Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby & Sarah "Eagle Song" Crosby-van der Zee

[educatedindian]

Ishi "Fire Cloud" Crosby is now active in the Dutch province of Fryslân. Supposedly 'chief of the Pipe Society of the (European?) Susquehannock Tribe' he works with a woman named Margriet Wolf who calls herself Margriet "Many Fires White Rainbow Wolf". The 'wolf' bit actually is her real surname I think. She is a member of the Susquahannock Tribe of Florida. She is a 'body-oriented psychotherapist, emotional body-oriented trauma therapist, masseur, healer and guide who specializes in the (therapeutic) guidance of adults and children with traumas who need extra help'. Her target group includes "children or adults with autism related disorders, delusions, mental handicaps, ADHD, high sensitivity or something similar."

Her website is manyfires.nl and she also appears on the site http://susquehannock.net/societys_in_europe/dutch/wolf.htm Apparently she is the chief of the Dutch 'Wolf Society''Wolf Society' which promotes "spiritual growth according to Indian or druidic tradition". On June 26th she will welcome Robin Youngblood, another acquaintance of this site I think. Robin will give personal readings and healings.
Margriet Wolf is also a water pourer during sweat lodge ceremonies and urges people with "phobias, depression, trauma, AIDS, lung disorders, etc" to participate in the ceremony. She does advice against participation by people who either have a pacemaker or suffer from "certain cardiac disorders or forms of breathlesness and contagious diseases" but states that she is "a trauma expert" and she will be able to advice people whether or not they can participate.
She also teaches the Wolf Clan Teachings by Grandmother Twylah Nitsch. During the course everybody will creates their own little medicine wheel by using 'indian beads'. Participants 12 years and older. Margriet's

Another seemingly important member of this gang is Jolanda "Sun Crow" (chief of the Crow SOciety http://www.crowsociety.com/crows.html) who says she was initiated by 'black shamans' in Mongolia after the spirit of a 13th or 14th century wise woman possessed her. Her 'tribe members' are all shamans or healers or mediums and all but one of them are Dutch, the exception being one Belgian. They're also all members of the European Susquahannock tribe.

Litsehimmel

The Susquehannocks are imposters. That includes in America since they were wiped out centuries ago. Nitsche was an exploiter, the same as Youngblood still is.

Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.

And if she realizes infected people should not be at a sweat? Who is more vulnerable to infection than someone with AIDS? There's also no reason young children should be at a sweat.

Looking at the photos of the so called Crow Society, they all appear like adults who are playing dress up Halloween. They even break into big grins at their play acting.

And their names? Humming Whale? Many Fires White Rainbow Wolf? Not content with one twinkie name, she has to combine three.

No doubt these two will be joined by their fellow tribe members Gargling Underwater and Hears Many Voices A Spectrum With Only One Color Hyena.

[Sturmboe]

Wolf Society http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=5
Is there any evidence she got a right to threat people with traumatic stress disorder or other mental issues? What is her profession? A profession with a medical basics?

I don´t know the netherlands rights about psychotherapeutic treatments. It could be that she is only allowed to treat those people with traumatic stress just by a decree of a doctor, psychotherapist or psychologist. People with other medical professisons can also learn some psychological treatments, but it doesn´t mean that they can automatically use this on their own decision, if they got not the basic education.

Maybe she got no education and it is participation at one's own risk and this woman won´t be responsible for the results.



[/quote]
Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.
[/quote]

This would be a worse result. There is another problem. Those who work with people with PTSD and other forms of traumatic stress got a task to prepare a prooved safty place for a person with PTSD, in this way the ill person wants and need it, during the therapy. And the ill person needs to get the controll over this situation. Can be a place really safety if an ill person even don´t know what a sweat lodge is? This situation in the past, from which raised a traumatic issue, this was also a situation and a place unsafty. Can this ill person stop the situation and finish it, if it is too much? If he can offer the signals to other....
Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? I don´t know how, in the darkness, the heat, the sounds from the fire and singing, this all can disguise the signals of the person, who showes them but did not recognized it on his own, maybe he  get in freeze or in fight or flight modus. This reaction can be dangerous for all participations. Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

On the other side I heard about sweat lodges lead by Natives for Natives with PTSD. What kind of knowledge and tradition they got to heal people with PTSD I don´t know. Every culture has their own traditional ways to treat, they belong to their way.

