thin blood

[Rattlebone]

Yeh I've got a pretty strict, tight list compared to just having met BQ requirements, that's partly based on my experience with the (now) Quebec Nation (which used to just be people living on a territory known as the Province of Quebec inclusive of recent immigrants). Not "just" ancestry, but also shared culture, history, and language; I believe those things are of equal importance to what determines what a people are.

 Same here.


 Since contact has occurred the times since then are not the same as what our ancestors lived through.

 When I look around I see being Indian as something pretty fluid now days. I know full bloods that are christian and think if your traditional that you are going to hell. I know a man who's blood quantum is a whopping 1/32 bq  and he is a well loved member of the community and participates in his culture in a good way, and is no nuage type person.

 The spectrum on how things are in this modern world is large and that is why I said being NDN is often a fluid thing.

Some hold on to the notion that being NDN must be this or that, and that you should be of this BQ and look this way. Often times with this sort of mindset that full blood who hates native ways will still be given more love in the community then that person who is far less, but actually living the culture and doing so in a good way. It is in the end a very bad paradox created by NONS.

So with me in order that I don't make blanket statements about who is NDN or not  I came up with a way in which I view people.

To me somebody must be

1.)Culturally Indian

2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood (regardless of BQ since I don't go around asking how much somebody is)

3.)Politically Indian.

4.)Seen as NDN by the community

 Now with the exception of somebody who is over half who will be NDN regardless, somebody must be a combo of all 4 things in my eyes to be seen as NDN and not just 1 or 2. Even in my eyes there are people that maybe deserve the title of PODIA or Thinblood, but those are people whom I don't consider NDN at all. I would use such words on them, and not somebody who is part of, or is trying to learn their culture in a good way.

[LittleOldMan]

When I aid the Tribe with my labor, my money , or my art for them to sell.  When I give good counsel to those younger.  when I look after the well being of those older than myself.  When I defend them from criticism.  When I receive their acceptance as a friend.  They ask not what my BQ is.  They look and judge character.  When I am introduced to others as a good friend of the Tribe I am reminded of what an old Elder said to me once.  You could get a card but it would give you nothing that you don't already have.  I have their friendship and acceptance as one of their own.  I am honored and subdued by it.  "LittleOldMan"

[Rattlebone]

When I aid the Tribe with my labor, my money , or my art for them to sell.  When I give good counsel to those younger.  when I look after the well being of those older than myself.  When I defend them from criticism.  When I receive their acceptance as a friend.  They ask not what my BQ is.  They look and judge character.  When I am introduced to others as a good friend of the Tribe I am reminded of what an old Elder said to me once.  You could get a card but it would give you nothing that you don't already have.  I have their friendship and acceptance as one of their own.  I am honored and subdued by it.  "LittleOldMan"

 As how it was and how it should be always.

[Raven2]

ta-ho, Rattlebone, you speak from the mind and heart, in a good way. wela'lin for those words. also i thank you LittleOldMan, and nighthawk, for your words also, they come from the same places.

i must say that these thoughts, ideas, and feelings, are what we need to continue on as who we are. we cannot forget where we come from, else we just become cogs in the machine also, and not the human beings/L'nu/Anishnaabe/etc. we are. the mainstream society is very ill, and people react to it in various ways.

some almost see it, so they go looking for something, they don't know what; they see us, with our rich cultures - those of us that still have it, and weren't destroyed by the genocidal policies of foreign governments - and think stealing from us is the answer. it isn't.

they're looking for something they have lost from their minds a long time ago. i think it is possible for them to find their way back, but their road is also going to be hard. most see that it is, or are just greedy, and take shortcuts.

you cannot take shortcuts. it will not work. some do see it, almost, but take that shortcut way, and fall off, possibly very damaged as a result. that is not the answer either.

some others also see it, and start to find their way back to wherever it is they come from, and go that way. those are very few, and you never hear about them, because they know.

i'm starting to see this within our communities too, more so since i live in an urban area. but it isn't totally gone, most can still go back home and find their way back.

that sick society has all these little bells, lights, big images on billboards, "buy this, you'll be happy!" type messages, but are only empty words, with no love, or truth in them. we can't fall for those things. "you don't know where you're going unless you know where you come from" is very true, and even more so now. we're seeing all kinds of things happen now, and we need to remember and be reminded of these things again.

forgetting who you are is like a little bit of death inside. remembering, being reminded, is like a gentle rain on your head after a hot day, it brings you back to life.

