thin blood

[Kevin]

I hope the originator of the term "thinbloods" has obtained a copyright. Searching out and latching onto old, vague and 'thinned' ancestors as a means of self identity is I suppose mostly in reaction to the rampant materialism and consumerism of Western societies. I wonder though if such identity 'questing' isn't clouding some of the ways and means of combating plastic shamans and nuage nonsense?

[earthw7]

good question, i worry about people who just found out they might have indian blood then because all holy
listening to the birds and anmals or what ever.
If you don't who your relative are and don't know yor nation then you are not indian

[Rattlebone]

 Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.

Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.

 The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.


  How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?

[nighthawk]

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[bls926]

 Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.

Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.

 The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.


  How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?

No kidding, to me it seems insistence on BQ almost guarantees termination (eventually), and continues the genocidal practices of the colonial powers that think they are.

Y'all are still missing the point.

BQ does play a role in whether you're Indian or not. Someone who is less than 1/8 and can pass for white has no idea what it is to live as Indian. They have never experienced the disrespect and discrimination that those who cannot pass have. On the other end of the scale, they've probably never had someone come up and ask to touch their hair; in other words, they haven't had to deal with Indian-worshippers either. Someone with low BQ won't have to worry as much about diabetes; probably doesn't have chizzi elbows or keloids; isn't lactose intolerant. These things definitely have an effect on your life. Our genetic makeup plays a big role in how we live in our environment. Yes, with a lower BQ you can still know your culture, but the way society views you, the way you deal with day-to-day living, may be different.

But it's not just BQ. If you're even 1/8, that means you're 7/8 something else. Your family has probably had no interaction with your people for three generations. If your great-grandmother left her Nation, married a white man and became assimilated, why should you think you are Indian today? If your parents and grandparents had nothing to do with their tribe, what gives you the right to claim an Indian identity? How can tradition and family ties skip two generations and still be authentic? You have Indian ancestry. You are a descendant. While three generations is not exactly distant, you are still a descendant. Can you reconnect with your Nation? That would all depend. If you still have family who remained, it would probably be easier. I think it would be ludicrous to walk into a Tribal office, provide proof that your great-grandmother was a member of the Nation, and expect them to welcome you with open arms. How can you even begin to think this would happen? And if your Nation does not consider you one of them, then you aren't. Y'all need to wake up and face the facts.

[Raven2]

that's culture, and ties in with identity. even if you were "FBI", and know nothing of yourself, it's the same thing. same things goes for mixed, what if they know where they come from, are accepted as such in their community, would you call them non-NDN too?

the facts aren't clear-cut. making judgements "just because" isn't productive, you fall in the colonialist game again. i'm quite aware decolonizing yourself is hard, but be aware of your actions, as i will be, and hopefully am, of mine. not trying to poop on what you said, since you, and the other folks here make good points, and bring up always interesting subjects.

[Rattlebone]

 Somebody who is 1/4, or 1/8 may know who their nation is, and may know who their relations are and still be called this.

Thin blood in it's root meaning does not necessarily mean to be lacking ties or knowledge to who you are from. It too me sounds like referring to a person having a BQ on the lower end of the scale.

 The concept of thinblood would be just as NON NDN as the concept of BQ since thin blood is indicative of BQ.


  How does one claim to be protecting traditional ways, while at the same time using colonial concepts that are in their root origin the very direct result of colonialism and assault on our peoples?

No kidding, to me it seems insistence on BQ almost guarantees termination (eventually), and continues the genocidal practices of the colonial powers that think they are.

Y'all are still missing the point.

BQ does play a role in whether you're Indian or not. Someone who is less than 1/8 and can pass for white has no idea what it is to live as Indian. They have never experienced the disrespect and discrimination that those who cannot pass have. On the other end of the scale, they've probably never had someone come up and ask to touch their hair; in other words, they haven't had to deal with Indian-worshippers either. Someone with low BQ won't have to worry as much about diabetes; probably doesn't have chizzi elbows or keloids; isn't lactose intolerant. These things definitely have an effect on your life. Our genetic makeup plays a big role in how we live in our environment. Yes, with a lower BQ you can still know your culture, but the way society views you, the way you deal with day-to-day living, may be different.

But it's not just BQ. If you're even 1/8, that means you're 7/8 something else. Your family has probably had no interaction with your people for three generations. If your great-grandmother left her Nation, married a white man and became assimilated, why should you think you are Indian today? If your parents and grandparents had nothing to do with their tribe, what gives you the right to claim an Indian identity? How can tradition and family ties skip two generations and still be authentic? You have Indian ancestry. You are a descendant. While three generations is not exactly distant, you are still a descendant. Can you reconnect with your Nation? That would all depend. If you still have family who remained, it would probably be easier. I think it would be ludicrous to walk into a Tribal office, provide proof that your great-grandmother was a member of the Nation, and expect them to welcome you with open arms. How can you even begin to think this would happen? And if your Nation does not consider you one of them, then you aren't. Y'all need to wake up and face the facts.