[Litsehimmel]

Wolf is incredibly reckless. She is endangering the lives of those in her sweats even more than most frauds. Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.

Thank you for explaining that. Should she be made aware of this? Although I seriously doubt that she will stop her activities and cut herself off from this source of income 


LH

[Litsehimmel]

Wolf Society http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=5
Is there any evidence she got a right to threat people with traumatic stress disorder or other mental issues? What is her profession? A profession with a medical basics?

She has several 'official' registrations, like a so-called AGB-code (Algemeen Gegevens Beheer = General Data Management) which basically enables people to have costs reimbursed by their health insurance; a NVPIT-code (Nederlandse Vereniging voor Postural Integration Therapeuten = Dutch Society for Postural Integration Therapy), which means she is a registered member of this society; and she is a "Certified Somatic Experiencing Practitioner", which means she is certified to help people deal with and overcome Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other traumatic experiences. I was actually referred to her due to problems with our youngest (step-)son but had the willies scared out of me when I started to check her out and saw all this " Somewhere Over The Rainbow" stuff.

The Somatic Experiencing thing was developed by one Dr. Peter Levine. The Dutch branch facilitates schooling for health practitioners as well as teachers and other people who deal with traumatized individuals. It's supposedly a 3-year course. The therapy itself works opposite to the general therapy of talking about the traumatic experience. Instead it focuses on the 'physical aspect and the self healing ability of the body'. So it says in the Dutch brochure.

Maybe she got no education and it is participation at one's own risk and this woman won´t be responsible for the results.

Basically everything in The Netherlands as far as health is concerned is at one's own risk; medical culpability and being able to sue somebody is almost impossible here.

There is another problem. [...] Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

I'm sure she really thinks she can. She appears to be very sure of herself, even offering these forms of therapy and sweats to children. You can be sure though that our son will not be treated by her.

On the other side I heard about sweat lodges lead by Natives for Natives with PTSD. What kind of knowledge and tradition they got to heal people with PTSD I don´t know. Every culture has their own traditional ways to treat, they belong to their way.

Hazarding a guess, maybe within one's own culture it's easier to find a (common) reference point from which to work towards healing. All I know is that, if our autistic 14-year old (who does suffer from PTSD) were stuck into a dark sweat lodge and subjected to this form of therapy, he would go apeshit! And even if it was given by a native person he would freak, simply because he does not know about these things.

All in all I have to agree that this is potentially very dangerous, and I wonder if anybody has ever complained about her practices or has even suffered the worst for it. I will look into that.

LH

[Litsehimmel]

There's definitely dirt to be found on this Margriet Wolf person. First of all she is a known associate of Waynonaha Two Worlds who has her own thread on this forum (2006). Here's a link to Margriet organizing things for Waynonaha in 2003 http://marjahoefsmit.tripod.com/gast/lezing/waynonaha.htm

But even more dangerous, she has worked as a counselor for a so-called 'reintegration company' called Artemis. (http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/margriet-wolf/32/877/78a) And that company is - or at least was - a very dangerous institution. Here's (part of) a scathing newspaper article on this company from 2004. (translated from source http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844/Archief/archief/article/detail/706789/2004/03/01/Artemis-helpt-vrouwen-door-woedefase-heen.dhtml)

Artemis is said to venture into the field of public mental health without any form of licensing, and at the detriment of women with severe psychological problems.

Artemis is a sect.

The black book circulating on internet since the past few months tears the company to shreds. Artemis and its seven national subsidiaries which annually try to help approx. 220 women with severe psychological problems find a job, is called 'dangerous' and 'unsafe'.