[Kevin]

If I were an Indian living on my land or recently moved from my land, I wouldn't be spending any time trying to convince others and justifying how Indian I really am. The world really isn't just one big village, there ain't no pot pourri of cultural identities to pick from at will and if you're Indian and off your land, in my opinion, you're pretty much in a no-mans land - rough going. My name is Dances With Badgers and I am a traditional full blood White man and I approve this message.

[Rattlebone]

If I were an Indian living on my land or recently moved from my land, I wouldn't be spending any time trying to convince others and justifying how Indian I really am. The world really isn't just one big village, there ain't no pot pourri of cultural identities to pick from at will and if you're Indian and off your land, in my opinion, you're pretty much in a no-mans land - rough going. My name is Dances With Badgers and I am a traditional full blood White man and I approve this message.

Then why would you spend so much time trying to dictate who is and who is not NDN?

 If you know who you  are then that is a good thing. Even better if you know who you are then you should be strong enough to not worry about who claims to be what, especially if they are doing no harm and not engaging in nuage crap.

 To me your hostility shows that you may be dealing with other issues other then what this one is really about, and from their you are on the attack on some that may be doing no wrong whatsoever, and may in actuality have legitimate claims to who they claim to be. Those same people may in fact be doing the things you insist one should be doing, or have done to be an NDN in your eyes. Though I don't think anyone needs to have the approval or disapproval from a hateful person to claim the right to be who they are. In reality it is the community who decides if you are NDN or not.

[earthw7]

I guess for me I have a problem with so much of the white culture coming into our reservations.

I find that people who are worried about their blood 
defend their blood,  make excuse for the reason why they are less blood
are the ones with issues.

A person who is reconized by their people no matter the blood is
confident in who they are. they don't have to make excuses they
just know.

No matter what blood you claim you need to
spearate the american belief from the native beliefs.

I meet people and can tell by their action and how they talk that
they are not native no matter how much or how little the blood.

I would like to see native people stand up for themselves,
marry native people, being proud of being native, stay in their homelands.

I will stand by my beliefs is your parent are not enrolled
in the tribal nation then you are not native.

I don't care if it is  federally reconized,
state reconized, tribal lands.
The tribal people in a area Do they recogize you!

I fit in all the follow

1.)Culturally Indian
I among my people and live my culture

2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood  that me! I am 4/4

3.)Politically Indian.
I live on my reservation and work for the tribe
 
4.)Seen as NDN by the community
yup because everyone know me and my family
plus related to alot of people

[Rattlebone]

I guess for me I have a problem with so much of the white culture coming into our reservations.

I find that people who are worried about their blood 
defend their blood,  make excuse for the reason why they are less blood
are the ones with issues.

A person who is reconized by their people no matter the blood is
confident in who they are. they don't have to make excuses they
just know.

No matter what blood you claim you need to
spearate the american belief from the native beliefs.

I meet people and can tell by their action and how they talk that
they are not native no matter how much or how little the blood.

I would like to see native people stand up for themselves,
marry native people, being proud of being native, stay in their homelands.

I will stand by my beliefs is your parent are not enrolled
in the tribal nation then you are not native.

I don't care if it is  federally reconized,
state reconized, tribal lands.
The tribal people in a area Do they recogize you!

I fit in all the follow

1.)Culturally Indian
I among my people and live my culture

2.)Socially Indian
Indian by blood  that me! I am 4/4

3.)Politically Indian.
I live on my reservation and work for the tribe
 
4.)Seen as NDN by the community
yup because everyone know me and my family
plus related to alot of people

 First and foremost I have to say that I know who you are, and that you do a lot for your people.

 So I will say that I do respect you and have admiration for based on what I know about you regardless if I know you in person or not.

 I also will say that I think that you and I, and even most of whom are arguing against the term thin blood actually agree with what most of what the other is saying. It is just we are expressing much of it  in a lot of different ways.

 The problems come when some feel that are being accused of not being NDN,  and when those on the other side think they are being called racists when they are in reality talking about nuager's, people with gggggg grandmother princess stories, and various other types of frauds, fakes, and pretendians. Heck I might as well add the words Fluff bunnies and twinkies to that list of fakes, but not sure if you are aware of those words lol.

 Personally I know who I am, have no excuses to make for who I am, or who my family is or is not. I am a mixed blood person, and I have made peace with that for a long time now.

