Hey from Oklahoma

[918ndnOkie]

Names Kyle, Im Cherokee Nation and Osage Nation    and OMG im Enrolled haha!
Im from a small town called Barnsdall which is close to Pawhuska and Bartlesville and ummm? IDK ask away

[918ndnOkie]

Oh and I really dont need to learn who the frauds are...its pretty obvious who is and who isnt native...look at em, and if its hard to tell then talk to em...lol

and if they say they are cherokee from oklahoma and claim they go to corn dance or stomp then I can immediately call BS on em....

[Defend the Sacred]

Welcome to the board, Kyle.  Yeah, to people raised in their traditional communities, it's very obvious who the frauds are. It's not always clear who the predators are, though, depending on how a particular community handles abuse; but those things always catch up to people eventually, as well.

I think the main people this board protects are those who didn't grow up in NDN communities (or other traditional cultures that are occasionally touched on here). It's hard to believe when you've been raised otherwise, but outsiders really don't know what to watch out for.

Hopefully you can help educate those who think that just having some sort of NDN ancestry makes someone a part of any and all NDN cultures, or that having some ancestry somehow means they can lead ceremonies they never properly learned.

As you've probably seen, we get people here all the time who seem to think attending a pow wow or watching hollywood NDNs (or hanging out on the Internet ;-)) means they know the culture in question.

Again, welcome :-)

[918ndnOkie]

Welcome to the board, Kyle.  Yeah, to people raised in their traditional communities, it's very obvious who the frauds are. It's not always clear who the predators are, though, depending on how a particular community handles abuse; but those things always catch up to people eventually, as well.

I think the main people this board protects are those who didn't grow up in NDN communities (or other traditional cultures that are occasionally touched on here). It's hard to believe when you've been raised otherwise, but outsiders really don't know what to watch out for.

Hopefully you can help educate those who think that just having some sort of NDN ancestry makes someone a part of any and all NDN cultures, or that having some ancestry somehow means they can lead ceremonies they never properly learned.

As you've probably seen, we get people here all the time who seem to think attending a pow wow or watching hollywood NDNs (or hanging out on the Internet ;-)) means they know the culture in question.

Again, welcome :-)

Yeah I see ALOT of Internet ndns, there are atleast a few of em running around on these boards right now, who claim this and that quantum, but I know for a fact that they are not enrolled in either the Cherokee Nation in OK or the Keetoowah Band of Cherokee in Oklahoma.....gotta cuz who works in the enrollement office lol

but thanks for the welcome. Im really here not to look out for those around the community because hell im in oklahoma, ndns know one another and fake things dont go down to well or often out here.
but im here mainly for those pretending to be ndn on the internet and thinking they are doing a service by going around to protests, when all they really consist of is white blood with questionable native lineage, and wear turquoise to make themselves feel "authentic"

hell we had some come to tulsa not too long ago to protest a game because one of the schools mascots is the red men. now in all the time ive been alive and coherent of the world around me never once has the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole or surounding smaller nations ever called out the mascot usage, but when the predominately white or white acting ndns came to town they had to make a ruckus. Its people like that who give real skins a bad rap around these parts

[tachia]

correction .. the Union High School mascot is "REDSKINS" not red men .. i understand that is the team you were there rooting for at that game .. ..

perhaps you would like to tell David Hill and the ALL NDN members of TICAR to their face that YOU think they are "white" .. come on kyle you should know better, especially if you are as informed with what is going on in the ndn communities as you claim to be  .. if you were then you would KNOW that TICAR IS a TULSA based organization and has been fighting the Mascot issue IN Oklahoma for YEARS .. and that they organized the protest .. not a bunch of outsiders "coming to town" to make a ruckus, nor a bunch of "whites" nor a bunch of "white acting ndn's" .. TICAR has been making a very significant "ruckus" for a long time and has succeeded in causing many changes to the schools blatant racism against ndn's! ..

TICAR - Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism: http://www.ticarok.org/

just wanted to make that clarification, "REDSKINS" !!! not red men .. ..

and to ask you nicely to cease with the flaming, personal attacks, etc .. take it back to myspace where it is acceptable and so entertaining for you all ..