Director-owner Jeannette Poorter does not seem to be impressed by the criticism. Her company has fallen prey to a defamation campaign, is her opinion. "By women who have gotten stuck in the agner phase. Such a shame."

She does not even try to refute the reproach that Artemis is a sect. "You might consider it to be a compliment. It indicates that you have vision. The only difference is that I allow you to leave." The resistance is even understandable according to Poorter. " Artemis is an experiment. All new things generate resistance."

The black book tells the poignant experiences that 28 women had with the company. Artemis, which exclusively deals with women and in doing so has an average annual income of 800,000 euro, mostly government funded, is said to push its clients even further down into depression. 

"Women who have just been released from a closed insititution are put to work within Artemis for 24 hours per week, without any form of coaching" says M.H. from G. who took the initiative for the internet black book. "I don't know of any woman who has found a paid job outside of Artemis."

H. herself worked at Artemis for 1,5 years. She arrived with a burn-out and made it to general manager of all seven centers. "Until my conscious kicked in" she says. I thought I could change the company policy, but to no avail."

Artemis coaches her clients according to the 'female freemason principle' says owner Jeannette Poorter. The women arrive as 'spinsters'. unaware of themselves and their history. Through the course 'offering to invest' in which the women are confronted with their past, and many of them have experienced sexual abuse, they arrive in the phase of 'weaver'. A quiet phase, according to Poorter.

In this phase women at Artemis receive 'the turn-around', an assesment of 11 half-days during which they're advised to start working on 'what their soul wants'. "In fifteen years society will be taken over by the right brain, the feminine consciousness" states Poorter. "During 'the Turn-around' I re-educate women into that new consciousness."

After the clients have completed the Turn-around, they will have moved past the anger phase and can enter the phase of 'designer' according to Poorter. "Designers create their own lives" she explains. "It's the entrepeneur's phase, you do not have to set up your live as others would have you do." Once women realize this, they are free and can handle anything, is the underlying idea.

Total cost of the process: 13,000 euro plus 750 euro for the Turn-around.

(Did not translate the rest of the article;emphasis added by me)

Jeannette Poorter was found guilty of embezzlement of government money by a court of law in 2007 but emigrated to Equador before sentence could be carried out. She briefly returned in 2009 but quickly left again and is still living there. Want to hear something scary? She teaches courses to native South American indians! One can only guess at what crap she tries to push into their minds!

Here's her FB https://www.facebook.com/jeannette.poorter.3

And Margriet Wolf is still so proud of her involvement with this sect that she lists it on her career background. Definitely somebody to be very weary of.

LH

[Sturmboe]

 She has several 'official' registrations, like a so-called AGB-code (Algemeen Gegevens Beheer = General Data Management) which basically enables people to have costs reimbursed by their health insurance; a NVPIT-code (Nederlandse Vereniging voor Postural Integration Therapeuten = Dutch Society for Postural Integration Therapy), which means she is a registered member of this society; and she is a "Certified Somatic Experiencing Practitioner", which means she is certified to help people deal with and overcome Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other traumatic experiences. I was actually referred to her due to problems with our youngest (step-)son but had the willies scared out of me when I started to check her out and saw all this " Somewhere Over The Rainbow" stuff.

The Somatic Experiencing thing was developed by one Dr. Peter Levine. The Dutch branch facilitates schooling for health practitioners as well as teachers and other people who deal with traumatized individuals. It's supposedly a 3-year course. The therapy itself works opposite to the general therapy of talking about the traumatic experience. Instead it focuses on the 'physical aspect and the self healing ability of the body'. So it says in the Dutch brochure.[/quote]


        Well, you can work on the physical way to help people with PTSD. There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist. You can help with physical therapies that people with PTSD can get a connection to themselves (this could be a way), but you can also go too far and the patient will decompensate, maybe get flashbacks and intrusions. To work in a physical way with this patients is not easy.
It could be someone get a lot of education to treat these ill people, but does it mean he can decide on his own what to do with them? I am not sure. In Germany there are different education for non - psychotherapists, you can use these therapies but only with the approval of the psychothrapist.
Wolf got an education in EMDR, this is a therapy with good results. But she can learn it without being a psychotherapist or psychologist with special education in psychotraumatology? I wonder if this is possible in some countries.

