What makes an NDN an NDN?

[redhawk45]

Who says that I am the one who is going to re-organize them?  Who says I am claiming to be a messiah?  Don't put words I never said into my mouth, and don't say I'm freakin crazy, as you point blank said in the last sentence.

I have been listening to TWO people on here, Superdog and Nighthawk.  Why should I listen to someone who doesn't want to acknowledge non-recognized NDN's, calling them all non-native (pretty much calling every single one a wannabe)?  Why should I listen to someone who's head is up his own butt?  Why should I take advice from someone from Ireland, who has no right to say she knows more about the Indigenous people of this land than the NDN's do, and claims to be a priestess?  PLEASE, if you have a dang good explanation for WHY I should listen to these people, then speak up.  If not, keep silent.

The Alleghenny Lenape needs to be regrouped after what Samuel Kennedy did to them (and to us).  Shane Norris of Newark is Lenape, and with more talking to him probably will TAKE OVER after my mother dies.  I don't give a crap if you and every single one here wants to call the Alleghenny Lenape fake...but I guess you'd be calling the Lenape in Cambridge, OH, fake, who has actual history, and actually acknowledges there was an extra band of Lenape called the Raven, which was pretty much the Alleghenny Lenape.  Sure, Sammy was a fraud himself, but he did organize the tribe, and after he disappeared someone has to take a stand to regroup them to get them on their feet.  Or, is what I just read in earlier posts about supporting the native communites wrong?  They may not be MY BLOOD (or my mother's), but my mother is going to support them any way possible, and I support my mother.

As I said, give me a good reason why I should listen to those others who wants to put my family down, wants to put my mother's GOOD INTENTIONS down.  I have an attitude BECAUSE of that, and your wicked little comment doesn't help.

Here's a note to all...if you don't have something GOOD to say, to help me or my mother out, WITHOUT putting down my blood, family, and the Alleghenny Lenape whom we are trying to help, then keep quiet (or haven't you learned your lesson already?  Fire only fuels fire.).

Eric

Eric, if in fact there are still Alleghany Lenape around, why would they need an upstart lad like you to organize them? Wouldn't they do that on their own? Or are you their ndn messiah? I was going to advise you but others here have given you good advise and you don't listen too good....you are fortunate that they are trying to help you in spite of your attitude. Maybe you should explore some of your feelings with a professional listener.

[redhawk45]

Two things...one, I don't believe at all that I am from Africa...like the evolution thing.  That's not in my belief.

Two, every single person already knows about that thread, and if you have noticed, it's pretty much stopped.  I ask a few questions in here, and get fire.  Superdog may say that the east/west thing with the tribes is ficticious, but from most responses to this thread, I see it VERY clearly.

If there was advice given, it should have been given NICELY, not bashing what I know to be true, of my values and beliefs, and what I learned in the past.  If those answers were given without disrespect, as they WERE in the very beginning, there wouldn't be no arguing of views.  But, they were, with people doubting my mother and I's ancestry.  It's almost like saying that you don't have Irish, that you have none of that blood, but from China or Japan.  If you notice, I didn't say Africa, since you believe that humans came from apes.  But, I'm not going to argue with you, for it's your belief...just not mine.

Eric

*sigh* this is what I get for not reading every thread here. For those who want some background on Eric, see this thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1576.0

[educatedindian]

Macuski, if you weren't so self involved, you'd realize two very obvious things:

No one has insulted you or done any wrong to you in here. Just the opposite, people have been amazingly patient and helpful with lots of good advice.

This is in spite of you repeatedly lashing at others in here for "wrongs" and "insults" that largely don't exist outside your imagination. The most obvious was the long harangue you directed at earthw7 for no reason, over things she never said, which you quietly said no more about once you realized she was right, that you'd exploded at her for something nonexistent.

It's pretty obvious you're not really arguing with us. You're arguing (and sometimes getting angry at us) for things you imagine others have done to you. "Oh those darn enrolled Indians are out to get us unenrolled ones!"

In most Indian forums, people would either have ignored you once they realized you weren't about to listen anyway, or they would have gotten fed up and simply driven you out.

But we haven't, largely because we take into account your youth and even more so, your lack of experience around Indian people.

Before you explode, realize that you and your mother are both of distant ancestry to most Indians. You were not raised within Indian cultures.

