New post from a new guy: Preston from California

[Preston]

Hello, NAFPS folks:

I'm Preston, I've been lurking here for about a month after getting the link from a friend, a feminist blogger who is very concerned with issues of cultural appropriation.  She was right, great work is being done here.  I hope you continue in the face of the attacks you receive.  This is a good place.

You won't hear much from me, but I didn't want to just lurk around, so I thought I would register and introduce myself.  Mostly I want to come here and learn, if that's OK with the mods and everyone. 

My interest in being here is twofold: first, I am a non-Indian and want to learn about the issues that are being discussed here.  Second, I am studying to be a clergyman in my own tradition (Roman Catholic Christianity) and I see so many dangers and pitfalls for myself and my friends in your depictions of the frauds you expose on this site. 

I guess what I'm really saying is, I would never want to be an "exhibit" in a website like this one! 

But I also know, as I progress on this long path of study in my own faith tradition, that the dangers that face me come from my own weaknesses inside--for example, the desire of a man in his 50's to be an authority figure; the conviction that I must be right if I feel "really, really strongly" about something. 

Maybe the out-and-out crooks that you expose are just that, cynical con-men and women and just plain old nasty crooks.  But I also think some people that I've seen discussed here are deluded or insane, or maybe just people that started out, like me, with good intentions and then became deluded or insane.   

Either way, I have gotten a lot of food for thought from considering the implications, as I follow the discernment path that I'm on.

So that's who I am and how I got here.  Blessings and good wishes to all,

Preston

ETA: I meant what I said about "if it's OK with the mods etc."  If directed by a mod, I will be happy to leave, w/ no hard feelings.

[Kevin]

I don't know why you think you would be asked to leave as long as you conduct yourself as a decent human being - there are probably more non Indians here than the real deal and most people are not inherently racist, i.e. not wanting someone around because of their heritage and skin color. You sound as if you half ways expected to be excluded because of your heritage and color, but then I could be wrong. Few people like thieves,  be they stealing culture or material goods and most people do not like frauds, be they career politicians or rip-off artists exploiting people's quest for spiritual growth. That is common ground here and like you said, non Indians can learn alot here. I also liked what you said about older people often thinking they are some kind of authority figure based on age and life experience. One thing I have always respected about Indians is they give their older people full opportunity to share what they know and they honor their Veterans regardless of the current political trends in force. I see two types of crooks being exposed here. Most are out for money, recognition and control of people's lives and they are in the great majority but there is an insidious few, very sophisticated and clever, who are truly malicious and out to desecrate and delude and destroy Indian spirituality. These in my opinion are the real black art witches whose power is derived from chaos and suffering and it is just about impossible to truly identify them and pin them down. They are not limited in attacking Indians only but I have long suspected  the milieu of Indian cultures affords them the best backdrop from which to operate.

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi Preston and welcome

Preston

Maybe the out-and-out crooks that you expose are just that, cynical con-men and women and just plain old nasty crooks.  But I also think some people that I've seen discussed here are deluded or insane, or maybe just people that started out, like me, with good intentions and then became deluded or insane.   

I think it's true that a lot of the people discussed here began with a bit of a true insight or good intentions which somehow got corupted.

On the other hand , many of people discussed here who are claiming to be NDN or to know Native traditions , have to know they are not who they say they are, and that they don't really know what they claim to know. I doubt people who are blatent liars really have any good intentions or insight.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but, I wonder if that commandment that says, "Thou shalt not take the Lords name in vain ", might have originally been refering to the people who misuse the Sacred for their own vainity? I guess why I wonder this is because the word used is "vain" and not "anger. Vanity is different than anger , so I wonder why this commandment just gets understood as meaning people should not say " Oh God" when they feel frustrated .

Maybe plastics have been a big problem for a long time and in many traditions .... 

It seems insightful of you to recognize the many ways people get off track might be something to learn from and guard against.   

[Preston]

Thanks, Kevin and moma_porcupine, for writing a welcome! 

@Kevin
I didn't think I would be excluded in those ways, Keven, but I see where I could have given that impression.  I lurked around here some before posting, so I see that non-Native people post here.   A lot of people, esp. guys my age & background, have a big attitude about stomping around on the internet and saying whatever they want wherever they want because "free speech" etc.  (Same as the frauds do, I guess.)  I said what I did to let the mods know I would not act in that way. 

@moma_porcupine
My take on that question is that Jewish tradition, which leads to Christianity, places a huge amount of importance on the holy name of the Creator.   "Vain" I read to mean "selfish" (like we say that someone who is too proud is vain).  So we shouldn't use the name of the Creator for silly or selfish reasons, or for any reason other than reverence, and never thoughtlessly.  Definitely never to curse someone.

Some posts I have seen on NAFPS point to the danger that the fakes and frauds put themselves in by stealing traditions.  In the same way I think that cursing someone in God's name is a very dangerous and pointless thing to do.   

I'll tell you, it will be at least 5 more years before I become ordained, if it happens at all, and coming to NAFPS has been a real eye-opener for me.  Now when I go to school, there's a whole new level of nut-case behavior I can see, in all of us there.