine]

Tsisqua

Groups reputation??? Where have I stated that Im merely concerned about the reputation of NAU? I cant even believe you wrote that.  Somethings are FAR MORE important...like FAMILY...CHILDREN

Tsisqua ... you have misunderstood what I am saying once again .  Why would a NAFPS member hack your website and say the following if it wasn't concern for the reputation of NAFPS? What other motive would there be ... ?

From what Sheila Williams posted , quoting some of the threats NAU recieved ;
"Shut the fuck up you dumb bitch. Stop posting about Al, we now have all your personal details. If you post again, we will come to your house, take your children, and kill them. You know nothing about Al. GOT IT? GOOD."

Tsisqua
"many of the threats we received were aimed  towards either 'me shutting Granny up on NAPFS'....or 'NAU keeping out of it'..

So all I am saying is a NAFPS member who would hack your website and threaten your kids in order to defend NAFPS reputation ( their alleged motive ) would be utterly insane - and if all we are looking for is a crazy person with illogical reasons for doing what they are doing ,there is no reason any member of NAFPS should be higher on the list of suspects than memebrs of NAU or any other group that doesn't like people opposing exploiters and explosing frauds.

Nobody said they didn't take threats made concerning your kids seriously. 

I feel you are distorting a lot of the rest of what you are saying i said .

I am having a problem with this because i don't like being blamed for stuff i never said, but you do this so often, if i go over everything you wite and refute every time you misrepresent something i said, any issue we were trying to discuss would have the attention diverted from the actual issue to the back and forth interpersonal dispute that would be sure to follow...

This feels really unfair and it does make me feel hostile towards you.  I'm not sure what to do except hope people will read through the entire interaction and compare what I actually say, to what you say I said, to make sure i am not being misquoted and having my words twisted.

Your example of if I got threats in your name is interesting because if i got threatening emails from Al or someone else i have always considered an ally in our struggle to educate people about frauds and exploitation , I  would not believe it was even remotely likely that Al or some other previously reasonable person was suddenly threatening my kids. Especially not if I had previously seen accounts hacked . 

[frederica]

Shiela Williams aka RedGranny is not ban as far as I know. She chooses  to do what she is doing. I get the picture she feels she can say what she wants, but doesn't want others to reply.  If you disagree with her it becomes a situtation. And she rather play the victim. I think MP is being used as a flash point. I think personalities come into play and people just feed off of this. We well know there are alliances against NAFPS, old and new that have come into play. Asking questions is not illegal. Posting false information with intent and harrassment comes close to civil rights violations.  But if that is what people decide to do it is on them. They have to deal with the consenquences. And lack of knowledge of the law is no excuse. Shiela Williams was told by Al she need to take the stuff down and apologize.  That's not a ban.  That's for her to do, not us.  I don't see her as having exactly clean hands in this situtation. There should be the focus.

[educatedindian]

Quote from EducatedIndian

I already pointed out you were the one who confirmed that Sheila Williams' libel is completely and utterly false, that no such threat came to you.

Where did I? No disrespect intended, but I clearly recall you contacting me about this post as I had no idea it even existed...and once I found out about it I did all I could to have it removed...and I know I did not tell you these threats were never made, because that would be an outright lie. I remember telling you there was no proof that the threats had come from NAFPS...

Exactly. That last part of the sentence after what you put in bold was what I meant to say. That sentence in my post should have ended with "no such threat came to you from anyone at NAFPS." My mistake.

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

What I was referring to, in my previous post, is that when an Aboriginal group becomes effective, it attracts the attention of those who feel threatened and these often will attempt to disrupt, control or destroy said group.  I have seen, especially in the early 70's, the effects of infiltration and disruption among Aboriginal groups who have the potential of threatening the status quo.

NAFPS may be one such situation!  Maybe we should all be aware of this!

Ric

[earthw7]

OK OK I am going to say something that might make people upset.

I am sorry but why are we even talk about another website?
I have seen so much about this website NAU but never visited it
nor do I want to.
It reminds me of gossip and more gossip.
It a he and she said
which make no sense.
We need to get back to forcusing on the issues.
I am sorry Tsisqua but you need to keep your site and issues off this site

[Tsisqua]

Well I'd do that if people would stop bringing it up! I didn't bring NAU up on this thread...read the thread....that was someone else wasnt it? But I have the right to speak up too...or is there NO freedom of speech here?...Check every thread Ive posted on pretty much...Im not the one bringing up NAU....and hey...im not upset at all Earth...you are entitled to your opinion...infact Im glad you pointed this out. Maybe now people will see what the deal is...and read the threads...MP seems to have an issue with me and NAU...which is why she brings it up on almost every thread I post on. But wait...I'll be wrong about that too....all folks gotta do is use their eyes.