(And please, spare us any more explosions about "not your fault" or "blame the govt". We already know this. Can you imagine someone who was 1/8 Black showing up at a Black activist forum to lecture the people there about slavery and segregation? These are old facts we already know very well.)

If you had been, no one would even need to explain basic Indian ideas of politeness and patience, which you keep violating left and right. Understand that if you try the same behavior you've shown in here on other Indian forums, or esp in real life, again, you'll either be ignored or shown the door. If you were this rude at some powwows, security would already have hauled you out the gate by your shirt collar.

We here at NAFPS are far more used to people with distant ancestry, so that's why we've up to now cut you so much slack. But if you can't learn to first of all only hold people responsible for things they actually say and not what you repeatedly imagine they say, most of us will probably conclude we should not continue trying to get through to you. It's your choice.

[Starwolf45]

I have been following the remarks that has been said to Eric Redhawk and up until now I had just  thought I would let the majority of you speak your minds, but unfortunately you seem to get things wrong.  As I have been doing so should you all should have been doing with Eric Redhawk, he too be able to speak his mind.  Since I am replying to you, you also have rudely missed the whole point of an OPEN DISCUSSION form.

Some not all had insulted Eirc Redhawk.  He is a young man of 29 years of age, who has every right to feel the way he does, and for those who disagree with his feelings should have said it politely, not say "should explore some of your feelings with a professional listener", call him a non-native american, and treating him like he shouldn't be proud of his native american part.  He's lived with the european part, which most of you have not.  From what I read, he wants to live among his native american relatives and become a part of that nation that he is proud in.

If you think Eric has problems, noooo...there are many who live on the reservations have more of a problem with their heritage.  If you take this as an offense, I'm sorry, but I am your elder, and you will respect me as your elder, as all native americans respect their elders.

Starwolf45

Macuski, if you weren't so self involved, you'd realize two very obvious things:

No one has insulted you or done any wrong to you in here. Just the opposite, people have been amazingly patient and helpful with lots of good advice.

This is in spite of you repeatedly lashing at others in here for "wrongs" and "insults" that largely don't exist outside your imagination. The most obvious was the long harangue you directed at earthw7 for no reason, over things she never said, which you quietly said no more about once you realized she was right, that you'd exploded at her for something nonexistent.

It's pretty obvious you're not really arguing with us. You're arguing (and sometimes getting angry at us) for things you imagine others have done to you. "Oh those darn enrolled Indians are out to get us unenrolled ones!"

In most Indian forums, people would either have ignored you once they realized you weren't about to listen anyway, or they would have gotten fed up and simply driven you out.

But we haven't, largely because we take into account your youth and even more so, your lack of experience around Indian people.

Before you explode, realize that you and your mother are both of distant ancestry to most Indians. You were not raised within Indian cultures.

(And please, spare us any more explosions about "not your fault" or "blame the govt". We already know this. Can you imagine someone who was 1/8 Black showing up at a Black activist forum to lecture the people there about slavery and segregation? These are old facts we already know very well.)

If you had been, no one would even need to explain basic Indian ideas of politeness and patience, which you keep violating left and right. Understand that if you try the same behavior you've shown in here on other Indian forums, or esp in real life, again, you'll either be ignored or shown the door. If you were this rude at some powwows, security would already have hauled you out the gate by your shirt collar.

We here at NAFPS are far more used to people with distant ancestry, so that's why we've up to now cut you so much slack. But if you can't learn to first of all only hold people responsible for things they actually say and not what you repeatedly imagine they say, most of us will probably conclude we should not continue trying to get through to you. It's your choice.

[wolfhawaii]

Let me guess, you're his mother, right? 

[Starwolf45]

Aloha

Let me guess, you're his mother, right? 

[Defend the Sacred]

Let me guess, you're his mother, right? 

Yeah, and I'm from India.   

[Starwolf45]

What?  Are you being disrepectful?  Because if you are, the person I replied to is the only one I want to talk to.  I don't want to talk to you.

Starwolf45

Let me guess, you're his mother, right? 

Yeah, and I'm from India.   

