NO LONGER A MATTER OF CONCERN: Dennis "Rocky' King

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

EN, I have no authority to tell any person anywhere what they can and cannot do.
No one does, except for law enforcers.

But I have my beliefs, and I found here some like minded people who also believe
it is wrong to sell Spirit and that it is wrong to mix and match belief systems. I'm
lucky I found this forum, as it's getting harder to find people who have not justified
the conversion of the spiritual to the material.

Anyone can judge me any way they want.  Doesn't change my beliefs.

I don't believe in making any person feel they have to pay or barter for
spiritual things, and most certainly not for prayer or for having someone
pray for them or do ceremony for them.

Whether a person wishes to give something back without any kind of insinuation at all
from the other, that's entirely up to them.  But should never be asked for or made
part of it.

That's what I believe, and from reading the forum I have seen others here
believe that too.  It's nice to find people who think that.  I'm lucky to have
found this place, and I will stand with them if they'll have me.

[educatednative]

Anyone can judge me any way they want.  Doesn't change my beliefs.


Rocky says "same here", so please, no more je accuse'

[Smart Mule]

Hi EN and a belated welcome to the forum.

I listened to part of the radio show on Native America Calling which was posted by Al.  One of the things that Dennis said really bothers me.  He said, "Love is the most powerful thing.  Love, that's what heals everything.  The energy keeps things together, it's like glue.  Love will over-come everything.".  It makes me incredibly sad that somebody can charge money for love.  The first thing it made me think of was prostitution.  I don't like the idea of something sacred being prostituted.

I personally have a problem with individuals charging for healing.  I have a problem with bastardizing, exploiting and selling of culture.  I have two children and a grandchild, I would like to see my traditions intact for my great grandchildren and for those who come after them.  It upsets me and disturbs me that healing, in a traditional manner, is being turned into a commodity.  I know healers from my community, they remain in my community, and there is no charge for healing people.  Most of the healers I know have 'day jobs' that pay their bills.  Those that don't are supported by the community in a traditional way.  We make sure they have wood, food, winter coats, etc. The support is maintained in a traditional manner.  If somebody from outside the community hapoens to come to them for healing they are never turned away and no compensation is expected.  When indigenous healing is brought to the dominant culture and a price tag is attached, it does nothing to teach the dominant culture about how things are conducted in our world, it is simply catering to something that has far too much power, the almighty dollar. 

racist if you ask me...guess you have never been to a pow-wow where money is spent on everything from Fry Bread to beads to sweet grass to moccasins all have a function that natives live off of ...evidentially the entire tourist trade in all things indigenous to this land...so exactly how many are to blame and what are the boundaries you will dictate for everyone to follow?  Please tell us so we can follow you Supreme Indians who think whites who like Indians and pay money to them are the devil huh... but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters

What are the boundaries you would dictate?  Is everything for sale?  Are you comfortable with there being no line in the sand as to what is appropriate?  Are you comfortable with things being adulterated to the point that the original integrity of what is sacred is lost?

You mention that everyone here uses terms such as white boy.  In reading through the thread there was one person who referred to Dennis as a white boy and that statement was corrected by another poster.  If Dennis is using traditional healing as well as new age healing then what is the proper term that should be applied?  While you think it is unfair that some individuals are not comfortable in the manner in which your friend operates, not every member of this forum has chimed in.  How is it fair that you vilify every member of the forum?  Last I checked, two wrongs don’t make a right.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Anyone can judge me any way they want.  Doesn't change my beliefs.


Rocky says "same here", so please, no more je accuse'

So, Rocky believes it's OK to sell Spirit and to mix the traditional ways with
new age ways thus diluting the ways that have been handed down and
that people have fought and died for so as to stop the genocide of the
of Native peoples and their way of life.

So it is not surprising that he is being considered as an exploiter of Native traditions
and is in the research needed section of this forum.

[Smart Mule]

but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters

Just so that I understand and don't go off into an unnecessary tangent, are you suggesting assimilation?