With respect,

Tsissy

[frederica]

Well the bickering needs to stop, I can see how it's being used. And Ric is correct, it's one of the oldest ploys used.   It's not about anyone except Shiela Williams. Al asked her to do what she needed to do. Now it's up to her.

[bls926]

No way of knowing now if Williams deleted the lies or not. She's made her blogs private. You need to be a friend to see them, so I guess that leaves me out.

[educatedindian]

A blog that few people see except her online friends isn't too important. She's spread her libel far and wide on at least half a dozen sites. What she was asked to do was remove the lies from those places and have the decency to apologize.

No sign of that, or of any of the Blackwaters having the sense to at least distance themselves from her lunacy.

[gogv]

I was sent an e-mail to this topic to read. First and foremost, let me apologize for any misunderstandings of the past. When I first came to this site it was in search of help regarding a fake. I was attacked and all my words fell on deaf ears. I have seen though that people are starting to question all I was in the first place.

Now, I am a reachable person and I have not lied to anyone. If you want my address just asks in e-mail and I will give it. I am who I am and I really don't need anyone to validate that for me. Now since I am known it would be nice to have your real name and address Tsisqua. Do you hide this because you know you are a liar and with these slanderous words of yours you run a high chance of a serious law suit?

Let me make this clear, I never hacked into your computer. I ask you to report this to the Police and maybe even the FBI since the lives of your Children and you were threatened. Since 911 there is zero tolerance for this and it is a terrorist threat. So, if you have proof that I did this, I dare you to press charges against me. In fact, I want you to if you know it is me. When you do, don’t get too comfortable because I will slam you into the wall with law suits.

Now I also did not conspire to hack you and I doubt very much any of them did either. LeKay last I spoke to him said he has no desire to be bothered with you and all that has happened. He too is reachable because he posted his real name and phone number in one site I went to. So I called and he called me back and we spoke. Not about you or anyone, we spoke about ourselves to each other. He also told me to stay away from you and I did. This is the first time I have been back since the last time I was here and attacked.

The long break from all the drama did me good. It gave me time to clear my mind and think things through. Now, another thing that needs to be cleared up, I was never the owner of RNS. Bobby and Chelle were and I on my own discovered the lies in them too and oops, the site is gone. Bye-Bye.

Chelle is the one who reported you to freewebs and not me. So if you knew the truth and if Freewebs gave you the name of the person who reported you, you would already know it was not me. Now I made a freeweb account to see if they do tell you who made claims and do you know they don’t? Not even to a paying user do they give that. But I will be kind and let you know it was Chelle. The reason why it was frozen was you posted my IP and they must have told you to take it off. You did not so Chelle wrote again and they saw and they froze you.  That had nothing to do with hacking either.

Furthermore, I am not friends with Bear Warrior. I know he was a fake Chief in California and I was one of the people who called the DA’s Office and the Tribal Lawyers reporting that site. I also exposed them in RNS and shortly after that, their site was gone. I also called the Arizona Tribal Office and reported that Standing stupid bear and I contacted the IRS about all that money they were getting from people. Oops, that site seems to be gone too. Now, I am not going to hate people just because and my enemies I will keep close enough to watch from a safe distance.

Tsisqua, you are nothing but a lying drama queen who uses peoples passion to your own evil gains. You are a fake and that is why you hide. You claimed to be in a Hospital in Quebec Canada in ICU with a Heart Attack. I called all the Hospitals in that area and the ICU and do you know there was no such patient? Again, another lie upon another lie. You covered for your Beaderman fake Tonto of Ohio and I have to wonder why.

If anyone wants to know what is about me, just ask in an e-mail. I am no ones enemy here. Well except for Tsisqua. I am sorry to anyone else who I might have hurt in some way. I also am not the one who attacked Al here or anywhere else. I know who it was but she is gone now and I don’t think we will hear from her anymore.

Wado all for your time.

[educatedindian]

Presumably this is Sheila Williams? If so, your apology is welcome, though deleting all of the slander you passed along on many websites would be even more welcome.

Why you have anything to do with a racist and promoter of Nuage exploiters like Lekay is a mystery. He is still promoting one fraud after another, and he's posted quite a bit of slander on his website about us, something for which he will faced legal action before and could again.

Your dispute with Tsisqua is complicated, since she has faced quite a bit of questioning in here, and also has not been around for awhile so can't answer you. I'd suggest the two of you take that to private emails rather than drag it out further in here. And any legal matters are of course a matter for law enforcement.