 In fact I have used it to often times promote understanding between people who are Native and non Native. At times I think that is what all people who are mixed should do if they have family who are both NDN, and NON's. Well in any capacity I believe NDN people should contribute to their people because I feel that it is to be  colonized not to do so. The non Native world teaches everyone to be about themselves and only themselves. This of course is opposed to Native people and how is not about self, but about community and your people.

 Also with me though I agree with you that it is better that NDN's stay with their own and marry their own; I do see so many who do not, and am myself a product of people not doing so. That does not mean I support hippies, new age, and people with gggg grandmother stories. It is just that I try to find a way to hold people together in spite of all of that, and try to encourage them to find ways to retain or learn their culture in spite of that all.

 That is why I say that I do agree with you more then you realize, but I just have a different take on things, and a different way of expressing that.

 The only issue I would disagree with you on is enrollment as a means of absolute definition of who is NDN or not. I live in the on the lands of the Yokuts, Miwok, and Monache people. There are a lot of bands from these people who are non recognized by the federal government because they refused in the past to go to one rancheria or another. These are not people who are 1/64th and white looking. Most are well over half, with many being full blooded.  An elder friend of mine and a few people in his family are the very last living people from his band to speak his their language.

 Given the familiarity I have with issues like that, and the full spectrum of others; I can't view enrollment as a basis of who is NDN or not. It is not that I think it means nothing because I know it does, or at least for many. It is just that I see many pitfalls in using it as the absolute way of definition.

[Kevin]

My White blood is thin enough I may be able to find a Cherokee somewhere way back then and then I can assume the Indian identity. Some were Scotch and Norwegian and Irish and Dane and Cezch and some of these boat people crossed over a few hundred years ago. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, I should be looking for that hidden Mohawk connection 150 - 200 yrs ago or some other coastal bands. I may have to change my name from Dances With Badgers to Searches For Justification, it does have a solid ring to it.

[Moma_porcupine]

It seems the way thin blood people create problems both for themselves and others is they  assume / demand / expect / feel entitled to way too much, on the basis of very little, while managing to completely deny the vast majority of their ancestry and whatever debts / IOUs / and limits are attached to this.

It seems thin blooded people like to get together in groups and encourage each other in just identifying with this small part of their heritage , until they completely loose site of reality - such as that they are almost entirely non native -

While it may be wrong to deny these peoples small amount of indigenous heritage, it seems to me to be even more dishonest and even more wrong, to deny the much larger non indigenous part of their heritage - and the world view and community affiliations that come with this.

This topic has come up in other threads, such as recently in the thread on Ward Churchill starting reply # 19

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1632.0;all

People Of Distant Indian Ancestry
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1111.0

questionable ndn idenities & tribes
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=846.0

And there's another thread about the CNO specifically creating a task force to deal with these people organizing themselves into fake tribes...

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1011.0

[wolfhawaii]

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I have some experience in various Cherokee communities. It seems to be easy for folks who lost their tribal connection generations back to band together, start a "tribe" have "ceremonies" get new names, etc. I am always disappointed when they have no real contact with the federally recognized people that they claim to be from, and their version of culture is quite often at variance with real culture.  I don't really care for the term "thinblood" but as it relates to a mindset and demeanor i guess it works. I know a number of people who don't look like cigar store ndns who are very involved in traditional culture, myself included, so appearance alone should not be used to judge. My edutsi (clan uncle) told me that "you are Cherokee if other Cherokee acknowledge you as such "(despite the lack of a card); I have also heard the other side of the coin, regarding a very blonde woman who worked for CNO and was having a hard time learning the language "she must be an Indian, she has a card that says so" said with a smirk It is a harder path to reunite with aniyunwiya than starting your own tribe but it is a better thing to do.

[MatoSiWin]

So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?

 

I certainly hope that is not the case.

[bls926]

So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?

 

I certainly hope that is not the case.

Of course not; but it does mean you're going to have three times as many non-Native ancestors waiting to greet you as well.

[MatoSiWin]

As long as they welcome me, that's just fine   I live to make them proud... ALL of them. 

[bls926]

As long as they welcome me, that's just fine   I live to make them proud... ALL of them. 

Good answer. I find it strange when someone with a drop or two of Native blood, concentrates on that part of their ancestry and forgets about all the other drops that make up who they are. To me, this shows disrespect to all your ancestors.