[Smart Mule]

To be fair I listened to the entire Native America Calling show.  The majority of ndn people who called in were more comfortable with fair compensation however they were not so comfortable with the exploitation and appropriation that comes out of pay to pray services.  Dennis handled the criticism with grace and seemed to acknowledge and accept the fact that there were going to be members of the community that would criticize him.  He did not talk down to or about those who criticized nor did he try twist what he was doing into something else in order to save face.

This does not mean that I agree with what he is doing, though I do appreciate the manner in which he handled the topic.  He didn't villify anyone.

[educatednative]

sky: thank you for your good words, and objective interpretation of the NA Calling show

[Smart Mule]

You're welcome.  You didn't answer my questions 

[educatednative]

critter:  why are we still talking to you?  You just got done saying you have your beliefs and no one can change them.  Rocky says the same thing so: stalemate.  Nice alliteration on "selling Spirit"---once again your terminology is simplistic and loaded with bias.  Ditto for 'exploiting native culture'..

sky:  I did post something but it didn't post and i lost it...assimilation? um what year is this? 2011?  Natives are assimilated all around the country living the dual realities of urban and traditional ways.  Am i suggesting assimilation?  im suggesting tolerance and open-mindedness thank you

[educatednative]

sky:  another thing I said which got lost is this re: where is the line drawn?  Arvol Looking Horse says where.  Sedona, NM incident for one. Frauds and outright frauds, non-indians practicing ways without the knowledge or respect.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I'm stating why he is listed on this forum in research needed.

As his representative, your dismissive and "try to insult" people attitude
leaves little to be desired and reflects onto him.

[Smart Mule]

I did post something but it didn't post and i lost it...assimilation? um what year is this? 2011?  Natives are assimilated all around the country living the dual realities of urban and traditional ways.  Am i suggesting assimilation?  im suggesting tolerance and open-mindedness thank you

I understand that it is 2011 and that there needs to be a balance between traditional ways and the necessities dictated by surviving in modern culture.

Tolerance and open-mindedness go both ways and I'll be the first to admit that I am not the poster child for either.  There are people who will agree with the manner in which Dennis conducts himself and there will be those of us who disagree.  There's bound to be frustration and often times anger on both sides.  If we keep catering to the excuse of modernization, eventually the traditional is going to be lost unless it is protected and it's sacredness maintained.

[Smart Mule]

sky:  another thing I said which got lost is this re: where is the line drawn?  Arvol Looking Horse says where.  Sedona, NM incident for one. Frauds and outright frauds, non-indians practicing ways without the knowledge or respect.

Thank you.  I agree with you 100% on that point!

[educatednative]

critter:  dimissive? yah maybe but why not since you are the one who is je accuse' of Rocky.  Also Rocky is not even here when I say this and has nothing to do with my arguments.

 Plus its a stalemate so what else do you have to say except continue to utilize the terminology of Rocky exploiting native traditions, when he is the native american indian, not you, and they are his traditions, not yours?  Unbelievable critter!  you should be ashamed of yourself for being j accuse' on something you know nothing about nor have any real stake in.  Rocky has suffered for his life and craft and critter, your accusations, though maybe well intentioned, are quite misplaced here. 

sky:  thank you

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Well, I'm not playing any games, so not sure what stalemate is supposed to mean.

As for me, I'm a member on a forum that ousts exploiters. If the forum does not
want me to speak up and ask about these things then they should probably delete
my account here.

As a member, I am supporter of keeping Native traditions safe and sacred. It would
be pointless to me, to support something and then, not support it.

I have nothing to be ashamed of. If I do, I'm positively certain the members here
would tell me so, and not someone who as I've seen countless other times come
in and state someone, native or not, is taking traditional ceremonies and mixing
in new age beliefs and asking for donations or fees.

Since ousting and trying to stop this type of activity is what this forum is about,
then my intentions are not misplaced here.