[bls926]

Yeah I see ALOT of Internet ndns, there are atleast a few of em running around on these boards right now, who claim this and that quantum, but I know for a fact that they are not enrolled in either the Cherokee Nation in OK or the Keetoowah Band of Cherokee in Oklahoma.....gotta cuz who works in the enrollement office lol

but thanks for the welcome. Im really here not to look out for those around the community because hell im in oklahoma, ndns know one another and fake things dont go down to well or often out here.
but im here mainly for those pretending to be ndn on the internet and thinking they are doing a service by going around to protests, when all they really consist of is white blood with questionable native lineage, and wear turquoise to make themselves feel "authentic"

hell we had some come to tulsa not too long ago to protest a game because one of the schools mascots is the red men. now in all the time ive been alive and coherent of the world around me never once has the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole or surounding smaller nations ever called out the mascot usage, but when the predominately white or white acting ndns came to town they had to make a ruckus. Its people like that who give real skins a bad rap around these parts

You've got to be kidding! You don't see a problem with Indians as mascots?? Child, you have a lot to learn. It might benefit you to keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth closed for a while. Unfuckingbelievable!!

[wolfhawaii]

and if they say they are cherokee from oklahoma and claim they go to corn dance or stomp then I can immediately call BS on em....

Ulihelisdi Kyle, welcome to the board....from your tagline and intro you seem like a choogie with a bit of an attitude, hope you keep it level. Where is your home fire?

[918ndnOkie]

and if they say they are cherokee from oklahoma and claim they go to corn dance or stomp then I can immediately call BS on em....

Ulihelisdi Kyle, welcome to the board....from your tagline and intro you seem like a choogie with a bit of an attitude, hope you keep it level. Where is your home fire?

LOL! just a bit! But Squirell Hill down by stillwell

[918ndnOkie]

correction .. the Union High School mascot is "REDSKINS" not red men .. i understand that is the team you were there rooting for at that game .. ..

perhaps you would like to tell David Hill and the ALL NDN members of TICAR to their face that YOU think they are "white" .. come on kyle you should know better, especially if you are as informed with what is going on in the ndn communities as you claim to be  .. if you were then you would KNOW that TICAR IS a TULSA based organization and has been fighting the Mascot issue IN Oklahoma for YEARS .. and that they organized the protest .. not a bunch of outsiders "coming to town" to make a ruckus, nor a bunch of "whites" nor a bunch of "white acting ndn's" .. TICAR has been making a very significant "ruckus" for a long time and has succeeded in causing many changes to the schools blatant racism against ndn's! ..

TICAR - Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism: http://www.ticarok.org/

just wanted to make that clarification, "REDSKINS" !!! not red men .. ..

and to ask you nicely to cease with the flaming, personal attacks, etc .. take it back to myspace where it is acceptable and so entertaining for you all ..

I never once made a "personal attack" as I never once stated a person. And yeah I did cheer for Union and my fault i was thinking about NSU Red Men at the time, but my cousin played football there.

but what I did see at the rally were alot of white people especially on TV when they protested downtown. I recognized a few people, you and mvskokelady but you yourself gotta admit, there is alot of white people with white guilt protesting

[918ndnOkie]

Yeah I see ALOT of Internet ndns, there are atleast a few of em running around on these boards right now, who claim this and that quantum, but I know for a fact that they are not enrolled in either the Cherokee Nation in OK or the Keetoowah Band of Cherokee in Oklahoma.....gotta cuz who works in the enrollement office lol

but thanks for the welcome. Im really here not to look out for those around the community because hell im in oklahoma, ndns know one another and fake things dont go down to well or often out here.
but im here mainly for those pretending to be ndn on the internet and thinking they are doing a service by going around to protests, when all they really consist of is white blood with questionable native lineage, and wear turquoise to make themselves feel "authentic"

hell we had some come to tulsa not too long ago to protest a game because one of the schools mascots is the red men. now in all the time ive been alive and coherent of the world around me never once has the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole or surounding smaller nations ever called out the mascot usage, but when the predominately white or white acting ndns came to town they had to make a ruckus. Its people like that who give real skins a bad rap around these parts

You've got to be kidding! You don't see a problem with Indians as mascots?? Child, you have a lot to learn. It might benefit you to keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth closed for a while. Unfuckingbelievable!!

LMFAO, Im not keeping my mouth shut because guess what? There are more pressing issues than a few mostly white people getting their feelings hurt by mascot names.

lets see....Meth is running rampant in NE Oklahoma especially in Osage, Washington, Nowata, Deleware and many other counties. The Poverty rate amongst many in NE Oklahoma is re-damn-diculous. Hmm the rate in alcoholism has risen in this part of the state, the amount of child abuse and neglect has gone up, the amount of food stamps and comods being issued has risen....

hmm I think I will keep my mouth open for those causes...maybe once you wake up and realize there are much more pressing and deserving issues I will take your words with an ounce of attention, but until then live in your world of ndn mascots and fake plastic shaman.