  So when somebody who is 1/4 dies their Native ancestors do not great them when they pass on to the other side?

 You are actually using the argument that somebody may or not have it better or worse then another person to justify things that are not traditional ways.

 As Native people we do things that honor and respect our ancestors, and yet you wish to call somebody who is 1/4 or 1/8 a descendant?

 That is in not too much different then when nuage people mix ways, and only take those things from our ways that they like thus discarding those which they do not.

 Sure I will agree that somebody is full blooded will have problems and things in their life that somebody 1/4 or 1/8 would not have. Yet to use such things as a tool make colonial concepts NDN ones is ludicrous when those colonial concepts are just as foul, and just as evil as nuage things ones.

[nighthawk]

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[Raven2]

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1835.msg12917#msg12917

(also replying to the thread, not just nighthawk)

exactly. members of nations shouldn't be chasing away their cousins, relatives, siblings, they should be telling the governments to shove off and tell them *we* decide who are members, not you. They Are A Foreign Government. stop acting like you're under their tutelage.

[Raven2]

that's culture, and ties in with identity. even if you were "FBI", and know nothing of yourself, it's the same thing. same things goes for mixed, what if they know where they come from, are accepted as such in their community, would you call them non-NDN too?

the facts aren't clear-cut. making judgements "just because" isn't productive, you fall in the colonialist game again. i'm quite aware decolonizing yourself is hard, but be aware of your actions, as i will be, and hopefully am, of mine. not trying to poop on what you said, since you, and the other folks here make good points, and bring up always interesting subjects.

i meant Full Blooded NDN there, not F**king Big NDN, nor Flat Broke NDN. heehee

[nighthawk]

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[Rattlebone]

 I would also like to comment about whoever said somebody 1/8 would be 7/8's something else.

 In reality that is not true since human DNA is not broken down into fractions in such a way.  As a matter of fact BQ has no scientific basis in the way in which it is used.

 When people intermarry some traits become dominate, and some become recessive.

 Now as I have said earlier will concede that somebody who is 1/8 will not have the problems or obstacles that somebody who is full blooded or close to it will have.

Still to condemn such a person based on something such as BQ is in fact not an NDN concept, and thus in essence not traditional.

 This is not to say I support people claiming to be NDN because they have some gggggggg grandmother who they say was a Cherokee princess.

 However seeing the rate that NDN's marry into NONs I see that the concept of BQ will do what the guns of the past could not do, and that is exterminate us.

 Educated Indian challenged me on the word PODIA a while back saying how he wanted me to explain how I felt it was comparable to something such as those genocidal acts of the past and not so past.

 I will say in regards to that word, the word thin blood, and the concept of BQ; tht they are just as those genocidal practices, but with a modern way of performing them.

 This is not unlike how modern Indian policy was just way to use the pen to replace the canon and rifle. The concept of BQ has been ingrained in our minds to create the whole " I am more NDN then you conflict." This keeps us fighting and divided by a concept that in it's conception was used in the first place to take away lands.

 Now days with Natives marrying whites at a rate of 70% over marrying other NDN's, how relocation programs took people away from their communities, and all other ills of colonization and how they have stripped entire nations of their ways; what you have is Federal Indian policy and NDN inn fighting over NON concepts such as BQ replacing the rifle.

 If we are to consider ourselves Nations then we should act like them. Pass down our ways to our children and relations regardless of BQ thus making sure they live on in spite of the great obstacles we face due to colonization. If we do not find ways around such things like this we shall soon be what NON NDN American wanted in the first place and that is extinct as a people.
 
 As a nation Nazi Germany instituted  racial policies as a way to hunt down Jews for extermination. The United States has since then perfected them. Now we continue the process by viewing our own relations in such a way.

 I don't know how that is an NDN thing even if somebody who is 1/8 does not have it as bad as somebody 4/4's?

 

[Kevin]

After a couple of generations of walking talking thinking acting believing white or mexican or chinese or black, it don't matter if granny had some Indian blood in her or not. I don't think cultural hitch hikers are much welcome on the ol' red road.

[Rattlebone]

After a couple of generations of walking talking thinking acting believing white or mexican or chinese or black, it don't matter if granny had some Indian blood in her or not. I don't think cultural hitch hikers are much welcome on the ol' red road.

 Most Mexicans are nearly full blood NDN's themselves so how could you make such a statement?

 Also do all person's with white skin think alike and do all NDN's think alike?

[nighthawk]

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