[wolfhawaii]

Aloha Starwolf, so may I ask, are you his mother? I notice you have not introduced yourself on the new member page, that would be helpful. I found it interesting that you are demanding respect as an elder in your first post without benefit of an introduction. It is nice of you to intercede on Eric's behalf but he seems to be plenty able to see only the viewpoints he chooses to and thus is ably defending himself. As you say, he has the right to have the feelings he has, but he does not have the right to expect that others will agree with them. In fact, others here have given him some very good advice but he does not receive it in the way it was given. A more humble approach here on his part and perhaps yours would yield greater benefits in my own humble opinion. Trying to reaffiliate with one's distant tribal ancestry is a worthy task but not an easy one, and the wrong attitude will make it impossible....we ARE trying to help.
PS My comment about him perhaps exploring his feelings with a professional listener was said with good intentions....if I was just dissing him I would have called him a nutjob....BUT I DIDN'T. Obviously these issues are affecting his life in a major way and it could be helpful to him to find out why it is so important to him, with added perspective from a professional.

[frederica]

Mrs Macuski,  Don't come in here and present youself as an Elder.  You may be Eric's elder.  But being an Elder entails more than just age.  It's already been adknowledged  he may have heritage.  But I don't think anyone will validate the "Tribe".   No one is going to do his research.  It has been explained to him by several people.  He doesn't listen and it has gone to mostly smoke and mirrors on his part.  So it is pretty well a closed subject.  And it is not disrespectful, there is nothing more that can be said about the subject that hasn't been said.

[redhawk45]

Apparently it is time for ME to give an answer as to what I think being NDN is, since all I keep getting on here are bits and pieces, including BASHING of those who can prove their native ancestry, and many other derrogatory comments without getting a full answer.

NO..I do not believe someone of 1/64 or even smaller, can claim to be Native.  If they are smaller, and still inter-marries with others that are similar, then they are Metis.  If the amount of blood quantum is 10% or higher in an individual, then they are NDN and have the same rights, responsibilities and priveleges as to any other NDN, federal and non-recognized.

Sure, culture, language, land is important, but so is family, and that includes geneology (which is the study of your famliy lineage), and DNA.  When DNA matches perfectly with someone's geneology, and can even pinpoint which tribes, that's proof on paper.  I learned myself of a deceased friend's adopted parents who did do a DNA, went west to a Federally Recognized tribe, and actually became enrolled because of DNA.  DNA is what is distinctive in your blood.  Sure, some nutjob labs can only say european or whatever...DNAtribes and one other can literally state, with accuracy (and because they are linked with the Federal govt.) which tribe you are from, and how much percentage you have of whatever genetic code from all over the world.

In the U.S., it is demanded of a person to say what he/she is, whether it is white, black, asian, latino, native american, etc.  One cannot pick several, as evident on many forms of documentation, local, state and federal.  When I was taught you had to be one or the other, I picked myself to be NDN, because I BELIEVE I am the last one in my family to hold any NDN blood, and that's why I will marry a woman with NDN blood.

And when someone of NDN blood tries to learn everything he can, EVEN when it is out of books because he/she might not be able to go to the village where his/her tribe is, it still makes him NDN.  You can't tell Sonny Bearing who lives in Lame Deer, MT, that he's not NDN because he is learning his Cheyenne culture out of a book.  He'd protest, show his card, etc, and even someone here said that proof of NDN isn't in a piece of paper.  So, even if a person learns out of a book (and I hope it's a book written by an NDN or someone who lived with them), and knows their family heritage, that still makes them NDN.

Pretty much my answer is the same as nighthawk's, and NO, I don't expect for people to twist my words around and start arguing all over.  I already heard your answers.  If you want, you can either say "I agree" or "I disagree", without giving a lengthy explanation.

Eric

[earthw7]

All I can think of is Alexander the Great

[educatedindian]

Macuski and the brand new member Starwolf have identical ISPs. It's possible he could still be living with his mother at age 29, and there are perfectly valid reasons for that. But "both of them" avoiding answering the questions about whether SW is his mother seems strange.

SW or Mrs Macuski or Eric Macuski, whichever you are, I'm apparently the "only one you will talk to."

Like others have already pointed out...

You don't just declare yourself an elder. No actual elder would do that.

There are also differences between an elder as Natives call them and what whites call an elder. Age by itself is not enough.

Especially since your ID suggests you may be only 45.