I have family who struggle, not because of some damn redskin mascot but because they are losing jobs to the economy, who are losing sanity because the pipe or the bottle makes it go away for a period of time, and who are losing their kids in the way of respect and all........

your attempt to make the mascot issue bigger than it was, is stupid.
Why dont you get fired up and leave the mascot thing alone and get on the ball with these issues?

[bullhead]

Hey kyle
if you read the front page of this web site ,it explains what this web site is all about.Fakes ,frauds etc.
you bring up some very important issues,I can only speak for myself but i think most if not all aboriginal people find the issue`s that you raised as very important.BUT the MASCOT ISSUE is a very important issue as well .for me Kyle the # 1 issue nation wide is what is happening to our Aborignal Women.
they are the highest risk group to be  beaten,mudered ,raped.
how do you expect to get help for your important issues, when you go around and DISRECPECT most of us,we have to work together.
I don`t know if your interested kyle but there are some very good "Native Social Work Jorunals" { nishnaabe kinoomaadwin naadmaadwin } they come from canada, Sudbury, ontario, "Laurentian University",they were given to me by an ojibway elder who teaches native social work at this university,he was also involved in putting these journals together,i have 3 of them ,there might be more haven`t heard,i think they are very good.

[tachia]

correction .. the Union High School mascot is "REDSKINS" not red men .. i understand that is the team you were there rooting for at that game .. ..

perhaps you would like to tell David Hill and the ALL NDN members of TICAR to their face that YOU think they are "white" .. come on kyle you should know better, especially if you are as informed with what is going on in the ndn communities as you claim to be  .. if you were then you would KNOW that TICAR IS a TULSA based organization and has been fighting the Mascot issue IN Oklahoma for YEARS .. and that they organized the protest .. not a bunch of outsiders "coming to town" to make a ruckus, nor a bunch of "whites" nor a bunch of "white acting ndn's" .. TICAR has been making a very significant "ruckus" for a long time and has succeeded in causing many changes to the schools blatant racism against ndn's! ..

TICAR - Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism: http://www.ticarok.org/

just wanted to make that clarification, "REDSKINS" !!! not red men .. ..

and to ask you nicely to cease with the flaming, personal attacks, etc .. take it back to myspace where it is acceptable and so entertaining for you all ..

I never once made a "personal attack" as I never once stated a person. And yeah I did cheer for Union and my fault i was thinking about NSU Red Men at the time, but my cousin played football there.

but what I did see at the rally were alot of white people especially on TV when they protested downtown. I recognized a few people, you and mvskokelady but you yourself gotta admit, there is alot of white people with white guilt protesting

kyle .. thanks for clearing that up with your being mistaken on about the team .. not real sure if "red men" is any less offensive .. but ah well .. ..

kyle .. are you going to base your judgment of who is ndn and who is not on the way people "look"? .. you know you look pretty white yourself, and i have never questioned your ndn-ness .. .. i was at that Union mascot protest, as you well know, and i know for a FACT that there was only one non-ndn there .. the news station specifically asked up if there were any non-ndn's with us, supporting us, that they could  interview to get a non-ndn view of it .. yes there was, ONE, and she is awesome to support TICAR and other groups of ndn's as she does, and yes that interview was on tv .. i do not know what color someone has to be to be considered ndn to you, darker than you maybe? .. look at the photos on TICARS website, are those people dark enough for you? .. those are the people that were at the Union mascot protest .. .. look around you kyle, oklahoma has some of the most light skinned ndn's around .. including you .. .. perhpas you should not be so quick to judge? .. .. the members of TICAR word really hard at what they do! .. the members of SPIRIT work really hard at what they do! .. a LOT of our people work very hard, giving selflessly of themselves and their time to HELPour peoples kyle! ..

yes there are other issues in ndn country, we all know that, and many of are working on those issues as well! .. .. so, what are you doing about them all,  or even one, kyle? .. are you working with any of the many ndn organizations in  Okla that fight for your peoples  rights and a better way of life? .. perhaps you should not judge those who do until you have done so yourself? ..

i do not know which downtown protest your talking about .. so i cannot comment on that one ..

i will indeed admit that are a lot of white  people that are allowed to join "some" protests .. and yep they only do it out of white guilt .. "white do gooders" as we call em .. and yep, usually they cause more harm than  any help .. .. and then there are the very dedicated non-ndn's that completely respect us and work very hard  to support us in our efforts to make a better life for our people .. guess you have to be involved in  the issues to be able to know which is which .. ..  ..

your a good kid kyle .. i have said that to you before .. beneath the typical arrogance of someone your age . .there is much more to you .. .. most adults do not take the time to look for it .. but i have always seen it in you .. .. bls gave you some good advice .. advice that i am sure your own Elders and Family have given you since the day you were old enough to comprehend .. .. OBSERVE, listen, learn .. perhaps do not be so quick to judge .. so quick to speak .. .. observe, listen, learn .. and that works both way kyle, for i really believe that we "old folks" can learn a lot from our young people as well! ..it is a two way street, but you have to realize that your elders have so many years of life experience and knowledge that sometime you must just shut up and listen, respect that they do know more than you in somethings, respect them .. .. ..  ..

hang in there kyle .. like i said there is more to you than maybe you want people to see .. .. ..