There is another problem. [...] Can Wolf be sure she recognizes all the signs? Can Wolf change something in the situation quickly to turn away a dangerous situation? I cannot imagine.

[/quote]I'm sure she really thinks she can. She appears to be very sure of herself, even offering these forms of therapy and sweats to children. You can be sure though that our son will not be treated by her.
[/quote]


        This would be a bullshit, big bullshit because you can never be sure for 100% if you recognize all the signs or not. And during a therapy you neesd all your senses and must be able to change the treat, within in a short time.

[Litsehimmel]

[...]There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist.[...]

Sounds pretty logical, making sure medical expertise is guaranteed. However, I don't think that's the case here.

Wolf got an education in EMDR, this is a therapy with good results. But she can learn it without being a psychotherapist or psychologist with special education in psychotraumatology? I wonder if this is possible in some countries.

I checked the registration list of the officialDutch EMDR site, and she is not registered there. This means that she also isn't in the BIG-register (https://www.bigregister.nl/en/), the national list of registered and accredited health care workers and therapists. According to her site (http://manyfires.nl/index.php?id=19) she followed an EMDR-course with the BIVT, Bijscholing Instituut voor Therapeuten (Institute for Additional Scholing for Therapists), which has its own register of "Co-operative Dutch EMDR therapists". She is, however, not officially accredited.

This would be a bullshit, big bullshit because you can never be sure for 100% if you recognize all the signs or not. And during a therapy you neesd all your senses and must be able to change the treat, within in a short time.

The fact that she did not follow an officially recognized study, at least not in as far as being officially registered, definitely implies that one needs to be very careful if opting to use her as a therapist. I, for one, won't gamble our son's health on her 'knowledge' .

[Sturmboe]

[...]There are a lot of different treatments for those people, physical is one way ...arts, sports, etc., but never the only way. And all therapists need conection with the psychotherapiest or psychologist.[...]

Sounds pretty logical, making sure medical expertise is guaranteed. However, I don't think that's the case here.

The case is that therapists better should know in which way a psychologist / psychotherapist works with his patient, so that the therapist does not wotk against the psychotherapie. If a psychologist decide to stabilize his patient it would be not ok to solve physical blocades completely, not with massage, osteopathie, manual therapies.
Therapist got to know about psychological practice to be sensible for alarmringing caued by a reaction of the patient.
If the therapist, no matter in which special field / profession he works, it can be that he works contrary to the psychologist - and the psychologist wonders himself, why his works does not run, the patient is not able to follow the psychotherapy.

Almost every one of those types of ill people should NOT be at a sweat. Traumatized people may wind up reliving the traumas and have psychotic episodes.
[/quote]

Fact is that everything can trigger and reliving intrusions and flashbacks, it could be a color, a smell, a gesture, a word, a reaction, a position, alone or in combination, very different from patient to patient. If a patient lose his control about a sitiuationit  can leave him in a helpless position, this also can happen if the patient cannot keep observing the therapist ...
And all this does not mean the patient recognizes this on his own .... or if he recognizes it, that he is able to change the situation. In this case the therapist must react, immediatly and cautiously. Whatever happened you better contact the psychologist or psychotherapist and tell about it. He decides at least how to go on in the therapy of other professions.

If Margriet Wolf is not a medical doctor, not a psychologist or psychotherapist, if she got no medical education, than she got lacks of basic knowledge of medicine, psychology, neuroanatomy and neuropsychology. She would translate the medicine matter with her own point of view - and this can lead to false results.

M. Wolf teaches on her own, ... not only workshops as it seems but her own way other therapists, who "are able to heal" people with mental issues.


It should be in general word wide, if you want to make an medical or psychological advanced training you should present at first your diploma or certification of your profession, then the institute decides, if youcan get the permit to graduate the advanced training or not.
[/quote]