And while you may be an elder to Eric Macuski, or to others in your little community, you are not my elder, and would not be considered an elder by most Indians.

An elder would also not insist everyone shut up and accept what they say, as you come very close to saying.

That any of us in here even have to explain any of this to the two of you only says, once again, that you were both not raised among Indians.

And all of this little bit (like Eric's little sidetrack because he was naive enough to believe Nuage exploiters' libel) only gets us off the subject again.

My original post to Eric was not answered by Eric. I hope you, Eric, (and possibly you, Ms Macuski), understand basic points about politeness and patience in Indian cultures. There is much you (both?) have yet to learn.

And Eric, as for your last post, once again...

You imagine bashing where there is none, getting angry at us for things which others outside of here have done.

The points I said in my original post to you remain.

[redhawk45]

Ah, yea, I live with my mother...that's why the same ISP.  I would have replied to your post sooner if it wasn't for her wanting to post.

There's something called 'reading between the lines'...it's not imagining anything.  There is such a thing as subtle comments.  It's something that is learned in college, as you should know since you wrote a dissertation (which is a college thing).

Ah, we live in a mixed culture...white, black, AND NDN.  You cannot just say that I don't live in just an NDN culture, when that culture is still around where I live.  Perhaps, instead of researching NDN's in the military, you should start researching on the fact of why there is a struggle between east and west tribes/nations.  Make a dissertation, and supply me when it gets published so I can read it and understand, if it is fictacious or not.

Oh, I would have been polite and patient with you all if the very FIRST topic about the Alleghenny Lenape, and me and my mother, weren't defamatory in nature.  In fact, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for me doing another search on the Alleghenny Lenape and your site came up.  Every single one questioned the Alleghenny Lenape, questioned me and my mother's ancestry, and now wolfhawaii calling me crazy.  Of course I'd be angered...wouldn't you in my position?  Oh, yea, you HAVE been in my position already, and according to you, many times.

Now, my mother would like to answer in a bit...after I read this PM.

Eric

Macuski, if you weren't so self involved, you'd realize two very obvious things:

No one has insulted you or done any wrong to you in here. Just the opposite, people have been amazingly patient and helpful with lots of good advice.

This is in spite of you repeatedly lashing at others in here for "wrongs" and "insults" that largely don't exist outside your imagination. The most obvious was the long harangue you directed at earthw7 for no reason, over things she never said, which you quietly said no more about once you realized she was right, that you'd exploded at her for something nonexistent.

It's pretty obvious you're not really arguing with us. You're arguing (and sometimes getting angry at us) for things you imagine others have done to you. "Oh those darn enrolled Indians are out to get us unenrolled ones!"

In most Indian forums, people would either have ignored you once they realized you weren't about to listen anyway, or they would have gotten fed up and simply driven you out.

But we haven't, largely because we take into account your youth and even more so, your lack of experience around Indian people.

Before you explode, realize that you and your mother are both of distant ancestry to most Indians. You were not raised within Indian cultures.

(And please, spare us any more explosions about "not your fault" or "blame the govt". We already know this. Can you imagine someone who was 1/8 Black showing up at a Black activist forum to lecture the people there about slavery and segregation? These are old facts we already know very well.)

If you had been, no one would even need to explain basic Indian ideas of politeness and patience, which you keep violating left and right. Understand that if you try the same behavior you've shown in here on other Indian forums, or esp in real life, again, you'll either be ignored or shown the door. If you were this rude at some powwows, security would already have hauled you out the gate by your shirt collar.

We here at NAFPS are far more used to people with distant ancestry, so that's why we've up to now cut you so much slack. But if you can't learn to first of all only hold people responsible for things they actually say and not what you repeatedly imagine they say, most of us will probably conclude we should not continue trying to get through to you. It's your choice.

[debbieredbear]

eric said:

If they are smaller, and still inter-marries with others that are similar, then they are Metis.

Uh, no. A Metis is a specific mix of heritage. A legal definition. Not mearly someone who is mixed blood. Most Metis people live in Canada. In the US, it has become fashionable for mixed bloods and thin bloods to call themselves Metis, but saying it does not make it true. There are some Metis people in this country. Mostly at Turtle Mountain in North Dakota but also some in Montana at Rocky Boy and also the Little Shell people. Get your facts straight.