[earthw7]

welcome i guess, Standing Rock Sioux tribe here Oh I am enrolled and look it if that is what you want to hear. i hate the mascot issues everything is stolen even the names. all issues concerning naticve are important. it depends on what you are doing for your people to solve the problems.

[918ndnOkie]

correction .. the Union High School mascot is "REDSKINS" not red men .. i understand that is the team you were there rooting for at that game .. ..

perhaps you would like to tell David Hill and the ALL NDN members of TICAR to their face that YOU think they are "white" .. come on kyle you should know better, especially if you are as informed with what is going on in the ndn communities as you claim to be  .. if you were then you would KNOW that TICAR IS a TULSA based organization and has been fighting the Mascot issue IN Oklahoma for YEARS .. and that they organized the protest .. not a bunch of outsiders "coming to town" to make a ruckus, nor a bunch of "whites" nor a bunch of "white acting ndn's" .. TICAR has been making a very significant "ruckus" for a long time and has succeeded in causing many changes to the schools blatant racism against ndn's! ..

TICAR - Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism: http://www.ticarok.org/

just wanted to make that clarification, "REDSKINS" !!! not red men .. ..

and to ask you nicely to cease with the flaming, personal attacks, etc .. take it back to myspace where it is acceptable and so entertaining for you all ..

I never once made a "personal attack" as I never once stated a person. And yeah I did cheer for Union and my fault i was thinking about NSU Red Men at the time, but my cousin played football there.

but what I did see at the rally were alot of white people especially on TV when they protested downtown. I recognized a few people, you and mvskokelady but you yourself gotta admit, there is alot of white people with white guilt protesting

kyle .. thanks for clearing that up with your being mistaken on about the team .. not real sure if "red men" is any less offensive .. but ah well .. ..

kyle .. are you going to base your judgment of who is ndn and who is not on the way people "look"? .. you know you look pretty white yourself, and i have never questioned your ndn-ness .. .. i was at that Union mascot protest, as you well know, and i know for a FACT that there was only one non-ndn there .. the news station specifically asked up if there were any non-ndn's with us, supporting us, that they could  interview to get a non-ndn view of it .. yes there was, ONE, and she is awesome to support TICAR and other groups of ndn's as she does, and yes that interview was on tv .. i do not know what color someone has to be to be considered ndn to you, darker than you maybe? .. look at the photos on TICARS website, are those people dark enough for you? .. those are the people that were at the Union mascot protest .. .. look around you kyle, oklahoma has some of the most light skinned ndn's around .. including you .. .. perhpas you should not be so quick to judge? .. .. the members of TICAR word really hard at what they do! .. the members of SPIRIT work really hard at what they do! .. a LOT of our people work very hard, giving selflessly of themselves and their time to HELPour peoples kyle! ..

yes there are other issues in ndn country, we all know that, and many of are working on those issues as well! .. .. so, what are you doing about them all,  or even one, kyle? .. are you working with any of the many ndn organizations in  Okla that fight for your peoples  rights and a better way of life? .. perhaps you should not judge those who do until you have done so yourself? ..

i do not know which downtown protest your talking about .. so i cannot comment on that one ..

i will indeed admit that are a lot of white  people that are allowed to join "some" protests .. and yep they only do it out of white guilt .. "white do gooders" as we call em .. and yep, usually they cause more harm than  any help .. .. and then there are the very dedicated non-ndn's that completely respect us and work very hard  to support us in our efforts to make a better life for our people .. guess you have to be involved in  the issues to be able to know which is which .. ..  ..

your a good kid kyle .. i have said that to you before .. beneath the typical arrogance of someone your age . .there is much more to you .. .. most adults do not take the time to look for it .. but i have always seen it in you .. .. bls gave you some good advice .. advice that i am sure your own Elders and Family have given you since the day you were old enough to comprehend .. .. OBSERVE, listen, learn .. perhaps do not be so quick to judge .. so quick to speak .. .. observe, listen, learn .. and that works both way kyle, for i really believe that we "old folks" can learn a lot from our young people as well! ..it is a two way street, but you have to realize that your elders have so many years of life experience and knowledge that sometime you must just shut up and listen, respect that they do know more than you in somethings, respect them .. .. ..  ..

hang in there kyle .. like i said there is more to you than maybe you want people to see .. .. ..

If im mistaken as to who I saw then I am sorry, but I saw only you and Mvskoke and that was it.....But there was a story tagged with the protest that were the same, where some radical ass "ndns" I use that lightly because it again is questionable, but prtesting downtown at some Gov office....idk?

but hey im light! I dont deny that, but living in oklahoma you get a quick eye, sorta like a radar for who is a skin and who isnt. and Oklahoma is really a mixture of diff tribes all of diff looks and features but heck! We sure do have an eye for each other! I can tell if a kid with lighter skin and lighter hair is ndn, there is a certain swagger and demeanor about us out here lol!

but hey Im not looking for the online community to peel away my layers, like much to my dismay you have been able to =)) haha. but as far as your question I started going to tribal meetings and getting my 50 seconds to speak, mostly about the meth issue and such. its a different beast out here, protests dont work and the state government does not medle in the affairs of the native community unless to hinder it then they are back on their merry way thinking that Tulsa and OKC are the only two cities and things in oklahoma.....

just saying its like going to dakota and trying to protest...whats that do for ya? theres a certain amount of action that needs to be done out here, mainly in the talking stages

but then on the cherokee side, buuuuuuuh nothing gets done! Chad Smith got an illegal 3rd term as chief because he changed the constituion.....(thats what happens when lawyers are your leaders) and just skims money.....nothing will get done untill Dictator Smith is out

[tachia]

If im mistaken as to who I saw then I am sorry, but I saw only you and Mvskoke and that was it.....But there was a story tagged with the protest that were the same, where some radical ass "ndns" I use that lightly because it again is questionable, but prtesting downtown at some Gov office....idk?

hmmm .. idk .. on that same day (as the Union mascot one), which was Leonard Peltiers birthday .. David Hill and SPIRIT organized a peaceful protest for Leonard's freedom, getting signatures on the petition etc .. but that was in downtown OKC not in Tulsa .. there were organized peaceful protests for LP all over the country on his birthday, usually are every year .. maybe it was that one? ..

but hey im light! I dont deny that, but living in oklahoma you get a quick eye, sorta like a radar for who is a skin and who isnt. and Oklahoma is really a mixture of diff tribes all of diff looks and features but heck! We sure do have an eye for each other! I can tell if a kid with lighter skin and lighter hair is ndn, there is a certain swagger and demeanor about us out here lol!

well i used to say that myself, still do, especially about Okla and NM! .. but i also learned a long time ago that sometimes you can be wrong when going by looks alone.. you really do not know someone until you talk to them ..

but hey Im not looking for the online community to peel away my layers, like much to my dismay you have been able to =)) haha. but as far as your question I started going to tribal meetings and getting my 50 seconds to speak, mostly about the meth issue and such. its a different beast out here, protests dont work and the state government does not medle in the affairs of the native community unless to hinder it then they are back on their merry way thinking that Tulsa and OKC are the only two cities and things in oklahoma.....

well i will just have to keep trying ..  it is good that your speaking up and standing up .. the meth (and other drugs) problem is certainly one that Needs to be fixed! .. protests don't work for some things and they do work for other things .. even with the protests, other avenues are attempted first, when they do not work sometimes the only option left is to protest .. we all know that the government does not care, yep they only meddle to hinder our efforts then go back to their cushy offices and lifestyle ..

just saying its like going to dakota and trying to protest...whats that do for ya? theres a certain amount of action that needs to be done out here, mainly in the talking stages

the talking stages always come first .. but what do you do when talking does no good? .. sometimes you have to take action .. and i do know that many changes have come from both talking and from direct action such as the protests .. i do think, as many other do, that we should all support each other as best we can .. if that means going to a protest to help out other ndns, what is wrong with that .. at any protest the larger the number the more attention .. and that is mainly what it is all about .. bringing attention to the things that need to be fixed, and bringing awareness to people who have no clue about the issues facing us .. with the mascot protests there is a lot of "education" that goes on in talking to people that approach and ask questions .. when another Nation puts out a plea for other ndns to show up and help them out are we to ignore that  plea? .. even if it is a plea to come support them at a protest? ..

but then on the cherokee side, buuuuuuuh nothing gets done! Chad Smith got an illegal 3rd term as chief because he changed the constituion.....(thats what happens when lawyers are your leaders) and just skims money.....nothing will get done untill Dictator Smith is out

agree! .. no one likes chad, dictator is right .. .. the epitome of the puppet tribal government/leader lining his pockets